That Police Pay row, Tax Cuts/Rises & Repatriation- the

spen666

The Government renege on the arbitration finding that police are entitled to a 2.5% pay rise for the current year- delaying its implementation in England & NI to save £30million

Apparently they can't afford to pay the agreed amount.


However we also learn the government have spent £36million paying to set up business etc for those illegally in the UK, when they agree to go abroad.

co-incidence?

Anonymous

Yes.

OffTheBackAdam

Same Government that couldn't pay the pensioners who'd lost all the money in their private pension schemes when they went bust after being hit with £5b a year in taxes, despite "gauranteeing" that their pensions were safe and an Ombudsman's finding in their favour, ah, they've just realised that after chucking £24b at Northern Rock, they can now afford it!
Might they want to spend the extra £6b a year that's going into the EU's coffers or even scrapping the Barnet Formula so the money's shared round mre fairly?

Tourist Tony

Shhhhh. Don't mention the EU. Makes you a racist, dncherknow.


Seriously, and back on the OP. the filth are banned from striking by means, IIRC, of a clause in the Police Act 1966. Now, as legislation must conform to te Human Rights Act, how does that clause stand up? Spen?

Anonymous

Tourist Tony wrote:

Shhhhh. Don't mention the EU. Makes you a racist, dncherknow.


Seriously, and back on the OP. the filth are banned from striking by means, IIRC, of a clause in the Police Act 1966. Now, as legislation must conform to te Human Rights Act, how does that clause stand up? Spen?

Care to elaborate?

gavintc

sexybird wrote:

Tourist Tony wrote:

Shhhhh. Don't mention the EU. Makes you a racist, dncherknow.


Seriously, and back on the OP. the filth are banned from striking by means, IIRC, of a clause in the Police Act 1966. Now, as legislation must conform to te Human Rights Act, how does that clause stand up? Spen?

Care to elaborate?

In my experience, most members of society acknowledge the role of the police. Crims call them 'filth'. I wonder.

ivancarlos

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

Same Government that couldn't pay the pensioners who'd lost all the money in their private pension schemes when they went bust after being hit with £5b a year in taxes, despite "gauranteeing" that their pensions were safe and an Ombudsman's finding in their favour, ah, they've just realised that after chucking £24b at Northern Rock, they can now afford it!

On the subject of pensions the Police's scheme is substantially favourable to the rest of the public sector (except perhaps MPs and civil servants).

spen666

Tourist Tony wrote:

Shhhhh. Don't mention the EU. Makes you a racist, dncherknow.


Seriously, and back on the OP. the filth are banned from striking by means, IIRC, of a clause in the Police Act 1966. Now, as legislation must conform to te Human Rights Act, how does that clause stand up? Spen?

I don't know, but if they do break the criminal law and go on strike, who will arrest them?

spen666

I see today its now being said that the plastic police (PCSOs) and the civilian staff are being given the 2.5% pay rise in full ie back dated to September. Seems like another thing to p*ss the police officer off.

I wonder why the government seem to be deliberately provoking the police?

Tom Butcher

Looking at their pay and pensions I reckon the police are well paid for what they do - them and doctors - always got something to complain about.

spen666

Tom Butcher wrote:

Looking at their pay and pensions I reckon the police are well paid for what they do - them and doctors - always got something to complain about.

I don't think the disoute the police have is the money per se- its the fact that the government agreed to go to binding arbitration and then refuse to honour the outcome of the arbitration

Mithras

Tom Butcher wrote:

Looking at their pay and pensions I reckon the police are well paid for what they do - them and doctors - always got something to complain about.

