T-Mobile out

GroupOfOne MkII

Somewhere yesterday it said Giant had said they'd continue. Guess we'll see but I'd guess they will because a) they're a bicycle manufacturer so it's not like they can go off and sponsor football and b) they're not German so won't be subject to the same pressures as T-Mobile, Audi & Adidas.

Jajacp

They're obliged to carry on really aren't they? Just made me wonder if Bob was any good at welding or laying up carbon - highroad the only protour team that builds it's own bikes?

alanmcn1

Jajacp wrote:

and I also notice from the same article that Giant are considering their position. Now if cycle manutactures want to pull out of professional cycling...

Already happened with BMC and Astana....................

drenkrom

The name associated with the teams might be the sponsor's, but they do not run the teams. The malpractices at DT/T-Mobile were not perpetrated by the sponsor. They were perpetrated by individuals wearing clothes with the sponsor's name on it. It can therefore not be a "good riddance" that a sponsor leaves with its "dirty money". If it were, who then would be to blame for the malpractices in Lefévère's team? Would it be QuickStep? or Innergetic? or Davitamon? or Domo? Sponsors come and go and do not run the teams. We can blame T-Mobile for leaving the sport in this way, but we can not blame the company that fronted the money for the misconduct of the team spending the money. To do that is to bolster their decision of jumping ship. The board members at DT did not put the needle in the riders' arms, the riders did that themselves. To put the responsibility on the sponsor is to give a perfect demonstration of why no company should invest in cycling.

I was frustrated at T-Mob for pulling out, before I waded through five pages of this. If I was giving away 15 million Euro a year and what I got in return was this kind of attitude towards me, I'd keep my money to myself too.

Anonymous

Well said drenkrom.

method

drenkrom wrote:

The name associated with the teams might be the sponsor's, but they do not run the teams. The malpractices at DT/T-Mobile were not perpetrated by the sponsor. They were perpetrated by individuals wearing clothes with the sponsor's name on it. It can therefore not be a "good riddance" that a sponsor leaves with its "dirty money". If it were, who then would be to blame for the malpractices in Lefévère's team? Would it be QuickStep? or Innergetic? or Davitamon? or Domo? Sponsors come and go and do not run the teams. We can blame T-Mobile for leaving the sport in this way, but we can not blame the company that fronted the money for the misconduct of the team spending the money. To do that is to bolster their decision of jumping ship. The board members at DT did not put the needle in the riders' arms, the riders did that themselves. To put the responsibility on the sponsor is to give a perfect demonstration of why no company should invest in cycling.

I was frustrated at T-Mob for pulling out, before I waded through five pages of this. If I was giving away 15 million Euro a year and what I got in return was this kind of attitude towards me, I'd keep my money to myself too.

I totally agree, I can't see how people are laying the blame with T-Mobile, I'm actually glad they pulled out. Perhaps cycling needs to lose all its sponsors to realise what its become.
The sad thing is T-Mobile had a huge financial input into junior cycling, so they lose out too.

NlEDERMEYER

seconded

dave_1

On reflection, I still have more sympathy for big Jan than I want to admit-he was given an impossible situation and did what a top rider had to do....even though his actions have damaged everyone now. So unfair really. Ultimately, the buck stops with the UCI...they ran Obree into the ground and allow EPO use to become rife..I can see why Obree tried to score a direct hit on Verbruggen in the veldrome 1994

NlEDERMEYER

ContrelaMontre wrote:

[splutter] this is fcucking ridiculous [splutter]

:shock:

really angry with the approach of T-Mobile. They are not, and never have it would seem, serious about being a force for good in the pursuit of clean[er] cycling.

au contraire.....the only thing that seems to have any impact on these clowns is taking their money away - this is actually a very positive action on T-Mob's part.

ContrelaMontre

NlEDERMEYER wrote:

ContrelaMontre wrote:

[splutter] this is fcucking ridiculous [splutter]

:shock:

really angry with the approach of T-Mobile. They are not, and never have it would seem, serious about being a force for good in the pursuit of clean[er] cycling.

au contraire.....the only thing that seems to have any impact on these clowns is taking their money away - this is actually a very positive action on T-Mob's part.

