Training for the Etape? - Get on your MTB.

bahzob

Just a word of advice from personal experience to those seeking training advice for long gruelling days like the etape.

Round about this time of year its good to forsake the roads and get out on a MTB. Apart from being more naturally suited to the weather this time of year it also gives some good training benefits:
- Its hard work, even on the flat, especially if its muddy. No joke but a two hour ride last weekend was tougher than either of the climbs of the Aubisque or Tourmalet I did earlier this year.
- The longer you go the harder its gets as the bike (and you) get clogged up. If you can keep pedalling any road bike will seem like its filled with hydrogen.
- To add to the effort there will be short intense periods of effort thrown in on insane inclines or when your wheels sink 6 inches into a quagmire. You will have a lot of incentive to get through these without toppling over as restarting is not an option.
- You get a full body workout as your arms and upper body will have to help you up over and around obstacles.
- Your bike handling skills will improve.
- Pedalling action will also improve, it has to in order to keep going in mud
- Last but not least its a good workout for the mind. You need to keep your wits about you and doing a 3-4 hour ride on a cold muddy day will make even the toughest sportive seem like a cakewalk.

chrisw12

Great post Bahzob.

I've switched to mtb this month, I was getting bored of commuting on fixed through loads of traffic, so decided to go over the mountain instead.

I find it very demanding as I have poor bike handling skills and it gives a good workout for the reasons you said.

One thing I'd like to add on, is about the cadence. I'm a masher in the low 70's range, every winter I switch to fixed to try and 'cure' it, but as I drop the gears, all I find is I ride the same cadence but slower speed. Now today I noticed that my cadence seemed to be higher after using a mtb exclusively for the last week. When climbing in the mud, you have to sit down and spin a relatively low gear and this 'training' seems to have had a knock on effect.

Trouble is during the season shall I kick the mtb into touch and get back on the road to get the speficity back for tt's.

pjm-84

Snap,

Plus throw in a bit of cyclo cross.

popette

That's really interesting.
i've been out on MTB before but usually with a toddler on the back. How do MTBs cope with ice? I might use it as alternative in icy conditions if they stay upright more easily.
I have only used MTB on roads up until now - wouldn't have a clue about where to go off road though

chrisw12

popette wrote:

That's really interesting.
i've been out on MTB before but usually with a toddler on the back. How do MTBs cope with ice? I might use it as alternative in icy conditions if they stay upright more easily.
I have only used MTB on roads up until now - wouldn't have a clue about where to go off road though

I don't think that anything copes with the odd bit of ice that well. The difference with mtb I found is that you'd be going so slow off road that you can see it comming and even if you did fall at least you aint going to have a car trampling on you.

Where to go off road? Well I'm a bit spoilt for choice 8) where I live. What I did find though that being a roady, that anything technical for me is not much fun. I'm too nervous of any damage and I'm always reminding myself that I'm out training and therefore should be doing relatively fast non technical stuff.

ColinJ

popette wrote:

How do MTBs cope with ice? I might use it as alternative in icy conditions if they stay upright more easily.

I went out on my MTB on New Year's day 6 or 7 years ago and crashed heavily on ice 3 times in an hour so I'd say not at all well! Unless of course you have studded tyres in which case you'd stand a good chance of being okay.

popette wrote:

I have only used MTB on roads up until now - wouldn't have a clue about where to go off road though

It's a bit damp and grotty over this neck of the woods at the moment but you ought to head over here some time in the summer. We are blessed with some great mountain biking in West Yorkshire.

I can really recommend the Mary Towneley Loop which passes along many of my favourite local bridleways. It's a tough 1 day offroad ride but you could have a very nice mountain biking weekend if you split it over 2 days. Definitely not the terrain for having a child onboard though... :shock: !

pjm-84

Yep I crashed off road twice over the Christmas break.

Once in a cross race on Boxing Day although I had a rather soft landing in the undergrowth and then a bit of an hum dinger on my MTB at speed a few days later. Luckily my helmet took the full brunt of the accident, along with my safety glasses. Got away quite likely although I was dazed for 5 -10 seconds.

Time to replace the helmet!