Tom, as has been said, the police are not complaining about the amount of money we get, just that after arbitration and being given a 2.5% pay rise back dated to september, the government have renagued on this and made it payable to 1st December only. This now equates to a 1.9% pay rise. Having said that Police officers in Scotland will get the full 2.5% back dated to 1st September.
Our pension is good however we do pay 11% of our wages each month into that pension. (New entrants in last 2 years get less)
After 3 years (not Met Pol) I get £25k per year. In the last month I have been spat at by someone with Hep C, searched someone and found dirty hyperdermic syringes in thier pocket after being told they had none. Verbally abused on a daily basis and had to be polite in return. Physically assaulted whislt making arrests.
I have to work the first 30 minutes over time for free and generally as a front line officer am expected to fill out more forms to make someone elses jobs easier than I care to think about.
However I personally believe it is the best job in the world and do not believe in strike action by the police for any reason.
The only people I believe do a more dangerous job than police officers and firefighters (don't believe I am paying hommage to Trumpton) are the members of our armed forces serving on active duty! They are not payed enough money or looked after by our government!
Last point to finish, as I have said many times before, unless you have seen what a police officer has to deal with day to day, or you are prepared to experience as either a speacial or full time officer don't criticise.
God I do go on sometimes!

Tom Butcher

Yes if the govt agree to arbitration then they should honour it - but at the same time it doesn't mean you are only getting 1.9% - it just means that this year it will be equivalent to 1.9% and then a full 2.5% from then on - which is a rather different thing. The govt should honour an agreement and the police should stop misleading us as to how much they are getting.

Mithras

Tom Butcher wrote:

Yes if the govt agree to arbitration then they should honour it - but at the same time it doesn't mean you are only getting 1.9% - it just means that this year it will be equivalent to 1.9% and then a full 2.5% from then on - which is a rather different thing. The govt should honour an agreement and the police should stop misleading us as to how much they are getting.

I think that works out at 1.9% until September 2008 and then it starts all over again!

Tourist Tony

Tom, yes it is as you say (assuming that they do give them a pay rise next year) but it means that they lose the extra money--REALLY lose--that they would have been paid for the monthes of slippage.
It's like the public services in general. We'll pay you peanuts, but hey, you'll get a good pension. Did we say good pension?
If one side gives something up, such as the public services as described above, or the police the right to strike, in return for a promise from the other side, such as the pay review system, then that is a contract in the broad sense. I can't say to my power company "Hey, I know we signed a contract, but I'm going to knock some money off the bill beacuse I'm a bit skint" I'd be told to ram, poke, shove and pay up.

This is a real loss of money with no justification. It also comes in the middle of a drip-feed of scandal stories about the various law enforcement bodies. Gordon's big idea is to revamp a lot of that. Could all this be related?

drewfromrisca

drewfromrisca

Oh and another thing, if I hear one more person say that we get lots of benefits like free healthcare, dentist, prescriptions etc etc I'll scream!!! WE DON'T!!!!!!!!

top_bhoy

drewfromrisca wrote:

Oh and another thing, if I hear one more person say that we get lots of benefits like free healthcare, dentist, prescriptions etc etc I'll scream!!! WE DON'T!!!!!!!!

....but you get lots of benefits like free healthcare, dentist, prescriptions etc... Now will you scream?..

Tom Butcher

Mithras wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Yes if the govt agree to arbitration then they should honour it - but at the same time it doesn't mean you are only getting 1.9% - it just means that this year it will be equivalent to 1.9% and then a full 2.5% from then on - which is a rather different thing. The govt should honour an agreement and the police should stop misleading us as to how much they are getting.

I think that works out at 1.9% until September 2008 and then it starts all over again!

It doesn't though does it, it works out as 1.9% to Sept 08, then an additional 0.6 % plus whatever they get next year.

spen666

Tom Butcher wrote:

Mithras wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

Yes if the govt agree to arbitration then they should honour it - but at the same time it doesn't mean you are only getting 1.9% - it just means that this year it will be equivalent to 1.9% and then a full 2.5% from then on - which is a rather different thing. The govt should honour an agreement and the police should stop misleading us as to how much they are getting.

I think that works out at 1.9% until September 2008 and then it starts all over again!

It doesn't though does it, it works out as 1.9% to Sept 08, then an additional 0.6 % plus whatever they get next year.

That's an interesting spin put on the issue

Tom Butcher

Do you think so.

Mithras

drewfromrisca wrote:

Oh and another thing, if I hear one more person say that we get lots of benefits like free healthcare, dentist, prescriptions etc etc I'll scream!!! WE DON'T!!!!!!!!

