Mavic R-Sys v Dura Ace WH-7850-C24-CL v Fulcrum Racing Zero

Ed McC

I am going to upgrade my wheels for my good bike when it comes back out in the spring.

I am considering one of the above three wheelsets.

Anyone have any reviews of these or any opinions as to which is best or are there other wheels I haven't considered?

Ed

redddraggon

Fulcrum Racing Zeros look the best. (That's the most important bit isn't it?)

Kléber

Mavic R-Sys are the most unaerodynamic wheelset possible, I think. If you're into slow riding, or want big time rigidity, fine. Otherwise, think twice. Why only these three wheelsets?

What sort of riding do you do and how much do you weigh? It would help before recommending something...

Ed McC

Kléber wrote:

Mavic R-Sys are the most unaerodynamic wheelset possible, I think. If you're into slow riding, or want big time rigidity, fine. Otherwise, think twice. Why only these three wheelsets?

What sort of riding do you do and how much do you weigh? It would help before recommending something...

I rode my good bike (Omega Alchemy) over 4,000 miles last summer, this included
1. 500 mile 4 day supported tour
2. Regular weekend fastish rides in a group, generally 50 - 60 miles, but sometimes 100+ and Sportifs. These rides are commonly hilly.
3. Mid week evening fast sessions in a group
3. Commutes to and from work when I feel like it.
4. Triathlons - sprint, standard and half ironman distance.

I weigh between 12st 2lbs and 12st 7lbs and am 6ft tall.

What other wheels should I be considering?

I only want clinchers.

Brian B

The R-Sys wheels cannot be that slow - Simoni rode them on the mountain stages in last years Giro. He seemed to go okay. Are aero dynamics for wheels really that important to most club cyclists - most poeple I meet out on the road do not really adopt the most areo dynamic postion available(I rarely see people down on the drops for any length of time) and surely this creates more drag than any wheel?

phil s

R-Sys are not worth it, do a search on the Weightweenies forum... IMO the Dura Ace wheels are the best. I am looking at getting these, great hubs with titanium freehub body, they run very smooth and fast and they weigh around 1380g.
Getting something simply because "it looks nice" is a dumb reason to get something. Look at what performs best.

Shavedlegs

I wonder about the R-SYS. Mavic have been making wheels for a very long time so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until I've ridden them. They are too different in concept to compare without a test ride.

I agree with Phil S, I like the Dura Ace a lot.

With the exception of the R-SYS which are unique, I don't think there is much too choose between the wheels in terms of performance. The Fulcrums look great and I've read good things, the Dura Ace are probably the best value. What about Shamal Ultras?

gkerr4

If budget allowed (and it clearly does in your case) id have the R-SYS without hesitation.


I think the whole "non-aerodynamic" thing is a load of crap put about by people who don't like mavic or something.

lets face it - carbon spokes! - how cool is that? I saw a set in Condor yesterday and they look amazing.

il_principe

I'm the proud owner of a pair of Fulcrum 0's and 1's and can highly recommend both. They're bombproof, light and spin up quickly. Can be tricky to fit tires to, however I've found that Conti GP4000S Black Chilli tires slide on without much hassle. Given Mavic's experience I'm sure the R-Sys are very good as well but I have never tried them. IMHO they are pig ugly though!

Kléber

Brian B wrote:

The R-Sys wheels cannot be that slow - Simoni rode them on the mountain stages in last years Giro. He seemed to go okay.

Let's face it, he'd beat most of us if was on a unicycle. Simoni is paid to advertise wheels, he is not selecting the finest kit in the world to assemble a unique bike.

Brian, you're right about being aero on the bike, but the point here is that ED MCC has a huge choice and he has to spend his own money. Why buy something that is slower than everything else, even if you're pottering along there's no point spending £x on some wheels that are slower than another pair of wheels?

So back to ED MCC's wheels now. You're heavier build so get something strong. You want something for faster rides. The Dura Ace are a good choice. Instead of Mavic's R-SYS, the Carbone clincher set might be better, they roll nicely if you ride on flatter roads but are heavier than the Dura Ace.