320DMsport

This is really interesting as you roadies say you find MTB good exercise for your road endevours.

As a MTB myself and ride mostly off road i'm contemplating a 24 hour event, all MTB buddies are saying do road miles to get your fitness for MTB race!

So we are road biking for MTB fitness and you guys are MTB for road fitness?

So is basically getting out on our bikes the key for fitness or has anyone got any tips for endurance racing??

ColinJ

320DMsport wrote:

This is really interesting as you roadies say you find MTB good exercise for your road endevours.

As a MTB myself and ride mostly off road i'm contemplating a 24 hour event, all MTB buddies are saying do road miles to get your fitness for MTB race!

So we are road biking for MTB fitness and you guys are MTB for road fitness?

So is basically getting out on our bikes the key for fitness or has anyone got any tips for endurance racing??

I don't consider myself a roadie or a mountain biker - I'm just a cyclist! Why create barriers between myself and other cyclists by choosing a label ?

Cycling a lot gets you fit for cycling a lot. Specific types of cycling get you more fit for those specific types of cycling. However - I think as far as endurance MTB cycling goes, there is a very good reason for doing a lot of your training on the road. Unless you have a very plush full-suspension MTB or are riding your MTB in very tame terrain, endurance MTB riding will absolutely batter your body! You would probably have to give yourself a lot of time between long MTB rides to recover properly from each one. You could get a lot more time in on a road bike before you suffered to the same extent. I also think that MTB riding is inherently more hazardous so you are more likely to pick up an injury in training. My bike handling is pretty good so I fall off on the road very infrequently - once every few years. I fall off my MTB several times a year.

My longest MTB ride was a 40 mile offroad event in very hilly terrain (plus a 12 mile ride each way on road to/from the event). That was the hardest thing I've ever done on a bike but it was only 10 hours in total. [Extremely long write-up of it here if you are interested]. My longest road ride was equally challenging in a roadie sense - 142 miles across West Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Staffordshire and down into Warwickshire. It took me nearly 13 hours but it felt nowhere near as hard as the MTB event [a long write-up of that here]. 24 hours on a MTB - phew, respect :shock: !

In a typical year I probably do 2 to 3 hours on my road bikes for every 1 I spend on my mountain bike but those mountain biking hours are still important to me. For me it is not a question of training - I don't race. It's just that it is nice to get away from the traffic for a while and to get to places that road bikes can't cope with. It is also safer chatting to mates when I don't have to contend with the local chavs trying to mow me down every 5 minutes.

If you are a roadie who has never ridden a mountain bike, why not give it a go? Hire or borrow a decent MTB for a day . Don't put yourself off by riding a tractor of a bike. I hired a bike which weighed about 40 lbs; it had faulty brakes and gears and worst of all - it sported the saddle from hell :shock:. After that I didn't go near a MTB for many years. Go somewhere scenic but not too technical - there's nothing like a major injury to diminish one's enthusiasm for a new activity ! Unless you think you are immune to bad weather, choose a nice sunny dry day. After a day bombing around forests or hills, tell me that you didn't enjoy it! MTBs and their knobbly tyres feel sluggish on tarmac, but on dusty/rocky singletrack, they come to life!

If you are a mountain biker who has never ridden a decent road bike - do so ASAP! The road equivalent of the mountain biker's singletrack is probably descending a long hill at 45 mph with a huge grin on your face. Riding a good road bike away from traffic on decent tarmac is grrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

320DMsport

Cheers Colin!

Yes i didn't mean to pigeonhole MTB riders and Road riders, i was just separating the different info i've been collecting from diff sources!

I soley mountain bike with 85 percent being off road in the Lakedistrict but i've been starting road riding the MTB to get miles in my legs but i'm thinking of getting slicks for my old Kona MTB to use for the road although i don't mind plugging around on the off road tyres.

I used to road bike alot in my younger days but that bike would be too small i would say, it's an old Claud Butler that used to be on tub tyres! Still in the attic at my parents i think!

I'd love a road bike but my i replaced my MTB in October this year for a Trek Fuel EX9 08 so no funds for fresh bikes at the mo! Missus would kill me!!

But i always look at road bikes in the LBS as they are a thing of beauty and amazingly light...great!

