Four more blood dopers at T-Mobile

Langenberg

Report in a regional German newspaper from an area close to Freiburg:

There were four additional blood dopers in addition to Sinkewitz which literally drove to Freiburg in a convoy to get blood transfusions on 1 July 06. This is based on an internal report of the Universty of Freiburg.

Hm, bets are taken who that might be but Werner Franke points to the four riders who were among the first 8 of the time trial in the following week, i.e. Michael Rogers (can't remember who were the others).

Also, there was a contract between the University and Telekom in 99, where Telekom paid about E600k to Andreas Schmid for research into making EPO detectable... the same Andreas Schmid who later administered the blood transfusions. Hm, where these really payments for research or just a way of paying him for his efforts...

phil s

Has he any grounds for singling out Rogers other than he once worked with Ferrari?

Looking at who took to the start -

21 Andreas Klöden (Ger)
22 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita)
23 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr)
24 Matthias Kessler (Ger)
25 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita)
26 Michael Rogers (Aus)
27 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger)

There is one guy in there who I am fairly certain didn't make the trip to Freiburg, two guys who are confirmed naughty boys, one who was sacked for contravening the Stapelton code, plus Patrik S.

skavanagh.bikeradar

That's too cryptic for me! I've obviously not been keeping up at the back. I understand the need for being a bit obscure however.

drenkrom

If they're the first 4 from T-Mob, not counting Stinky, they would be:
-Gonchar (no, really?)
-Rogers (he speaks English and dopes, get over it!)
-Klöden (another flabbergasting surprise there!)
-Kessler (any suggestions on other ways to feign surprise?)

And, please, how is anyone singling out Rogers. The news is that FOUR other riders went for a transfusion. The only singling out is that he's the only English-speaker in the bunch. Are you guys going to become like the French?

Langenberg

This is the stage report... apparently T-Mobile "morphed into T-Rex". Whatever.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006//t ... ts/tour067

Anyway, the top placed T-Mobile riders are:

Gonchar (1)
Rogers (4)
Sinkewitz (6)
Kloeden (eight)
Kessler (14)

Knowing what we know now, it's difficult to be surprised.

Langenberg

drenkrom, you beat me to it...

phil s

drenkrom wrote:

And, please, how is anyone singling out Rogers. The news is that FOUR other riders went for a transfusion. The only singling out is that he's the only English-speaker in the bunch. Are you guys going to become like the French?

You're getting a bit touchy. I only said that because he was mentioned by name in the OP, which I'm assuming was also the case for the regional newspaper. I don't give a rat's arse that he's an English speaker.

Langenberg

Rogers wasn't singled out. He was just quoted as having said after the stage that T-Mobile had shown "their true strength".

Yeah right.

iainf72

phil s wrote:

Has he any grounds for singling out Rogers other than he once worked with Ferrari?

That makes it sound like he'd spoken to him once and that was it. He prepared his training programs for a good while.

On the original topic, I wonder if T-Mobile found this out a couple of weeks ago. When they announced they were out I wondered if they'd found out something additional - And finding something on Rogers would force their hand especially after Bob defended him so strongly.

phil s

iainf72 wrote:

phil s wrote:

Has he any grounds for singling out Rogers other than he once worked with Ferrari?

That makes it sound like he'd spoken to him once and that was it. He prepared his training programs for a good while.

Err, I once worked at the Press Association but it was for more than a single day. In fact it was for many days, but I did work their once.

iainf72

phil s wrote:

Err, I once worked at the Press Association but it was for more than a single day. In fact it was for many days, but I did work their once.

You're right. But it's not as if he worked with him back in "the day" During the 06 TdF he maintained a relationship with the Myth (I think they terminated it after the Tour)

andyp

phil s wrote:

Has he any grounds for singling out Rogers other than he once worked with Ferrari?