Kléber

gkerr4 wrote:

I think the whole "non-aerodynamic" thing is a load of crap put about by people who don't like mavic or something.

lets face it - carbon spokes! - how cool is that?

I'll sell you a carbon toothbrush if you like, yours for £50.

Seriously, Why should I spout "crap" about Mavic or even dislike them? They're a great company. I was quoting wind tunnel testing on the R-SYS. In a test of a lot of wheels, it came last. I know wind tunnel tests aren't the real world but it is worth considering the information they give us. The full article isn't up online yet but you can read an intro to it here: http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15441821.html

Rich.H

Hi Ed

I am looking at similar options to you. What wheels do you use at the moment?

Cheers

Rich

dbg

I'd include the Campag Shamal Ultra in that wish list, particularly as they now do a titanium colour version if you're not into gold! - very light and nobody ever has anything bad to say about them - oh yeah and they look fab.

Ed McC

Rich.H wrote:

Hi Ed

I am looking at similar options to you. What wheels do you use at the moment?

Cheers

Rich

Mavic Kysrium SSC-SL 2005 model. These are good wheels and I am sure some of you will think there is no need for an upgrade but I have done thousands of miles on these wheels, I have slight damage to the rim on the front which causes it to flex slightly and make a noise when climbing out of the saddle, and there is an annoying ticking from the rear wheel which nobody seems to be able to fix. So, I think I deserve a new pair and want the best out there, but don't think I want to stretch to the price of a pair of the new Lightweight Carbon Clinchers.

Doom

Shavedlegs wrote:

the Dura Ace are probably the best value.

While on face value they appear to be the best option I have heard and read opinions that they are not the stiffest wheel with strangely the back being softer than the front. This could impact on the performace of the wheel and than handling of the whole package.

Not trying to put anyone off as I am very interested in them but am waiting to hear more about them from people who have actually ridden them.

For the kind of money that you would spend on these it may be more worthwhile having a set of wheels built up specifically for your needs and you wouldnt even need to go with hugely exotic components to get near the claimed dura-ace weight.

pcd993

The dura ace carbon clincher wheels are not yet released - they are out in February - and I am not aware of anyone having tested them. They look light enough and very good value compared to the Mavics. The hubs are bound to be good too.

I have heard the Fulcrums are suited to the heavier rider and can feel a bit wooden?

powenb

I am also interested in a pair of the Dura-Ace wheels. They seem excellent value!!!
My LBS gave me this link http://thebiggestwheeltestinhistory.com/

dennisn

phil s wrote:

R-Sys are not worth it, do a search on the Weightweenies forum... IMO the Dura Ace wheels are the best. I am looking at getting these, great hubs with titanium freehub body, they run very smooth and fast and they weigh around 1380g.
Getting something simply because "it looks nice" is a dumb reason to get something. Look at what performs best.

I have no problem buying what preforms "best". My problem lies with "who defines best".
Is it you? Is it mavic? Is it Shimano? I doubt very seriously that it's "weigthweenies".
Bike magazines rate everything highly because they have to. As far as all the new
"styles" of top of the line wheels go the only difference that I can see is the obvious
physical appearance and a gram or two either way. So why not buy one because "it
looks nice"? They are all probably very good wheels. You say Dura Ace wheels "run
very smooth and fast". What testing facility did you get your infomation from? Sounds like
very typical advertising hype to me. Or are you saying that the others don't run smooth and fast? And who tested those wheels? Let me guess "weightweenies"? Where is
their testing facility anyway? And who does the "peer review" of their work? Or is
weightweenies a lot like you and it's all "in my opinion"? Which, by the way, I have no
problem with because this "is my opinion".

Dennis Noward

powenb

I have to agree here.
When you look at wheels in a certain price range, they are all going to be pretty much on par with each other.
Looks are a HUGE part of buying new kit.

Kléber

dennisn wrote:

Let me guess "weightweenies"? Where is their testing facility anyway? And who does the "peer review" of their work? Or is weightweenies a lot like you and it's all "in my opinion"? Which, by the way, I have no problem with because this "is my opinion".