ColinJ

320DMsport wrote:

I soley mountain bike with 85 percent being off road in the Lakedistrict but i've been starting road riding the MTB to get miles in my legs but i'm thinking of getting slicks for my old Kona MTB to use for the road although i don't mind plugging around on the off road tyres.

I fitted slicks to my old MTB and gave it to my ex and she now really enjoys riding it on the road. The single biggest improvement you can make to an MTB for road riding is to get rid of the knobblies. I once rode my knobbly-tyred MTB 16 miles to a bike shop to order my new road bike then did the 16 miles back, all on road, and it felt like really hard work - at least 50% harder than on my racing bike. I suppose that it doesn't matter quite so much if you are using your rides for training purposes because one way or the other you have to make a certain level of effort. Still, I think that it's more fun to ride quickly than it is to ride slowly 8) !

The old bike I mentioned above was originally equipped with rigid forks, but I'd changed them for suspension forks after getting battered on my off-road rides. When I decided to give the bike to the ex I sold the suspension forks and put the original rigid ones back on - you don't need heavy, energy-sapping suspension forks on the road, although again - effort is effort however you put it in. I just think you can enjoy yourself more while training if you don't feel like you are fighting your bike the whole time.

Are you doing the 24 hour MTB event solo or in a relay team? I can imagine doing 6 hours worth of MTB racing spread out over 24 hours but the thought of doing 24 hours straight is scary! 13 hours on the road was hard enough for me.

clanton

Interesting stuff above! I ride MTB and road and agree broadly with whats already been said. IMO MTB riding is great for bike handling skills, overall body strength, improving high cadence riding and smoothing your pedal stroke. But for cardiovacular fitness and strength road riding has made a huge difference for me. I think its the ability to get your heart rate in your target zone and keep it there for as long as you need for a full workout that does it.

milese

I'm more into MTBs but I've just bought a road bike to commute on, and for fitness.

I enjoy MTBing much more, as there is generally nicer scenary and more variety of terrain, with technical sections to keep you amused. Road riding is a bit samey.

For me road riding is better for fitness though because nothing stops you from riding. If you go out for an hour you ride for an hour, with the MTB you might be pushing your bike around obsticles, opening gates, going over styles, working out which way to go etc.

For me MTBing is much more of a communal thing, so to go for a ride you need to organise your mates, stick the bike in the car and drive somewhere and then spend ages cleaning the bike, your clothes and yourself.

I can just whip the road bike out of the garage to ride for an hour whenever I have a free slot, you can also ride places that you would previously have driven,which makes it a bit more useful and adds a purpose.

Its all horses for courses, and as they say, variety is the spice of life!

320DMsport

ColinJ wrote:

320DMsport wrote:

I fitted slicks to my old MTB and gave it to my ex and she now really enjoys riding it on the road. The single biggest improvement you can make to an MTB for road riding is to get rid of the knobblies. I once rode my knobbly-tyred MTB 16 miles to a bike shop to order my new road bike then did the 16 miles back, all on road, and it felt like really hard work - at least 50% harder than on my racing bike. I suppose that it doesn't matter quite so much if you are using your rides for training purposes because one way or the other you have to make a certain level of effort. Still, I think that it's more fun to ride quickly than it is to ride slowly 8) !

The old bike I mentioned above was originally equipped with rigid forks, but I'd changed them for suspension forks after getting battered on my off-road rides. When I decided to give the bike to the ex I sold the suspension forks and put the original rigid ones back on - you don't need heavy, energy-sapping suspension forks on the road, although again - effort is effort however you put it in. I just think you can enjoy yourself more while training if you don't feel like you are fighting your bike the whole time.

Are you doing the 24 hour MTB event solo or in a relay team? I can imagine doing 6 hours worth of MTB racing spread out over 24 hours but the thought of doing 24 hours straight is scary! 13 hours on the road was hard enough for me.

Been into my LBS today and i can get two slicks for my old Kona for 25 quid so i'm going to get it back out the shed and use it for road training!

I agree it's much easier to get out on the road than trail off in the car to go off road with my MTB.

Yes i'm doing a 24 hour solo! was going to do it in a pair but he's backed out.

