UCI Highclere Castle Victor Ludorum 2008 open for entries
Comments
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vermooten wrote:The guy who runs cyclosport.org appears to be a tosser who really just has a quite useful website, nothing more.
LOL. And far too accurate ... :twisted:0 -
To quote from the e-mail "At Cyclosport, organisers and riders can rest assured that events listed will comply with the standards established by the IACO."
How can they assure that for the thousands of (mostly superior) non-UK events ?
Is cyclosport checking on the regulations in Italy, German, Belgium or Ireland ? IACO doesn't apply there. Why doesn't it ? Should it ? Why does IACO have to afflitated with cyclosport anyway ? Which organisation is the equivalent abroad ? Who cares ?
I just want a list of events.0 -
vermooten wrote:This matters... why?
The guy who runs cyclosport.org appears to be a tosser who really just has a quite useful website, nothing more.
I presume he'll be taking the Marrmotte off his list too. And the Fred?
I think this matters because cyclosport.org clearly has aspirations to be some form of central co-ordinating body. Indeed I am sure that some people think it already is. It's a great website but seems to be run in an unprofessional manner when it comes to commercial competition. This may be damaging to the sport as it creates division amongst the sportive community and could hold back the development and evolution of future events.0 -
le patron wrote:
Is cyclosport checking on the regulations in Italy, German, Belgium or Ireland ? IACO doesn't apply there. Why doesn't it ? Should it ? Why does IACO have to afflitated with cyclosport anyway ? Which organisation is the equivalent abroad ? Who cares ?
Incidentally the cyclosport site has lots of inaccuracies in its continental event listings.
The email from them filled me with dismay. The last thing we need is another effing cycling organisation. (BC,Audax UK, CTC, LVRC, RTTC now IACO).The artist formally known as boring old fart0 -
Diesel_engine wrote:I think this matters because cyclosport.org clearly has aspirations to be some form of central co-ordinating body. Indeed I am sure that some people think it already is. It's a great website but seems to be run in an unprofessional manner when it comes to commercial competition. This may be damaging to the sport as it creates division amongst the sportive community and could hold back the development and evolution of future events.
I don't think anyone has a problem with Cyclosport being a central coordinator-it's a great idea
However, underhand pointing traffic to cyclosport, dissing events that don't toe the Cyclosport line, etc indicate a lack of understanding and professionalism
If the offering from Cyclosport was good enough, events would naturally gravitate to it
My take on the Highclere thing is that if they can call it a race, because it is a race, and they have the clearance to run it as such, good luck to them
If that doesn't fit the Cyclosport idea of the way things should be, tough
If I wasn't committed this weekend, I'd like to ride in such a "race"“It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best..." Ernest Hemingway0 -
Ken Night wrote:I don't think anyone has a problem with Cyclosport being a central coordinator-it's a great idea
However, underhand pointing traffic to cyclosport, dissing events that don't toe the Cyclosport line, etc indicate a lack of understanding and professionalism
I don't think those two comments are consistent. I have no problem with a central co-ordinator, but it has to be professional, well-run and transparent.
I also don't see any need for another UK cycling body when, as others have said, we already have BC, CTT, AUK, CTC and others.
I have no problem with cyclosport making a bit of money through having a great website and through offering various services to the organisers of these events. But it shouldn't be done by bad-mouthing events it doesn't like and actively trying to undermine the efforts of BC and others.0 -
What a snotty little note from Cyclosport.org. It's my ball and I'm going home.
Highclere is the best organised Sportive I've been to. The riders are set-off in groups to prevent the dreadful mass shuffle and queues. I seem to remember the Dragon ride setting riders of in groups.
What I want to know is who were the complainers?0 -
I am sure that EXRACER will be happy to answer all these questions.0
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magliaceleste wrote:Highclere is the best organised Sportive I've been to.
I agree.0 -
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Eat My Dust wrote:15threes wrote:I am sure that EXRACER will be happy to answer all these questions.
I saw he was having a little moan on Cyclechat about you guys. Sorry exracer but you were/are!