Drew, we do get some great benefits, my local McDonalds offers a free cup of coffee to officers on shift......Now if only we were aloud to except that....or even have time to take them up on the offer.......

drewfromrisca

Very true....forgot about that. Oh wait we do get Subway's for half price, but everytime I go in there some smart ass shouts out "Haven't you got anything better to do?" You see we are not allowed to have a food break or eat.

Anonymous

drewfromrisca wrote:

Very true....forgot about that. Oh wait we do get Subway's for half price, but everytime I go in there some smart ass shouts out "Haven't you got anything better to do?" You see we are not allowed to have a food break or eat.

How come most of you are overweight then?

Mithras

drewfromrisca wrote:

Very true....forgot about that. Oh wait we do get Subway's for half price, but everytime I go in there some smart ass shouts out "Haven't you got anything better to do?" You see we are not allowed to have a food break or eat.

50% at Subways, they cut ours down to 20%, now noone uses subway and they have to employ door staff on Friday and Saturday night.

Whitley....It's because joe public can't sort out thier own petty problems without police help, so instead of being proactive on foot and on bikes looking for burglars etc, we rush about in cars dealing with one petty domestic after another petty neighbour dispute. It's because we have to eat on the fly and never really get the chance to eat a healthy meal at a healthy time

richardjallen

Mithras wrote:

drewfromrisca wrote:

Very true....forgot about that. Oh wait we do get Subway's for half price, but everytime I go in there some smart ass shouts out "Haven't you got anything better to do?" You see we are not allowed to have a food break or eat.

50% at Subways, they cut ours down to 20%, now noone uses subway and they have to employ door staff on Friday and Saturday night.

Whitley....It's because joe public can't sort out thier own petty problems without police help, so instead of being proactive on foot and on bikes looking for burglars etc, we rush about in cars dealing with one petty domestic after another petty neighbour dispute. It's because we have to eat on the fly and never really get the chance to eat a healthy meal at a healthy time

I heard recently Brown proposes to increase policing in shopping centres, of all places. This fits nicely with my own idea that our government is not interested in reducing crimes of theft but instead maintaining the current level. The public is being used to prop up this failing economy and we do it by borrowing and spending in the shops. If your house is being burgled while you are shopping then all the better for Brown. Even better that prisoners are let out early.

wallabyhunter

Heard recently in Aus that police injured at work are covered by the govnmnt workers compensation. BUT when they reach the end of the injury/ilness, if they are deemed unfit to return to work, they no longer get the gvnment support that Joe Public takes for granted.

gb

pipsqueak

There are more civilian "support" staff in my force than constables and Sgt's - all though i now have to wonder who is supporting who?

It would have been cheaper to back date police officers pay to September the 1st than the civilians with powerful unions. No prizes for guessing who they shafted.

Wouild I strike - yes. ( with provision that all 999 emergencies were still attended - unlike trumpton). If you constantly degrade the pay and conditions of this public service, the public will end up not getting a service. Some forces are experiencing a 25% wastage rate of new recruites within the first 2 years. This figure is astounding. I have personally spoken to an officer with 2 years in due to finish on 27th December. and I quote " Im not putting up with this shi* for the next 30 years.

The pension that I pay for out of my wages is the only thing that keeps me and a vast number of experienced colleagues wearing a uniform in the job.

If you pay peanuts Ivan Carlos, you will get the police service you deserve.

Tourist Tony

Well said.

Mithras

wallabyhunter wrote:

Heard recently in Aus that police injured at work are covered by the govnmnt workers compensation. BUT when they reach the end of the injury/ilness, if they are deemed unfit to return to work, they no longer get the gvnment support that Joe Public takes for granted.

gb

It's no different here, six on full pay, six on half and then fight for your compensation.

pipsqueak

Tom Butcher - we dont get an extra 0.6% at all we have lost that completely. Our pay rise is 2.5%. per annum. But as Ms Smith will not agree to independant arbitration, she will only pay 2.5% from December. It only equates to 1.9% when realized over the 12 month period.

We only get 2.5% from next September. Or will we ?