Overpriced cycle goods !!!

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Comments

  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    spen666 wrote:
    flattythehurdler wrote:
    The dinotte is worth every penny. ....

    That phrase is probably the best example of why prices are "high".

    People are persuaded that things are worth the price- not that they are good.

    There is a subtle difference

    Agreed. To me, it has been worth every penny.
    Dan
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The price of bikes, cars and most consumer durables has dropped relative to income in the last 20 years, and some people are still moaning? I've got a Dinotte too and its a great little light - fact was 20 years ago, you couldn't have even bought a light without that power without strapping a motorbike battery and light to your bike. 20 years ago, a race-ready bike would have cost me the about a grand or a month a halfs wages, but today's bike will weigh about 5lbs less and have 30% more gears too. There's also far more choice too - I can buy £10 shorts from Aldi, or £135 ones from Assos - it's a free country and nobody's forcing you to buy the stuff. Get out of your time warp or get real!
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • PhilofCas
    PhilofCas Posts: 1,153
    Monty Dog wrote:
    The price of bikes, cars and most consumer durables has dropped relative to income in the last 20 years, and some people are still moaning? I've got a Dinotte too and its a great little light - fact was 20 years ago, you couldn't have even bought a light without that power without strapping a motorbike battery and light to your bike. 20 years ago, a race-ready bike would have cost me the about a grand or a month a halfs wages, but today's bike will weigh about 5lbs less and have 30% more gears too. There's also far more choice too - I can buy £10 shorts from Aldi, or £135 ones from Assos - it's a free country and nobody's forcing you to buy the stuff. Get out of your time warp or get real!

    Starving people in Africa is real.
    Make believe prices aren't.
  • markyboy2005
    markyboy2005 Posts: 465
    PhilofCas wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    The price of bikes, cars and most consumer durables has dropped relative to income in the last 20 years, and some people are still moaning? I've got a Dinotte too and its a great little light - fact was 20 years ago, you couldn't have even bought a light without that power without strapping a motorbike battery and light to your bike. 20 years ago, a race-ready bike would have cost me the about a grand or a month a halfs wages, but today's bike will weigh about 5lbs less and have 30% more gears too. There's also far more choice too - I can buy £10 shorts from Aldi, or £135 ones from Assos - it's a free country and nobody's forcing you to buy the stuff. Get out of your time warp or get real!

    Starving people in Africa is real.
    Make believe prices aren't.

    wow - simply stunning statement to make......That is the first one I have read on here for a while that just stunned me.

    It is not relevant and is almost Brent like in it's attempt to make an emotive point innapropriately....
  • PhilofCas
    PhilofCas Posts: 1,153
    glad you liked it, i'm being serious, why not relate the price of 'unnecessary' extravagance to 'real' events ?
  • markyboy2005
    markyboy2005 Posts: 465
    PhilofCas wrote:
    glad you liked it, i'm being serious, why not relate the price of 'unnecessary' extravagance to 'real' events ?

    So you seriously want to link the buying, or not, of expensive bike gear, with the catastrophic man made and natural disasters experienced in some African nations leading to death by starvation. :roll:

    Why stop there? Lets link the "girls in Lycra shorts" thread with the asian paeodiphile phenomenon!!!

    Come on get some perspective man!

    I will continue this ridiculous discussion if you can prove to me in any way shape or form that we could ease the suffering in Africa by removing the ability of people to spend their money on what they want (especially cycling kit).

    I personally find it crass that you would stoop so low as to mention the mass suffering of entire nations to score a point on the price of gear..

    Whilst we are on the subject I notice you have commented on quite few threads about your distaste of people spending their hard earned on "rip off" prices......why can't you just accept that pricing is dictated by market forces. If people don't buy it, then the company has built its business plan wrongly and will fail and disappear....however, these companies are thriving.

    Is this because everyone else is wrong and is being ripped off? I think this is an unlikely explanation.

    The fact is that "different strokes for different blokes" (and blokesses) means that some want cheep and cheerful, some want expensive and exclusive.......and guess what, there are plenty of companies out there that recognise that and cater for all. (That is why VW owns Skoda and Audi, they know that there are many different types of consumer out there....)

    How about you make a suggestion as to how to fix this, as far as I can se you would have the following options:

    1. Government caps prices for certain items in the country - Cap must not exceed £5, gloves £20, bib shorts £15 etc - would you like this?