I disagree. The fact of the matter is that there are still sponsors who want to get involved. It's really quite a cheap marketing technique. T-Mob were only putting in about 15 million euro a year, which is a pittance for the biggest team in cycling. You wouldn't even pay the wages of two average footballers like a John Terry for that.

Cycling's problems will be much better served by teams who nail their colours to the anti-doping mast. T-Mobile started down that path and failed utterly miserably. They needed to match the rhetoric with action. They needed to clear out the bad guys and they needed to invest more of their budget in a Damsgaard style programme. Quitting at this stage just sends out the message that anti-doping is a fight not worth fighting. Your sponsorship will return more value by not questioning the moral issues.

Jajacp

Already happened with BMC and Astana....................[/quote]

I'd forgotten about that. I suppose the comercial pressures are different for a small high end manufacturer like BMC compared to Giant, but BMC actually owe most of their international profile to the somewhat dubious Phonak and Astana result sheets. I wonder how much the current boom in road bike sales owes to the publicity generated by the high profile doped up stars of the lst 15 years and how much to grass roots interest, sportifs and traithalon etc.

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

On reflection, I still have more sympathy for big Jan than I want to admit-he was given an impossible situation and did what a top rider had to do....even though his actions have damaged everyone now.

I don't believe its the past that's caused the problem - Well, not directly. In my view, the problem was caused by the "new T-Mobile" having a lot of baggage that kept biting them on the backside.

If Stapleton has got rid of Aldag and Holm at the first sniff of trouble, thought a bit more intelligently about who he hired for the team and spend his time finding and working on the best anti-doping program rather that constantly talking about it (bet he used to be an IBM salesman) T-Mobile might still be there.

He's a smart guy, clearly but if you looked in the cycling dictionary for "niave" I'm pretty sure there would be a picture of Bob there.

If Team High Road continue like they have done this year I'm sure they'll suffer another doping scandal in the 08 season.

Anonymous

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

On reflection, I still have more sympathy for big Jan than I want to admit-he was given an impossible situation and did what a top rider had to do....even though his actions have damaged everyone now.

I don't believe its the past that's caused the problem - Well, not directly. In my view, the problem was caused by the "new T-Mobile" having a lot of baggage that kept biting them on the backside.

If Stapleton has got rid of Aldag and Holm at the first sniff of trouble, thought a bit more intelligently about who he hired for the team and spend his time finding and working on the best anti-doping program rather that constantly talking about it (bet he used to be an IBM salesman) T-Mobile might still be there.

He's a smart guy, clearly but if you looked in the cycling dictionary for "niave" I'm pretty sure there would be a picture of Bob there.

If Team High Road continue like they have done this year I'm sure they'll suffer another doping scandal in the 08 season.

You wouldn't find that word in any dictionary.

ContrelaMontre

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

On reflection, I still have more sympathy for big Jan than I want to admit-he was given an impossible situation and did what a top rider had to do....even though his actions have damaged everyone now.

I don't believe its the past that's caused the problem - Well, not directly. In my view, the problem was caused by the "new T-Mobile" having a lot of baggage that kept biting them on the backside.

If Stapleton has got rid of Aldag and Holm at the first sniff of trouble, thought a bit more intelligently about who he hired for the team and spend his time finding and working on the best anti-doping program rather that constantly talking about it (bet he used to be an IBM salesman) T-Mobile might still be there.

He's a smart guy, clearly but if you looked in the cycling dictionary for "niave" I'm pretty sure there would be a picture of Bob there.

If Team High Road continue like they have done this year I'm sure they'll suffer another doping scandal in the 08 season.

Agreed!

Although I feel that the guys fronting up the cash (T-Mob) should have made sure the above was done. Especially, as they claimed they were supporting a clear up job.

Or they weren't providing the support our Bob needed to do anything tangible.

iainf72

whitley wrote:

You wouldn't find that word in any dictionary.

:oops:

I'll leave it so everyone can laugh at me.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

On reflection, I still have more sympathy for big Jan than I want to admit-he was given an impossible situation and did what a top rider had to do....even though his actions have damaged everyone now.

I don't believe its the past that's caused the problem - Well, not directly. In my view, the problem was caused by the "new T-Mobile" having a lot of baggage that kept biting them on the backside.