Yes i know it's mad but i am mad and the worst that can happen is i don't finish but i'll give it a hell of a go!!

So lots of road training for me i think, my Kona is a Hard tail with 100mm travel forks so it's not a mega heavy bike.

I'm looking forward to getting out on slicks!!

ColinJ

320DMsport wrote:

So lots of road training for me i think, my Kona is a Hard tail with 100mm travel forks so it's not a mega heavy bike.

I'm looking forward to getting out on slicks!!

You'll need to put more pressure in the slicks than you are used to putting in for knobblies. The higher the pressure (within reason) the better the slicks will roll. The lower the pressure (within reason) the greater the comfort. I usually go about midway between the maximum and minimum pressures marked on the tyres.

Since you are sticking with suspension forks, my final suggestion is to lock out the suspension (if you can) so you don't have the front of the bike bobbing up and down every time you get out of the saddle. Failing that, set 'em up as stiff as you can (maximum fork pressure and/or maximum damping).

Let us know you get on with the 24 hour event. Which one is it by the way?

320DMsport

Thanks for the tips colin and sorry for hijacking the thread!!

The forks don't lock out so that's a good idea to firm them up!

Yes i'll get a fair bit of pressure in them and see how it feels.

The event isn't until May so i have 5 months to train, it's the Wild Boar 24 in Girizedale forest.

I'm doing abit of hill climb practice on a 14 percent incline hill thats a mile long, go up and down it a few times on my ride route.

It's going to be a 10 mile lap i believe so maybe do a lap and rest a little and do another.

How many road miles of hours do you think i should be aiming for in total on one ride out nearer the race?

Obviously i won't be riding 24 hours solid as i don't have a blue cape and wear red undies outside my clothes!!

whyamihere

Intervals would probably be better training on the road bike than just seeing how far you can go for a mountain bike race. For example, warm up, then go absolutely hell for leather for 2 minutes. Slow down and relax for 2 minutes, then repeat. Do that as many times as possible, the last couple of intervals should REALLY hurt. It's the same kind of thing you're doing going up that hill, but you need to hit it as hard as you possibly can, then rest a bit. Doing this will condition you better for the mountain bike race, as it will b around an hour of great exertion on your lap, followed by a rest, followed by an hour of exertion, and so on.

320DMsport

whyamihere wrote:

Intervals would probably be better training on the road bike than just seeing how far you can go for a mountain bike race. For example, warm up, then go absolutely hell for leather for 2 minutes. Slow down and relax for 2 minutes, then repeat. Do that as many times as possible, the last couple of intervals should REALLY hurt. It's the same kind of thing you're doing going up that hill, but you need to hit it as hard as you possibly can, then rest a bit. Doing this will condition you better for the mountain bike race, as it will b around an hour of great exertion on your lap, followed by a rest, followed by an hour of exertion, and so on.

Yes great idea and sorry again for hi jacking the thread!

The climb i use is fairly steep and i end up going down to the highest gear to push as hard as i can with off road tyres on, i maybe able to push a lower gear on the slicks?

It's been taking me around 10 min mark to climb this hill, then i coast to the bottom and repeat, the second run i sometimes beat my first run as i time it but the third drops a little.

Suppose some distance riding would be good to get me used to being in the saddle for so long but the climb is a good workout and Grizedale is quite hilly.

Anymore tips would be apreciated!

ColinJ

320DMsport wrote:

Thanks for the tips colin and sorry for hijacking the thread!!

Oops - I'd forgotten that it wasn't your thread! Anyway, it's all about fitness and cycling isn't it so I'm sure that bahzob won't really mind.

320DMsport wrote:

The event isn't until May so i have 5 months to train, it's the Wild Boar 24 in Girizedale forest.

I'm doing a bit of hill climb practice on a 14 percent incline hill thats a mile long, go up and down it a few times on my ride route.

It's going to be a 10 mile lap i believe so maybe do a lap and rest a little and do another.

How many road miles of hours do you think i should be aiming for in total on one ride out nearer the race?