Classic "disinterested noob" lookalike post...feigning ignorance, but then revealing we at Bike Radar have our heads up BC.....and there was a ref to Cyclosport....
The other post disses Etape Caledonia-and has the same trademark grammatical error's (sic)“It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best..." Ernest Hemingway0 -
Ken Night wrote:Classic "disinterested noob" lookalike post...feigning ignorance, but then revealing we at Bike Radar have our heads up BC.....and there was a ref to Cyclosport....
The other post disses Etape Caledonia-and has the same trademark grammatical error's (sic)
If ExRacer on both forums is Harding, then he's hitting new lows ...0 -
Ken Night wrote:[
Several posters on Bike Radar were pointing traffic towards Cyclosport last week, and when it was pointed out, these might have been made by people acting for Cyclosport and that they should declare themselves as such, those posters attacked those doing the pointing out.
I suggested that if they were not Mark Harding/Cyclosport, that he at least should be told-and received a vituperative post in consequence
This happened on my thread "Making Sportives harder is counterproductive". I asked the mods to check on those posters pointing traffic to cyclosport. It was confirmed they were all the same person
I therefore asked the mods to remove my thread
The four names posting last week were ZZTop, ExRacer, SecretBurningThread and RogerTheTaxDodger.
Any connection between the spat between myself and ExRacer, and the removal of my posts from Cyclosport could be entirely co-incidental.“It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best..." Ernest Hemingway0 -
Rather than protect sportives, I reckon the more Cyclosport.org try and draw attention to the 'races' the more problems they are likely to cause for the whole sport. I've got no particular axe to grind but they appear to be shooting themselves in the foot.
Surely the reason a race is a race is because you are trying to beat others around you 'on the road' & this is why races are regulated. Racing behaviour and all the tactical manoevers it leads to are the 'problem'. It doesn't really matter whether you are trying to beat other peoples times or to beat your own time: Your behaviour on the bike will still be the same. Whether results are ranked or a winner is declared seems to me to be pretty much immaterial0 -
ellieb wrote:Rather than protect sportives, I reckon the more Cyclosport.org try and draw attention to the 'races' the more problems they are likely to cause for the whole sport. I've got no particular axe to grind but they appear to be shooting themselves in the foot.
Surely the reason a race is a race is because you are trying to beat others around you 'on the road' & this is why races are regulated. Racing behaviour and all the tactical manoevers it leads to are the 'problem'. It doesn't really matter whether you are trying to beat other peoples times or to beat your own time: Your behaviour on the bike will still be the same. Whether results are ranked or a winner is declared seems to me to be pretty much immaterial
I agree with both points on the above post.
When I go out training I'm racing against my own time, is that illegal? :roll:0 -
I think the more 'race' oriented sportives are more akin to time trials, which do not require any special arrangements. I also agree that the more the perceived problems are highlighted by blacklisting of events, the more other high profile events are threatened.0
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Interestingly the FWC is one event that is a member of the IACO. Check the members list, you might be a little surprised.
My point about timing wasnt a recommendation that it should be removed, in fact I agree that sportives occupy a fantastic niche between full on legal racing and just doing a long club run, but its hard to define a grey area when you want to be clear (which in fairness to cyclosport is what they are trying to do) about what the event really is. There are I am sure legal reasons for not technically allowing racing to be called a sportive - racing requires all kinds of police / risk analysis / licensing etc etc that I don't believe is required for non competitive riding.
Ellieb your point is right, I still think that take away the formal timing and people will still ride them as they will still unofficially race each other....0 -
Taking away the formal timing will kill sportives popularity (otherwise it's just an expensive bike ride). There is however no need to necessarily publish the results in order. Neither should there be prizes for top places.
I think Elliebs point is that it is racing behaviour that is dangerous and the jostling for position etc., it's not the timing.0 -
magliaceleste wrote:Taking away the formal timing will kill sportives popularity (otherwise it's just an expensive bike ride). There is however no need to necessarily publish the results in order.