Looking at who took to the start -

21 Andreas Klöden (Ger)
22 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita)
23 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr)
24 Matthias Kessler (Ger)
25 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita)
26 Michael Rogers (Aus)
27 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger)

There is one guy in there who I am fairly certain didn't make the trip to Freiburg, two guys who are confirmed naughty boys, one who was sacked for contravening the Stapelton code, plus Patrik S.

I must be the resident cynic - I looked at that list and thought "only four"!

drenkrom

sorry there, phil. I didn't mean to bite into you or anything. This thing about Rogers being a good guy because we understand what he says has come up before, and you may have noticed it still ruffles my feathers :roll:

Seems the only culprit in the singling-out is Langenberg's memory

Yet another hot plate on Bob's table, then. I'm actually starting to feel pity for the man.

aurelio_-_banned

drenkrom wrote:

And, please, how is anyone singling out Rogers. The news is that FOUR other riders went for a transfusion. The only singling out is that he's the only English-speaker in the bunch. Are you guys going to become like the French?

Eh? Don't you mean 'like the Americans', refusing to hear a word being spoken against their riders even when they have conclusively been proved to have doped, as with Landis, Hamilton and so on?

(Given the way the Spanish press and national cycling authority turned Mayo's' 'illisible' 'B' test result into a 'negative' one 'confirmed' by another non-existent test supposedly done in Australia 'even 'like the Spanish' would have made more sense!)

skavanagh.bikeradar

I've caught up now.....and tis all goes to prove how important is should have been that the Operation Puerto investigation shouldn't have been shelved.

Noodley

andyp wrote:

phil s wrote:

Has he any grounds for singling out Rogers other than he once worked with Ferrari?

Looking at who took to the start -

21 Andreas Klöden (Ger)
22 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita)
23 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr)
24 Matthias Kessler (Ger)
25 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita)
26 Michael Rogers (Aus)
27 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger)

There is one guy in there who I am fairly certain didn't make the trip to Freiburg, two guys who are confirmed naughty boys, one who was sacked for contravening the Stapelton code, plus Patrik S.

I must be the resident cynic - I looked at that list and thought "only four"!

It's okay andyp, I also looked at the list and thought "only 4 of them?!" The only one I may have overlooked as not being obvious was Rogers. But it appears that is incorrect. 7 out of 7 IMO.

phil s

Yeah it's all pretty dodgy, a right sorry state of affairs. When will this sh1t ever end?

andyp

phil s wrote:

Yeah it's all pretty dodgy, a right sorry state of affairs. When will this sh1t ever end?

Who knows. There are still a lot of skeletons in a lot of cupboards and if the status quo, i.e. of not doing much, continues then there's got to be a good 2-3 years worth of scandals to come.

When you read articles like this about one of the alleged 'good guys' it doesn't fill you with much hope for the future.

Edit: I mean Bob Stapleton as one of the good guys not Jorg Jaksche. I must say I always thought the signing of Hincapie was an odd move by a team wanting to project a squeaky clean image. I realise Big George has never failed a test but he's part of the Armstrong inner circle and, frankly, anyone who ever saw him putting skinny climbers in trouble in the Pyrenees a few years back knows he couldn't do that on bread and water.

dave_1

I think this Bob Stapleton is not that knowledgeable about cycling? That's my guess. I would not have 1990s era riders at all in a team or any support riders of the big names of the 1990s-to 2005

drenkrom

The thing to remember is that, in this case, we're talking about 4 riders who went to get a transfusion after the prologue. That does not mean the others didn't get a transfusion for the whole Tour. If the question was "who got a transfusion at any time during the Tour?", I'd answer "all of them" without hesitation. But a few of them had nothing to win in the first half of the race. I don't see how Guerini would benefit from a transfusion before racing through Belgium. His job came on later. I'd question the logic when it comes to Klöden, as well. Gonchar was on fire that week, Kessler kept attacking like his legs knew no end, Rogers posted his best Tour TT of recent times. It would've been more logical for Klöden to "pull a Vino" and transfuse right before the first TT, but it would've been logical to stop that sh!t when their leader got thrown off the race for the same actions. I doubt logic comes into the equation.