As I said before - the thought of tackling a 24 hour MTB event would scare me, even with rests between laps! Well, I suppose 2 hour rests between laps would be okay because then it would amount to only (!) 8 hours of riding in total which I would be able to cope with. I assume that you are aiming for more like 16 hours of riding though?

320DMsport wrote:

How many road miles of hours do you think i should be aiming for in total on one ride out nearer the race?

Let me put it to you this way... If I was going to tackle that MTB event I'd want to be fitter than I was last summer and then I did a 230 km road ride with over 3,000m of climbing in just under 13 hours. Here's a suggestion - build up to that sort of level from now to the end of April and then test your fitness by taking part in this hilly audax event (not too far from the Lake District):

The Tan Hill 200, Padiham (near Burnley), 27 April 2008. 210 km, 3,700m of climbing. Great scenery and 13 hours of daylight to do it in. That implies being able to average just over 16 kph including stops over a long distance. Entry details here. You don't have to be an audax member to enter, but if you are not you will have to pay £1-£2 extra for event insurance.

I don't think you'd want to be doing much more than that distance before your event or you'd probably still be tired when you get to it.

Perhaps do a couple of 8 hour 100 mile road rides in the weeks after that but make sure to take it fairly easy the week before the Wild Boar event so you are fit and raring to go on the day.

You'll need to eat and drink a lot during a 24 hour MTB event . I would get through at least 10 litres of carbo drink, maybe more, plus at least two normal days worth of food as well. You may need more or less, but you have plenty of time to find out what your needs are.

bahzob

Happy to have thread hijacked..finding the advice interesting. Think one should try a little of everything and 24 hour MTB event looks fun. Bit late for 2008 plans as most weekends taken up with sportives but may think about it for 2009. Doing the LEL then so will need some sleep depravation training.

So 320DMsport be sure to let us know how it goes...

bahzob

Happy to have thread hijacked..finding the advice interesting. Think one should try a little of everything and 24 hour MTB event looks fun. Bit late for 2008 plans as most weekends taken up with sportives but may think about it for 2009. Doing the LEL then so will need some sleep depravation training.

So 320DMsport be sure to let us know how it goes...

320DMsport

Cheers guys i will!

I was looking at getting around 12 litres of SIS Go which i use now along with energy bars, gels and maybe 6 litres of PSP22 to drink while resting.

Prob munch fruit loaf, porridge, flapjack and anything else i fancy.

Most my off road rides are about 4-5 hours at the mo, i find i recover quite quickly after a steep climb providing i hydrated and carbed up properly the day before.

I'm not sure colin i'll get to any other events before the one in May as the is a 28 mile MTB race i want to do in June and i have my daughter over most weekends and work most Saturdays so i've got to plan carefully.

I think if i can build up the distance over the next three months on the road as i'll be doing quite a few off road rides too.

If i could do 16 hours riding with breaks i'd be more than happy.

Plus are the Audax road events? do you get many entering these on MTB's with slicks??

ColinJ

320DMsport wrote:

I was looking at getting around 12 litres of SIS Go which i use now along with energy bars, gels and maybe 6 litres of PSP22 to drink while resting.

Prob munch fruit loaf, porridge, flapjack and anything else i fancy.

That little lot should keep you going, in both senses of the word... I find it hard after about 10 hours or so to stomach things that I enjoyed eating 6 or 7 hours earlier, but as you know, it is important to keep on eating and drinking regularly.

320DMsport wrote:

Most my off road rides are about 4-5 hours at the mo, i find i recover quite quickly after a steep climb providing i hydrated and carbed up properly the day before.

It sounds as though you are pretty fit. I reckon 2 hours offroad is roughly equivalent to 3 onroad, certainly where I ride anyway. There is however still a big difference between 5 hours and 16, even though you will be taking regular breaks. That's why I was suggesting a long road ride before the event.

I actually think that taking a rest every lap might not be the best strategy because you'd be regularly lying about in damp clothes or having to change a lot. Then you'd have to warm up again every time you got back on the bike. I'd rather do something like 5 hours on, 1/2 hour off twice, then just do as many laps as I could each time after that, taking whatever rest I needed, and aiming to ride one final lap to complete the 24 hours. It would be a bit of an anticlimax to collapse after 20 hours and miss the finish of the event!