There's no difference in information content between a time-ordered result sheet and a competitor-ordered result sheet. One's just a sorted version of the other. If one is innocuous so is the other. If one is unsporting so is the other.0 -
Audax UK promote hundreds of such rides every year, and they're kind of ok especially if you want to get some miles in during the winter and spring. There are some fcking fast riders too, don't think it's all beards and saggy Gore jackets. Entry is cheap, too, usually a fiver, and you usually get tea and cakes and butties.magliaceleste wrote:Taking away the formal timing will kill sportives popularity (otherwise it's just an expensive bike ride).
Check it out if you're unaware of these rides: http://www.audax.uk.net/cal/index.htm0 -
Michuel wrote:There's no difference in information content between a time-ordered result sheet and a competitor-ordered result sheet. One's just a sorted version of the other. If one is innocuous so is the other. If one is unsporting so is the other.
In pure information terms no, but in perception terms there is. If the results are not published in order, it is not possible to easily see who has won simply by visiting the site. This removes bragging rights and only those who are interested will bother to sort them. It is also important remove any prizes for being in top positions.vermooten wrote:Audax UK promote hundreds of such rides every year, and they're kind of ok especially if you want to get some miles in during the winter and spring. There are some fcking fast riders too, don't think it's all beards and saggy Gore jackets. Entry is cheap, too, usually a fiver, and you usually get tea and cakes and butties.
Check it out if you're unaware of these rides: http://www.audax.uk.net/cal/index.htm
Thanks. Yes I know of Audax rides already, and no they don't appeal.0 -
They get 20,000 people every year to ride the Tour of Flanders sportif - it's not timed, but it doesn't stop us having our own "race" to see who the first back is when we ride it together as a club.magliaceleste wrote:Taking away the formal timing will kill sportives popularity (otherwise it's just an expensive bike ride).0 -
My preferred approach to timing is that riders get their individual time printed on their certificate and/or emailed to them but these are not published in order or otherwise.Martin S. Newbury RC0
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magliaceleste wrote:Taking away the formal timing will kill sportives popularity (otherwise it's just an expensive bike ride). There is however no need to necessarily publish the results in order. Neither should there be prizes for top places.
I think Elliebs point is that it is racing behaviour that is dangerous and the jostling for position etc., it's not the timing.
So how do you explain the popularity of PBP or Londo to Paris? Put up signs and people (not just, and mostly not racers) wil come. I sure half the reaso wht sportives are so popuar is that they are not hardcore races, its all about perception. Doesnt stop us club riders making a race of it, but not explicitly, as that is what will kill it.0 -
Would this include Gold, Silver & Bronze performance awards.magliaceleste wrote:Michuel wrote:It is also important remove any prizes for being in top positions.Rich0 -
The Cyclosport website has been taken down and is currently showing the following:
System Maintenance
Due to increasing competition and legal reasons, we can no longer continue normal operation.
We would therefore refer you to the Independent Association of Cyclosportive Organisers.
Wonder what that means...
Is this the end of cyclo sportives as we know it. Will we all be growing beards, buying brookes saddles and following routecards round audaxes before we know it?
Rich0 -
RichA wrote:Is this the end of cyclo sportives as we know it. Will we all be growing beards, buying brookes saddles and following routecards round audaxes before we know it?
Maybe some of us will start entering races... :P
I hope cyclosport get this sorted out. It was inevitable that its recent behaviour would not go unchallenged by others. But it does leave a big hole if the site is permanantly consigned to the bin.0 -
Dear oh dear, this is just silly. This is the kind of thing you might expect to see if the teams on The Apprentice were asked to set up sportive websites, not what you'd expect from someone looking tyo deliver a valued service to the cycling community.
Still, I'd imagine the sportive organisers that paid for services from cyclosport will not be impressed that their publicity has been withdrawn on a whim and may start voting with their feet. Maybe then the owners of cyclosport will get the message that juvenille, confrontational tactics such as the original e-mail and this stunt with the website are self-defeating and will alienate the community they rely upon.0 -
It's alienating me as the cyclosport website is the best source of information available it not being available due to some sort of toys out of the pram affair is unprofessional. People rely on it.0
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Cyclosport as a website is useful but hardly essential. We could do almost as much with a sticky thread on here.
I don't see he has any business cooking up "standards"0
