BBC1 21:00 tonight

redvee

Watching the proggy about cyclists and road rage. Good to see that some cyclists are getting £30 on the spot fines for red light jumping but it needs to be done across the country not just London. I get it when I stop and soon contact will be made when I'm stopped and another cyclist passes through the redlight I'm stopped at.
Liked the coppers on bikes, TBH if one started chasing you, would you give them a run for their money and see if they could catch you? Bet they'd give up before they caught some of us :P

cberry

I thought maybe the over-played the 'battle' going on? Most cyclists cycle safely, most car drivers are aware of cyclists, instead of focusing on the 'battle' between road users maybe they should have just focused on 'bad' road users?

sean65

Very interesting program in highlighting the issue's but I'd have liked to hear from some analysts as to the reasons for the behavior and some solutions for the future.

I think it all boils down to selfishness. A human failing that I hate with a passion.

I drive in central London every day and I see every type of road user from cyclists to buses who all think their journey is more important than everyone else's.

It's comical to see how people become so easily upset by the smallest of incidents on the road.

I think the only way forward is to lead by example. I make a point of giving way to people in the hope that good road manners rubs off on the people that see it.

One thing is sure though, too many cyclists in London have a diabolical attitude and I've pushed one guy off his bike because he jumped a red light and startled an old lady crossing the road beside me.

I don't care what vehicle people choose to use but if they endanger other peoples lives I'll quite happily slap them down.

Looks like we're all starting to take out our frustrations on each other and not the governments and authorities that have created the frustrations.

pst88

I missed it, anyone know if it'll be repeated? I'm sure it'll turn up on one of those BBC digital channels that are just full of repeats.

thamacdaddy

You can view all bbc content via their iplayer now www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer its a great way to catch stuff you miss on the bbc channels.

Clever Pun

good program... it highlighted a lot of very selfish road users from all walks of life...the school run, the lorry/bus drivers not seeing the cyclists, the cyclist who jump red lights right in front of cops

I felt sorry for the old guy who couldn't even cross the road to pray...

the guy in the jeep was an utter co<ksmoker... I hope his wife flays him alive for the way he came across on tv

wai

Hilarious program that was all to painfully true.

My favourite bits was the woman who missed her train by being held up by the naked bike parade and her constant references to never having seen so many small willies in her life.

Also the kids marching across the red light stop, chanting that cyclists should stop...at the red light.

Unfortunately few people came away in a sympathetic light other than notable exceptions such as the poor woman who lost her cyclist daughter to a lorry that turned left across her and dragged her under. That was hard to watch and I cannot believe the idiot driver got away with it.

I would have liked to have seen more interviews with people who actually have the power to do something such as the government transport minister or the mayor rather than a 5 second soundbite of a Camden councillor being beset by outraged mums who have had their parking permits around the school ground being revoked.

A - W

A good programme with a serious message. It's a shame that many wont listen because it goes back to the basic of having the correct attitude for the road.

The funniest section though was the lady arguing with the parking attendent about his ticketing and admitting she gets a clothing allowance from her husband.
How the other half live.

hamboman

sean65 wrote:

It's comical to see how people become so easily upset by the smallest of incidents on the road.

I think the only way forward is to lead by example. I make a point of giving way to people in the hope that good road manners rubs off on the people that see it.

One thing is sure though, too many cyclists in London have a diabolical attitude and I've pushed one guy off his bike because he jumped a red light and startled an old lady crossing the road beside me.

Um, is anyone else noticing the irony here? Yes, you sound really polite, pushing people off their bikes, nice one - vigilante justice at its very best.

"Upset by the smallest incidents"? What, like being "startled"? That clearly required instant vengeance in the form of GBH.

mrchrispy

looked very much like that cement lorry overtook that lass and then turned across her - no way the driver was paying attention and he really should have been done for it. I really felt for the mother.

FatBlokeFromFelixstowe

mrchrispy wrote:

looked very much like that cement lorry overtook that lass and then turned across her - no way the driver was paying attention and he really should have been done for it. I really felt for the mother.

I agree, how an earth he got away with the blind spot argument when he had to overtake her to get her into the blind spot.

That part sent a real shiver down my spine. Felt really really sorry for the mother.

redddraggon

FatBlokeFromFelixstowe wrote:

mrchrispy wrote:

looked very much like that cement lorry overtook that lass and then turned across her - no way the driver was paying attention and he really should have been done for it. I really felt for the mother.

I agree, how an earth he got away with the blind spot argument when he had to overtake her to get her into the blind spot.

That part sent a real shiver down my spine. Felt really really sorry for the mother.

Personally I don't know how he live with himself. He killed her, it wasn't an accident, it was his fault.

spen666

Only saw a small bit of it, but it unfairly labelled all the critical mass participants as anarchists. Some may well be anarchists , some trustafarians, but many are ordinary citizens who like to ride their bikes and anr not anarchists and do not even sympathise with the anarchist cause or ideals

markpbeaumont

Thought the programme represented cyclist -commuters- quite fairly - i.e. some sensible ones but a lot of day-glo go-slow part-timers who give the rest of us, who actually cycle as a hobby and try to uphold cycling's reputation by not riding like *****s, a bad name.