320DMsport wrote:

I'm not sure colin i'll get to any other events before the one in May as the is a 28 mile MTB race i want to do in June and i have my daughter over most weekends and work most Saturdays so i've got to plan carefully.
with slicks??

Hmm, I can see your problem, but I'd certainly want to have done 12 hours of riding in a day before I attempted 16. It's a big step to more than double your longest day's riding in one go. You could always do a similar distance by yourself on one of your days off, and not bother signing up for an official event. It's just easier to motivate yourself when you have company.

320DMsport wrote:

I think if i can build up the distance over the next three months on the road as i'll be doing quite a few off road rides too.

If I was doing the event, I'd try to build up to so many hours per day, not per week. What I'm getting at is that if riding, say, 4 days a week, it might be better to do something like 3 * 3 hour rides and 1 * 7 hours rather than 4 * 4. You are already fit enough to do 4 hour rides so doing lots of them is probably just going to tire you out. without boosting your endurance that much.

320DMsport wrote:

Plus are the Audax road events? do you get many entering these on MTB's with slicks??

Audax UK website. I think there might be one or two Audax events that have some offroad 'roughstuff', but they are almost exclusively road events. They range from the fairly short (sub 100 km) to the mind-bogglingly long (1000+ km :shock: !!!).

The thing that differentiates Audax events from races and sportives is that maximum and minimum average speeds are specified. These include any stops you make. If you take a long cafe stop, you'd have to ride faster after that to bring your average speed back up. On longer events the limits are usually 30 kph and 15 kph, but they can be different. The maximum speed limit is supposed to stop the events turning into races, but most people who aren't racers would find it hard to reach that limit anyway - the best I've managed over 200 km is 20 kph. The minimum limit is to stop things getting silly. If you were an event organiser, you wouldn't want to hang about in a church hall somewhere for over 20 hours waiting for stragglers averaging 10 kph to come back. If you are fit enough to ride 200 km comfortably, it isn't asking much to require you to do 15 kph (just over 9 mph).

I think it is fair to say that you don't get many mountain bikes on the 200 km events. I've seen tandems, tricycles, recumbent bikes, full-on carbon racers, lightweight aluminium road bikes, hybrid bikes, and very old heavy steel-framed touring bikes.

I have seen lots of mountain bikes on 100 km audax rides though. I've also seen mountain bikes on the 'Manchester 100', but that is a 100 mile charity ride, not an audax. You'd probably get a few people ride up to you and ask you about your bike. You might get one or two teasing you and suggesting that you try a road bike next time, but I think that you'd get nothing but respect if you did a 200 on your MTB, because everyone would know that you'd had to put more effort in than if you'd had a lighter bike.

I'd like to know how you get on with your training and the event itself, so why not post some updates here from time to time?

320DMsport

Yes Colin i will if your interested, thanks for all the tips.

I think your idea on stratergy is probably right, as i'll just be getting into it then stopping and cooling down whilst hot as it could be warm mid May or it could be pouring with rain!

I mean if i can chug along for for 3 laps at a time then rest as a 10 mile lap in Grizedale could take me anything upto 1.5 hours depending on how hilly the course is.

Take a break and get some carbs etc.

I was basing my fluid intake on 500ml a hour depending as i sweat quite alot when riding and i dehydrate quickly in warmer weather.

I'm getting the slicks on Monday and new brake pads for the old Kona, be interesting to see what my average speed alters too with them as i normally average 11-13 mph on road with the knobblies on.

I'll do a couple of hours on Monday as i'll build the hours up over the next few weeks and maybe start interval training up my steep hill in about 8 weeks?

I think it will take time to build upto doing 100km on my MTB in one stint on the road.....do you ride solid for that amount of time? or take the odd break?

I think doing longer stints on my MTB event i'll have to eat more whilst riding which i find a pain with MTB gloves on and bumpy terrain fiddling around in pockets etc!

Your right about road riding with someone to keep you going, don't mind doing MTB routes on my own as i stop less than when in a group.

Thanks again.

P.s i read rice pudding is good to eat at theses events? anyone tried it?

Also home made brownies as there was a recipe in What MTB mag which i tried and tasted good.