What gets me confused is that Ullrich was linked to Fuentes and made many trips down south to see him. None of the other T-Mobs of 2006, except Sevilla, were linked to OP. Yet they still got transfusions. So there were two distinct programs at work in the team? Or are the two programs somehow linked?

iainf72

andyp wrote:

Edit: I mean Bob Stapleton as one of the good guys not Jorg Jaksche. I must say I always thought the signing of Hincapie was an odd move by a team wanting to project a squeaky clean image. I realise Big George has never failed a test but he's part of the Armstrong inner circle and, frankly, anyone who ever saw him putting skinny climbers in trouble in the Pyrenees a few years back knows he couldn't do that on bread and water.

I'm starting to seriously believe that Bob is a grade A top of the pile idiot.

So 'king what that someone conforms to your half baked anti-doping program. Didn't Sinkewitz say he did? Didn't Honchar? Didn't that Italian who's name escapes me? Has it crossed his little mind that these are guys for who lying is part of the job.

He deserves the next betrayal.

G man

Iain. I don't think anyone deserves betrayal for being stupid. That's a little harsh. Naive or stupid people do not deserve misfortune (not that I think Stapleton is either). We know you were right about predicting the fall of T mobile but could you stop the gloating about how difficult this must all be for Stapleton. I would rather he was stupid and naive, than complicit in the doping practises. I just get more and more disappointed with each revelation.
G man
A Bradley Wiggins fan

skavanagh.bikeradar

The frustration, for me, is that all of the Stapleton 'rigorous internal testing program' PR is a bit ephemeral - compared to CSC and (blimey, am I saying this?) Astana and I suppose Slipstream - although this all needs to be proven in the real world yet. There are so many skeletons in the High Road cupboard and Stapleton didn't do enough to get rid of them all. He hasn't been able to draw a line under it all, and one wonders if that is going to keep dogging him over the next 12 months too. There are a lot of unanswered questions and suspicions floating over High Road and it's staff which the departure of T-Mobile as headline sponsor isn't going to answer or dispel. That's the beef.

Perhaps High Road/T-Mob are too obvious a target, I mean, with all these teams doing their own testing programs who is policing it all and ensuring that vested interests aren't being served? Can we put our faith in these programs?

iainf72

I know what you're saying G man, but Bob is responsible for 50 people's livings now. He's used his tough business brain to bully a good settlement out of T-Mobile. Great.

So now he's going to market to try and get new sponsors on board and give the team a future, right? All noble and good. He's selling the team on the basis of "we're a new way / clean / etc" That's fine too. But what will potential sponsors do next time there is a scandal?

He's been bitten twice by riders who were either clearly dodgy (Honchar) or who were definately suspicous (Sinkewitz). Rogers has got a big question mark dripping blood hanging over his head and the same could be said for Big George. Sure, there's no evidence but is it a risk worth taking with the clean boys on the teams future?

jimmythecuckoo

drenkrom wrote:

-Rogers (he speaks English and dopes, get over it!)

you'll be telling me Levi dopes next... or that Lance and George used to

dave_1

1990s riders should be avoided as it is too difficult know if they used or not. Stapleton should only be taking on ex dopers who repent or clean young riders not developed in festina like team set ups..

skavanagh.bikeradar

Aha! http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... dec10news2

iainf72

I'm confused. Does this mean me or LangerDan hate on Team High Road now?

skavanagh.bikeradar

Ha! Maybe both. I'd like to know what the scheme involves and how it will stop doping. Gripper appears to be onside with it. What are the loopholes for HighRoad and SlipStream to hide in?

dave_1

I don't like Slipstream much...that's my gig for 2008...

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

I don't like Slipstream much...that's my gig for 2008...

hehe. Dan has already warned me off that.