Actually, my quote on the R-Sys being the most unaerodynamic wheelset was lifted direct from that site. A prevalent poster from that site, Adrien, has done wind tunnel testing.

You can see the data on weight weenies or direct at his excellent blog:
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15505311.html

aracer

The thing is, you pay a lot of money for them to look nice.

Best performing is actually quite easy to define given the things you're working against on a bike - some combination of aero and light, depending on how much climbing you're doing. It's not an opinion thing - based on solid facts. R-Sys are neither aero nor particularly light, hence the criticism. You might not get a lot for your money with a more aero or a lighter wheel, but at least you get something tangible.

aracer

The thing is, you pay a lot of money for them to look nice.

Best performing is actually quite easy to define given the things you're working against on a bike - some combination of aero and light, depending on how much climbing you're doing. It's not an opinion thing - based on solid facts. R-Sys are neither aero nor particularly light, hence the criticism. You might not get a lot for your money with a more aero or a lighter wheel, but at least you get something tangible.

dennisn

Kléber wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Let me guess "weightweenies"? Where is their testing facility anyway? And who does the "peer review" of their work? Or is weightweenies a lot like you and it's all "in my opinion"? Which, by the way, I have no problem with because this "is my opinion".

Actually, my quote on the R-Sys being the most unaerodynamic wheelset was lifted direct from that site. A prevalent poster from that site, Adrien, has done wind tunnel testing.

You can see the data on weight weenies or direct at his excellent blog:
http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15505311.html

I noticed that this site also sells wheels. Conflict of interest, maybe? Maybe not, but still
makes you wonder. I doubt that they will give any wheel a bad rap that they sell. I'm
sure if you called and asked about the R-Sys they would gladly sell it to you and
give you "glowing" reviews about what a great wheel it is and what a smart buyer
you are. It's a business that wants to sell wheels and like most they will tell you what
they think you want to hear.

Dennis Noward.

phil s

dennisn wrote:

You say Dura Ace wheels "run
very smooth and fast". What testing facility did you get your infomation from? Sounds like
very typical advertising hype to me. Or are you saying that the others don't run smooth and fast? And who tested those wheels? Let me guess "weightweenies"? Where is
their testing facility anyway? And who does the "peer review" of their work? Or is
weightweenies a lot like you and it's all "in my opinion"? Which, by the way, I have no
problem with because this "is my opinion".

I know the Dura Ace hubs ride smooth and fast because I've ridden them. I know the new wheel is very good because I've spoken to professionals who were given the prototype. I also know that when I made noises about how cool the R-SYS looked to a certain Barloworld rider, he made a face. So, on top of that anecdotal evidence and the links from Weightweenies to actual tests performed by the likes of Tour magazine and roue artisanale I have drawn an opinion.
I have also ridden Campag Eurus and I know that Campag lie about their weights. 100g off in that case. Mavic are also prone to telling a few prokies about wheel weights. Oh, and Fulcrums - why is it that Liquigas have used Boras re-stickered as Fulcrums?
At the end of the day, none of these wheels are shabby but I am pointing out that given the evidence the Shimano wheel offers most bang for buck.

Kléber

dennisn wrote:

I noticed that this site also sells wheels. Conflict of interest, maybe? Maybe not, but still makes you wonder. I doubt that they will give any wheel a bad rap that they sell. I'm sure if you called and asked about the R-Sys they would gladly sell it to you and
give you "glowing" reviews about what a great wheel it is and what a smart buyer you are. It's a business that wants to sell wheels and like most they will tell you what they think you want to hear.

I don't see much of a conflict as his site only sells handbuilt wheels. He doesn't sell the R-Sys!

Anyway, one guy is trying to decide on some wheels here. By all means criticise those of us trying to help him, but perhaps check your facts before making spurious suggestions about bias or not testing anything. Your "marketing hype" turns out to be independent windtunnel testing, your "conflict of interest" is virtually non-existent. Lobbing in conjecture isn't so helpful.