ColinJ

320DMsport wrote:

I think it will take time to build upto doing 100km on my MTB in one stint on the road.....do you ride solid for that amount of time? or take the odd break?

I think doing longer stints on my MTB event i'll have to eat more whilst riding which i find a pain with MTB gloves on and bumpy terrain fiddling around in pockets etc!

Your right about road riding with someone to keep you going, don't mind doing MTB routes on my own as i stop less than when in a group.

To be honest, when riding alone I tend to make minimal stops. I just have a pee, fill up my bottles, fix whatever needs fixing, whatever, and move on. On a 100 km ride I'd probably have a couple of 5-10 minute stops. Like you, I prefer to eat when not moving, but I wouldn't stop for long to do it. I can keep going for a long time at a steady pace, but stop/start all the time doesn't work for me.

Most of my friends prefer to stop more often, but many of them are they are younger and fitter than me and can make up time when they get moving again. I don't like sitting around for too long when sweaty, and I sweat a lot when riding! I also find that I'm taking longer and longer to warm-up as I get older so once I've got going, I prefer to keep going. My legs start to go stiff if I sit around for more than about 20 minutes.

320DMsport

Had a off road spin out today!

Did 2 hours off and on road 20 miles, very muddy, boggy and wet, averaged 10mph as it was hilly in places.

Got the slick and fitted them to my old bike....looks kind of weird a MTB with slicks on at 26x1.5.

So Next outing will be a 2 hour road ride on Thursday and a weights session thrown in this week.

Felt quite strong today so hopefully build up!

pjm-84

I managed 3hr off roading on Saturday and really enjoyed it.

Did 207km on the Sunday on my road bike and struggled a little bit as my legs were a little tired. Managed to complete the ride in 8hrs riding on my own.

The crucial thing in endurance riding is food / fluid intake. I suffered a little bit on the hilly section on the Sunday ride at around 120km because I was dehydrating!

Up to that point I had consumed around 4 high calorie bars and 3 or 4 gels plus a sandwich at the first stop and around 2.5litres of fluid. I thought it was enough and blamed the MTBing the previous day and not replacing the calories or fluid I consumed then.

My legs were also started to lacate on the climbs although I was running a 39x25 combination climbing in the Cotswolds and weigh in at 15st 12lbs. I came to the conclusion that I was in trouble and had probably gone a little too hard and would now pay the price over the remaining distance

At the 145km mark I stopped and had a triple sandwich and two large bottles of Lucozade and the transformation was instant . I covered the last lumpy 62km in 2hr 20mins and finished strongly.

For the ride I had ignored my heart rate monitor. The readings had been too high relative to what I'm use to. For me this implies dehydration. If the readings are low then I'm starting to bonk. In the section I suffered my heart rate was high and I missed the tale tell sign of dehydration

320DMsport

Hell PJM 3 hours on the sat then 125 miles on the Sunday, you must be fairly fit!!

I've just fitted the slicks yesterday to my old bike, on had time for a 10 mile spin as i was working so short on time, but what a diff on tarmac just gliding along.

So you Lucazade a good re hydrator? never tried it for that, i guy i went skiing with once said it had stuff in it that de hydrates you and he was a Pharmacist but i have no idea but maybe you people on here may have a better idea?

But the distance you did and it helped you so probably load of tosh.

I have been using SIS Go in my camelbak and it seems to work ok, although it contains Aspartyme (sp) which i also heard was very bad!

I sometimes take flap jack to munch but that has real high fat content and i read somewhere that the fat is bad, hampers absorbtion of carbs so maybe i should stick to the energy bars!

I think keeping hydrated and eating the right things could be make or brake my edurnance event!

pjm-84

Only really use Lucozade in times of emergency.

On the longer rides I aim to try and keep the calories up and the big L gave me something like 700 calories which is easily consumed.

Bar wise I really rate these however I don't know what calories they give (I assume around 300)

http://www.eatnatural.co.uk/splash.jsp

So on a hard ride I will aim to cosume a bar or gel every 10km duration which works out around 700 calories - per hour. This mirrors roughly the calories I'm burning allowing me to keep going until I run out of food.