I saw a numpty cyclist get pulled over by an estate police car this morning at about 8.20 on the Kennington Park Road eastbound for RLJing. A good sign - if the police are more visible, the amount of RLJing will decrease and we won't ultimately have to pay tax and get licenced - which I can see happening, at least in London.

bryanm

spen666 wrote:

Only saw a small bit of it, but it unfairly labelled all the critical mass participants as anarchists. Some may well be anarchists , some trustafarians, but many are ordinary citizens who like to ride their bikes and anr not anarchists and do not even sympathise with the anarchist cause or ideals

I'm not sure they helped anyones cause to be honest. They just got in everyone elses way and generally antagonised anyone else who simply wanted to get from A to B.

t4tomo

I had soemone in a car a few weeks ago who overtook me and then cut in front of me as he slowed down and pulled into a parking layby. HAd to brake and swerve t avoid him so I stopped level with his window to question the wisdom of his manouvere.

His reponse was "I didn't see you" where I felt obliged to point out that if he hadn't seen me why did he pull out to overtake me in the first place rather than just plow into the back of me.

The blind spot argument from the lorry driver cuts no ice with me, its just selfish impatient, drivers not wanting to slow momentarily to keep behind the bike for 10 yards or so before they turn left.

alfablue

FatBlokeFromFelixstowe wrote:

mrchrispy wrote:

looked very much like that cement lorry overtook that lass and then turned across her - no way the driver was paying attention and he really should have been done for it. I really felt for the mother.

I agree, how an earth he got away with the blind spot argument when he had to overtake her to get her into the blind spot.

That part sent a real shiver down my spine. Felt really really sorry for the mother.

Me too - it was tragic.

But this is a gross miscarriage of justice, if the Magistrates saw the CCTV that we saw, with the truck overtaking first, then they TOO have a blind spot for cyclists!!! Bloody infuriating!

But they sorted it all out in the end, placing a warning sign FOR CYCLISTS about turning lorries - no sign for lorry drivers, after all, they can't help it!!!

alfablue

t4tomo wrote:

I had soemone in a car a few weeks ago who overtook me and then cut in front of me as he slowed down and pulled into a parking layby. HAd to brake and swerve t avoid him so I stopped level with his window to question the wisdom of his manouvere.

His reponse was "I didn't see you" where I felt obliged to point out that if he hadn't seen me why did he pull out to overtake me in the first place rather than just plow into the back of me.

The blind spot argument from the lorry driver cuts no ice with me, its just selfish impatient, drivers not wanting to slow momentarily to keep behind the bike for 10 yards or so before they turn left.

I think that psycholigically, what is going on is that overtaking a slow cyclist, as soon as they are past they assume they are history! (Unfortunately, sometimes in another sense!) They just work on the assumption that cyclists are such slow speed vehicles that once past they are in the distance, a similar thing to cars that pull out infront of us - assuming we won't get to the junction for ages.

sean65

hamboman wrote:

Um, is anyone else noticing the irony here? Yes, you sound really polite, pushing people off their bikes, nice one - vigilante justice at its very best.

"Upset by the smallest incidents"? What, like being "startled"? That clearly required instant vengeance in the form of GBH.

Startled was understated. This poor old woman froze and shook like a jelly as the cyclist skidded towards her. If she'd have had a weak heart she could well have suffered more serious consequences than just the fright she got.

I don't make a habit of vigilante behavior but this particular guy was bang out of line not only in what he did but the attitude he showed afterwards.

As for GBH - you're talking crap.

Had it been a car driver my attitude would have been exactly the same.

Like I said in the original post, anyone, regardless of their chosen transport, who puts other peoples lives at risk is out of line.

Peasoup

I agree with alfablue.
A lot of drivers don't seem able to comprehend that a bike can travel at a pace closer to their speed rather than a walking pedestrian.
This is the explanation I've always considered for the number of times I've been cut up by vehicles pulling in or turning left, had doors opened immediately in my path etc etc - all from vehicles that had passed not seconds before.

Nigel-YZ1

They just work on the assumption that cyclists are such slow speed vehicles that once past they are in the distance,

My thoughts exactly.

I had a car go past me on Sunday, already indicating left (nearly took my elbow off) 75 yards from the junction, and braking. For the last 20 yards before the junction he was in my way- seems he couldn't turn a 90 degree left at my 30mph.
I'd say the same thing happens on half the occasions that I come down that way.

The cement truck sent shivers through me - I had the same situation with a single decker bus two years ago. He didn't want to wait so pulled alongside me and turned. I was lucky that I had a subtle sign he might do it - namely the whacking great orange indicator flashing 12 inches from my right shoulder as he turned.

