Fake Titanium
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Depends how you define stronger. Cromo steels have higher tensile strength than titanium. Ti has a good strength/weight ratio.0
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Toasty wrote:I'm going to dash in and quote:
http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html
Just because I know Super will in about 5 minutes :P
Yes, a good page that, sums things up nicely.0 -
I rode a ti duster, and then a steel duster. Same frame, same geomatry but different feel. If its down to costruction why was 1 different from the other? The costruction was identical.0
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Didnt even know Specialized make a Ti frame ? What model is that ?
And I've never heard of Ti paint ?0 -
Construction was completely different to be honest, different tubing, probably even made in different countries by different companies. Welding it together in the same shape doesn't make it the same.0
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cougie wrote:Didnt even know Specialized make a Ti frame ? What model is that ?
And I've never heard of Ti paint ?
It's quoted as "Colour: Titanium" which is where the confusion has come from.0 -
I define stronger as more durable. I did a lot of research before i brought a ti frame. All the research i read told me ti is stronger then steel, and has the best strength to weight ratio of any metal.0
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Frame builders construct using different wall thicknesses and diameters to give a desired weight, characteristics and feel. As Sheldon says, if they were built identically in dimensions, they would feel different. Now imagine if it was aluminium - would flex like a gymnast!
But they rarely are, the designer uses the advantages of the materials and builds on that. This is why you cannot say all ti frames are comfier than alu frames. The end feel is largely due to what the designer has done with the construction.0 -
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djvagabon wrote:I define stronger as more durable. I did a lot of research before i brought a ti frame. All the research i read told me ti is stronger then steel, and has the best strength to weight ratio of any metal.
More durable in some respects. It is a great material to build frames from, but so is sttel and aluminium. They all have their pros and cons.0 -
Titanium does not have a higher tensile strength (yield) than some steels!0
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djvagabon wrote:
They sell titanium, of course they're going to show it in a positive light. Please tell me that site was the basis for your "research"?
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construction was completely different? I'll haveto ask paul at race co on that 1, but i think youll find construction was pretty simular between the 2. You said it was down to construction. If youre now saying its down to tubing thickness then surely thats due to metal types used. That makes it the properties of the metal used important in construction. The design of the 2 frames were identical. I meant in size and geomatry, you misinterprited what i said.0
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No ofcourse it wasnt. It was 1 of many sites i looked at. I didnt spend £1,800 on a frame without looking into it first.0
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I think you are misunderstanding what has been said. Tubing thickness/butting IS a part of the construction and design. What I am saying is that the feel of a frame is down to how it is designed - given a certain material. So alu frames can be flexy, ti frames can be stiff. Of course, identically dimensioned frames will feel different.
I am trying to dismiss the myth that ti frames are always more comfy/flexier than aluminium - they are not. Depends on how it is designed and constructed!0 -
The 2nd site made good reading Super. Ive just read the pros and cons of ti. The only cons are the price, and the difficulties in construction. If the frame is well constructed and you are prepared to pay the money then basicly its the perfect metal for frame construction.0
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The reply was to toastys comment, not yours Super.0
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Yep, very very good material when done right. I would like a titanium frame myself at some point, maybe to last me to the end of my years. However I have just bought a Zaskar carbon ;-)0
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If you want a cheap Ti - check out XACD in China.0
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I know the thickness is part of the construction. I meant construction as in size and geomatry of tubing, as ive said twice.0
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Basically if you double the diameter of a tube, keeping the wall thickness the same, the stiffness of the tube increases by a factor of 8. So you can double the weight of a tube, yet you get a much stiffer unit for your effort.
Density wise steel is most, then ti, then alu, which is why this oversizing works so well for aluminium, and to a smaller extent, ti.0 -
Well im hoping my ti frame will last me a few years yet. It better had after paying as much as i did for it. Im not knocking ali frames. I have had about 20 of them. The 1 ive got now is a great frame, but i much prefer riding the ti. Its more forgiving and after a long day in the saddle i can notice the difference. Carbon is nice. I have ridden the new S Works and i found it a very enjoyable ride. A bit expensive at £5,300 though0
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Not knocking ti either: a good frame is a good frame ;-) Just that I have seen ti frames where they have really oversized the tubes, taking away some advantages which could be gained using the material. Flip side is that undersized alu frames don't last.
The carbon Zaskar should be more forgiving than my alu one, which really does have big tubes!0 -
The tubing on my frame is quite thin. The frame is super light and super comfortable. 1 of the guys i race with had a Santa Cruz superlight. He loved my bike so much he traded it in for a ti frame. Carbon is very forgiving. I noticed a difference when i put a carbon post on my orange evo.0
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I never asked, what frame is it?0
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its a Merlin. Im trying to get a pic on here but i cant. Its an abselute beauty of a bike. Everyone who sees it says how good it looks. It rides amazingly well. It was worth every penny, and then some.0
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Don't get much better than that to be honest!0
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I totaly aggree with you on that 1. My g.f said i was mad to spend £4,000 on a bike. Every time i ride it im glad i did.
The spec is Merlin ti frame. 2009 Fox rlc 100 forks, Mavic 819 rims on King hubs, King headset, Ritchey W.C.S Carbon stem, bars and seat post, Hope mono mini brakes, XTR shifters, front mech, rear carbon shadow, XTR crank and rear casette, XTR peddals and Selle Royal Carbon, Ti saddle.0 -
Bloody hell! Some build!
The Merlin is a prime example of what can be done with titanium. Every tube, weld, section and thread perfectly honed, size dependant, to tune the ride characteristics.0