If Stapleton has got rid of Aldag and Holm at the first sniff of trouble, thought a bit more intelligently about who he hired for the team and spend his time finding and working on the best anti-doping program rather that constantly talking about it (bet he used to be an IBM salesman) T-Mobile might still be there.

He's a smart guy, clearly but if you looked in the cycling dictionary for "niave" I'm pretty sure there would be a picture of Bob there.

If Team High Road continue like they have done this year I'm sure they'll suffer another doping scandal in the 08 season.

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie...this is certainly not possible in 3 week stages races due to the very severe daily distance and profile of the route in all weathers...so am still tempted to say, blame the system as much as the individual.

jimmythecuckoo

I agree, the track riders are probably the safest among them.

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

Boardman, Wiggins, Obree...clean I reckon. The fastest 3 men in the world on the boards in my time watching the sport. It suggests to me that the nature of professional road race cycling ..grand tours and heavy racing schedules guarantee doping must happen...

e.g. Boardman at 1994 TDF prologue in one of the biggest EPO events in history in my opinion. He still won

timoid.

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

Boardman, Wiggins, Obree...clean I reckon. The fastest 3 men in the world on the boards in my time watching the sport. It suggests to me that the nature of professional road race cycling ..grand tours and heavy racing schedules guarantee doping must happen...

e.g. Boardman at 1994 TDF prologue in one of the biggest EPO events in history in my opinion. He still won

It'd be the roids you need for a prolgue. But too much roids bulks up a rider too much, so a clean guy can win this type of event.

However on the boards, a roid monkey could prosper. Not saying he's dirty, but Chris Hoy is huge.

Anonymous

Timoid. wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

Boardman, Wiggins, Obree...clean I reckon. The fastest 3 men in the world on the boards in my time watching the sport. It suggests to me that the nature of professional road race cycling ..grand tours and heavy racing schedules guarantee doping must happen...

e.g. Boardman at 1994 TDF prologue in one of the biggest EPO events in history in my opinion. He still won

It'd be the roids you need for a prolgue. But too much roids bulks up a rider too much, so a clean guy can win this type of event.

However on the boards, a roid monkey could prosper. Not saying he's dirty, but Chris Hoy is huge.

So was Reg Harris.
Doubt he'd even heard of steroids.

dave_1

Timoid. wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

Boardman, Wiggins, Obree...clean I reckon. The fastest 3 men in the world on the boards in my time watching the sport. It suggests to me that the nature of professional road race cycling ..grand tours and heavy racing schedules guarantee doping must happen...

e.g. Boardman at 1994 TDF prologue in one of the biggest EPO events in history in my opinion. He still won

It'd be the roids you need for a prolgue. But too much roids bulks up a rider too much, so a clean guy can win this type of event.

However on the boards, a roid monkey could prosper. Not saying he's dirty, but Chris Hoy is huge.

Timoid, I reckon if the prologue had been held mid TDF...the blood dopers would have whipped Boardman. I think the pro tour , all the teams should be brought to a halt on dec 31 and everyone take a year out from the sport...road race wins = doping

Anonymous

Dave_1 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

Boardman, Wiggins, Obree...clean I reckon. The fastest 3 men in the world on the boards in my time watching the sport. It suggests to me that the nature of professional road race cycling ..grand tours and heavy racing schedules guarantee doping must happen...

e.g. Boardman at 1994 TDF prologue in one of the biggest EPO events in history in my opinion. He still won

It'd be the roids you need for a prolgue. But too much roids bulks up a rider too much, so a clean guy can win this type of event.

However on the boards, a roid monkey could prosper. Not saying he's dirty, but Chris Hoy is huge.

Timoid, I reckon if the prologue had been held mid TDF...the blood dopers would have whipped Boardman. I think the pro tour , all the teams should be brought to a halt on dec 31 and everyone take a year out from the sport...road race wins = doping

Get real .Not long ago you were bemoaning the fact that people are out of work (wrongly) because of TMob quitting .Now you want everyone out of work.

dave_1

whitley wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

I think you could be right...but perhaps Stapleton deserves a chance now. The thing with Wiggins and co...it's slightly easier for them as I think clean talent on the track can shine through even against the doped trackie

How many chances does he need?

If we got one clean track rider and one who got prepared by a decent Italian doctor, who would you put your money on?