I thought the police lining one junction and pulling everyone that broke the rules was a great idea, but it shouldn't have stopped with RLJ'ers. It should be done at random locations all over the country, stopping any type of road user - even pedestrians. It would remind people that there is someone watching.

As for the school runners - that must be fun to watch every morning! Double yellow line every street, and provide nice big american style yellow school buses. But for god's sake don't let a private company run them.

cee

I thought the programme painted every group of road users as self-interested, ignorant and stupid.

I mean.......putting kids in a van to take them 400 yards.
I mean.......Motor Vehicles ignoring yellow hatch boxes and no right turn signs.
I mean.......Cyclists red light jumping and moaning when they get caught.

To be honest, I reckon if you put any demonstration for anything on the streets of london that has enough support, all of the traffic who cannot move because of it are gonna make comments like those made duh.

When I was a kid, I walked to school (almost 2 miles) from day 1 of primary 1 (and granted I didn't live in the centre of London), but 400 yards.......come on.

And what about the cycle courier kicking up f**k with the police after getting stopped RLJing. Tuff sh*t bubba......if it was a car you would be the first to complain, so take it.

So......for me all the programme did was feed the war attitude. It offered little or no solutions to any of the problems raised and painted every group involved as selfish.

Cyclegent

I had to laugh when the copper said to the courier with the freak out hairdo, 'don't get so stressed, your hair might fall out'.

I felt very sorry for the poor woman whose daughter was killed. Realistically the only thing you can do to prevent this is always give a quick check over your right shoulder when approaching any left turning. This becomes second nature after a while.

Parkey

I missed this. Does anyone know where I might be able to watch it? Can't seem to find it on iPlayer.

hamboman

sean65 wrote:

hamboman wrote:

Um, is anyone else noticing the irony here? Yes, you sound really polite, pushing people off their bikes, nice one - vigilante justice at its very best.

"Upset by the smallest incidents"? What, like being "startled"? That clearly required instant vengeance in the form of GBH.

As for GBH - you're talking crap.

He sounds like a bit of a t w a t, but did you really have to push him off his bike?!

Clever Pun

hamboman wrote:

sean65 wrote:

hamboman wrote:

Um, is anyone else noticing the irony here? Yes, you sound really polite, pushing people off their bikes, nice one - vigilante justice at its very best.

"Upset by the smallest incidents"? What, like being "startled"? That clearly required instant vengeance in the form of GBH.

As for GBH - you're talking crap.

He sounds like a bit of a t w a t, but did you really have to push him off his bike?!

he he was bothered it could get you charged with assault... but he'd be a pansy, a man would have got up and chinned you.

discurio

i felt terrible watching that poor girl with the cement truck. dont think i'll let the missus see this.
as for the guy getting arrested a friend knows him and he said they had a warrant for something else.

alfablue

Cyclegent wrote:

IRealistically the only thing you can do to prevent this is always give a quick check over your right shoulder when approaching any left turning. This becomes second nature after a while.

Sadly that wouldn't have helped, I think the truck partly overtook her then made the turn, so I am sure she was well aware of its presence. Perhaps if she had been cycling in the primary position the truck would have needed to make a more explicit manouvre in overtaking her, and may have just hung back given the turning was imminent, however taking up the primary position can lead to all sorts of abuse...

flybywire

Missed this prog'..

just checked http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer & it doesn't appear to be there.

Only TopGear & question time etc
:? :

thamacdaddy

You are right thats weird I thought they carried full listings...might only be series etc?

As for the women I agree with everyone else the fact the lorry overtook her I think negates the fact he couldn't see in the blind spot. Something tells me they were lucky that day in court or there is seriously something wrong with the system. The other option is we could of course not seen a crucial bit of the video which showed something else?

I can understand he may not be able to judge speed but he should have been able to have a rough idea from being behind her and its no real excuse in my opinion. Defo have me even more weary now of the same.

I also liked to see the crack down on RLJ as I see so many everyday it really does get me annoyed. It also makes me put more effort to beat them in the commuter race!!!! :twisted:

sean65

Clever Pun wrote:

he he was bothered it could get you charged with assault... but he'd be a pansy, a man would have got up and chinned you.

Wrong. A man would have stopped at the lights and not shouted abuse at the pensioner.

Look, I see about a 100 cyclists a day go through red lights, it normally is dangerous but no one gets hurt. This guy got what he deserved and a lot of abuse from other people as he got up. He didn't have a leg to stand on. Was it necessary? No. Was it justified? Who care's.

In central London I cycle, ride motorbikes and drive cars. I don't have the pleasure of being so single minded that I can only see one point of view. But whatever transport I'm on I have to be aware of what's around me and to do this on a bike it means swinging your head round now and then. There's a lot of bad attitude cyclists that don't look before the cross the road in front of cars etc to make a right turn. There's a lot of four wheeled transport that tries to take me down when i'm cycling.

The 'them and us' mentality is crap. The truth is that there are loads of dickheads out there driving cars, taxi's, buses, lorries and bicycles.