What wheelset would you recommend?

wildmoustache

I would also go for the Dura Ace of the ones you've listed.

There is a fair point being made by Dennis though that in reality the difference in aero-ness of these wheels is very small and for many if not all of us outweighed by our aesthetic preferences. At the end of the day it's which wheels will give the OP the most enjoyment that is the issue. I like the Fulcrum 0s aesthetically but the DAs are also nice in an understated way. Really don't like the look of the SYS. why the lime green????

I'd add Shamals to your list ... I can't see any disadvantage of them compared the the Zeros and they are a bit lighter.

il_principe

phil s wrote:

Oh, and Fulcrums - why is it that Liquigas have used Boras re-stickered as Fulcrums?
At the end of the day, none of these wheels are shabby but I am pointing out that given the evidence the Shimano wheel offers most bang for buck.

Well Campag own Fulcrum, and the Racing Speed wheels and Bora's are very similar, perhaps they simply didn't have enough Fulcrums to hand or something so had to use Bora's instead?

dennisn

Kléber wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I noticed that this site also sells wheels. Conflict of interest, maybe? Maybe not, but still makes you wonder. I doubt that they will give any wheel a bad rap that they sell. I'm sure if you called and asked about the R-Sys they would gladly sell it to you and
give you "glowing" reviews about what a great wheel it is and what a smart buyer you are. It's a business that wants to sell wheels and like most they will tell you what they think you want to hear.

I don't see much of a conflict as his site only sells handbuilt wheels. He doesn't sell the R-Sys!

Anyway, one guy is trying to decide on some wheels here. By all means criticise those of us trying to help him, but perhaps check your facts before making spurious suggestions about bias or not testing anything. Your "marketing hype" turns out to be independent windtunnel testing, your "conflict of interest" is virtually non-existent. Lobbing in conjecture isn't so helpful.

What wheelset would you recommend?

I would bet that the original poster(Ed McC) is thinking about buying a set of these wheels
because they caught his "eye", as opposed to other high end wheels, or they were in
his price range. Now he is asking for opinions. Not a bad idea, but in the end he is going
to face the facts that they are all really great wheels and will buy the one that he likes the
looks of best. Just like most of the rest of us. And why not? It's his money. Or maybe he
won't, and he will go with the most areo, lightest, strongest, if he can sift his way through
all the hype and unfounded claims that everyone will write in about. I'm betting on looks.
This arguement reminds me of my wife shopping for ski boots. When she asked the
ski shop guy selling the boots, what the difference between the various brands
were from a preformance aspect, he said "nothing really" and urged her to buy the color
that coodinated best with her ski outfit and fit the best.

Dennis Noward

Ed McC

Ok, so I should add Campag Shamal Ultra to the list of options. I hadn't considered these because my bike is full Dura Ace so I tend not to think of any Campag components, but I am happy to consider them.

There seems to be a lot of chat about how aero a wheel is and the importance or not of this. Should I therefore stretch a bit further and consider:
1. Zipp 303 or 404
2. Corima Aero Plus
3. Other Deep Section clinchers?

Given the type of riding that I do (see several posts back) and that I want an all round wheel that can do everything, what will make me as fast as possible (flat and hilly) but which are also comfortable.

Ed

Kléber

Here's my view, most deep section carbon clinchers aren't so good. The Zipp 404s for example, you're much better off with the tubular version, although this is fragile, you're getting no lightweight benefits from the Zipps, they still weigh in quite heavy as the clincher version. For the money, some Mavic Cosmics offer good value, some of the Bontragers too. Otherwise, think about tubs.

wildmoustache

You mention TTing ... I'd agree with Kleber. consider the cosmic carbones. I've spent some time on them and they are stiff. that's how they feel anyway. They are also very aerodynamic. Downside ... heavy. bike won't feel quite as hot to accelerate on. You've got nearly 400g additional weight on the Dura Ace.

Shimano are also coming out with a 50mm depth clincher that is a bit lighter. If you can wait till March.

handling in mountains and winds is not quite so good with these types of wheels.