People dope to run for 9.9 seconds.

Boardman, Wiggins, Obree...clean I reckon. The fastest 3 men in the world on the boards in my time watching the sport. It suggests to me that the nature of professional road race cycling ..grand tours and heavy racing schedules guarantee doping must happen...

e.g. Boardman at 1994 TDF prologue in one of the biggest EPO events in history in my opinion. He still won

It'd be the roids you need for a prolgue. But too much roids bulks up a rider too much, so a clean guy can win this type of event.

However on the boards, a roid monkey could prosper. Not saying he's dirty, but Chris Hoy is huge.

Timoid, I reckon if the prologue had been held mid TDF...the blood dopers would have whipped Boardman. I think the pro tour , all the teams should be brought to a halt on dec 31 and everyone take a year out from the sport...road race wins = doping

Get real .Not long ago you were bemoaning the fact that people are out of work (wrongly) because of TMob quitting .Now you want everyone out of work.

Well, perhaps it's a bit drastic...but 2006-07 have been hardcore doping ...I suppose by next year with Coifidis and Credit Agricole gone...and all the German teams gone...it really will be a minor sport

David Wilson

Just Emailed T Mob to say how disappointed I was they pulled sponsorship and I only took out phone contract with them cos of that sponsorship - but more the point they had a chance to help a sport they are linked to come to a brighter future. They owe it nothing of course but it's a massive shame all the same.

If you wish to post your thoughts to T-Mobile, I went here, though god knows if T-Mob uk will have any idea what I'm on about or care - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/service/conta ... onsorship/

Now, I wonder if they will let me pull out of my T-Mobile contract with them early.... well, they started it when they pulled out of the pro team contract 2 years early

Anonymous

Give me strength. :roll:

drenkrom

I guess as long as you agree on a "satisfactory financial settlement" for the termination, they'll be fine with it

David Wilson

David Wilson wrote:

Just Emailed T Mob to say how disappointed I was they pulled sponsorship and I only took out phone contract with them cos of that sponsorship - but more the point they had a chance to help a sport they are linked to come to a brighter future. They owe it nothing of course but it's a massive shame all the same.

If you wish to post your thoughts to T-Mobile, I went here, though god knows if T-Mob uk will have any idea what I'm on about or care - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/service/conta ... onsorship/

Now, I wonder if they will let me pull out of my T-Mobile contract with them early.... well, they started it when they pulled out of the pro team contract 2 years early

I've just realised how sad I am. :oops:

G man

First discovery channel, now T mobile gone. That's a large amount of cash leaving the sport. I'm really disappointed that it's turned out like this. I'm biassed, becasue I'm a big fan of Wiggins, Cavendish and Hammond, but at least they should all still be riding for the new team. I wonder how this will sit with Ullrich and Zabel? I like them both , but they are partly responsible for this mess, and need to at least try to do something positive for the sport. They have become very rich from cheating, and I want to know what they are going to do to try to make amends to the sport and to the fans that have supported them over the years. Any other fraudster would have to repay their fraudulent earnings, and although this is a bit extreme, I think they need to do something positive. Lastly, I hope the new team kit is a nicer colour than Magenta.
But despite all this nonsense, cycling is booming here in England, and I'm seeing more and more road bikes out and about. The sponsors just need to find a way of tapping into the enthsusiasm that's out there. Obsessive people like myself just can't get enough of bikes, riding bikes, reading about bikes, fiddling with bikes, looking at people fiddling with bikes, reading about people riding bikes, watching people racing bikes, reading about people who fiddle with the bikes of people who race bikes, and reading about people who have spoken to people who know the doctors of the people who race bikes.
G man
A Bradley Wiggins fan

iainf72

G man wrote:

I wonder how this will sit with Ullrich and Zabel? I like them both , but they are partly responsible for this mess, and need to at least try to do something positive for the sport. They have become very rich from cheating, and I want to know what they are going to do to try to make amends to the sport and to the fans that have supported them over the years.

That's sort of a bit like asking "what are bankers who played in the mortgage backed securties market doing for the Northern Rock shareholders" surely?

If the "new" T-Mobile had distanced themselves properly from the "old" T-Mobile this probably wouldn't have happened. They didn't and brought it on themselves.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.