    2. By some sort of mass persuasion you convince the country that there are limits to what they should spend on any given item and they stick to that. Please note that this would require you to overcome the human natures of greed and a desire for individuality (it's in all of us I am afraid to say) - good luck with that (have you ever looked at Maslow's theory?)

    3. Change political state so that we all earn the same and get the same and a limited importing of products ensures a basic level of all products is avaialable, but Basic is the operative word - skoda anyone?

    So what is the point? If you don't think it is worth it don't buy it and ignore what your neighbour/colleague/nemesis is doing and get on with your life......
  • PhilofCas
    PhilofCas Posts: 1,153
    markyboy2005 wrote:
    PhilofCas wrote:
    glad you liked it, i'm being serious, why not relate the price of 'unnecessary' extravagance to 'real' events ?

    So you seriously want to link the buying, or not, of expensive bike gear, with the catastrophic man made and natural disasters experienced in some African nations leading to death by starvation. :roll: absolutely not, that wasn't my point, your words not mine.

    Why stop there? Lets link the "girls in Lycra shorts" thread with the asian paeodiphile phenomenon!!! can't even pass comment, silly thing to say.

    Come on get some perspective man! - that's what i wanted, a sense of perspective, wasteful spending versus real world problems.

    I will continue this ridiculous discussion if you can prove to me in any way shape or form that we could ease the suffering in Africa by removing the ability of people to spend their money on what they want (especially cycling kit). I've said all i want to, not fussed either way.

    I personally find it crass that you would stoop so low as to mention the mass suffering of entire nations to score a point on the price of gear..don't understand what you mean.

    Whilst we are on the subject I notice you have commented on quite few threads about your distaste of people spending their hard earned on "rip off" prices......you stalking me ?why can't you just accept that pricing is dictated by market forces - greed being the main one. If people don't buy it, then the company has built its business plan wrongly and will fail and disappear....however, these companies are thriving - because we humans don't realise there's more to life than personal possessions.

    Is this because everyone else is wrong and is being ripped off? - in the grand scheme of things yes. I think this is an unlikely explanation.

    The fact is that "different strokes for different blokes" (and blokesses) means that some want cheep and cheerful, some want expensive and exclusive.......and guess what, there are plenty of companies out there that recognise that and cater for all. (That is why VW owns Skoda and Audi, they know that there are many different types of consumer out there....) - True.

    How about you make a suggestion as to how to fix this, as far as I can se you would have the following options: Thanks for granting me three options.

    1. Government caps prices for certain items in the country - Cap must not exceed £5, gloves £20, bib shorts £15 etc - would you like this? won't work, greedy people would be in charge

    2. By some sort of mass persuasion you convince the country that there are limits to what they should spend on any given item and they stick to that. Please note that this would require you to overcome the human natures of greed and a desire for individuality (it's in all of us I am afraid to say) - good luck with that (have you ever looked at Maslow's theory?) - don't tar everyone with the same brush, there are good souls on this earth.

    3. Change political state so that we all earn the same and get the same and a limited importing of products ensures a basic level of all products is avaialable, but Basic is the operative word - skoda anyone? what's wrong with Skoda ?

    So what is the point? If you don't think it is worth it don't buy it and ignore what your neighbour/colleague/nemesis is doing and get on with your life......you need to calm down, no good for your health all this

    Please see above.


    All the best with your future life.
  • markyboy2005
    markyboy2005 Posts: 465
    PhilofCas wrote:
    markyboy2005 wrote:
    PhilofCas wrote:
    glad you liked it, i'm being serious, why not relate the price of 'unnecessary' extravagance to 'real' events ?

    So you seriously want to link the buying, or not, of expensive bike gear, with the catastrophic man made and natural disasters experienced in some African nations leading to death by starvation. :roll: absolutely not, that wasn't my point, your words not mine. No mate they were yours - you wanted to equate Africa and expensive goods, read your own posts

    Why stop there? Lets link the "girls in Lycra shorts" thread with the asian paeodiphile phenomenon!!! can't even pass comment, silly thing to say. - correct, it is a silly thing to say and I said it to emphasis how silly the comments you made were

    Come on get some perspective man! - that's what i wanted, a sense of perspective, wasteful spending versus real world problems. - I mean perspective about your comparisons - there is none

    I will continue this ridiculous discussion if you can prove to me in any way shape or form that we could ease the suffering in Africa by removing the ability of people to spend their money on what they want (especially cycling kit). I've said all i want to, not fussed either way. - good

    I personally find it crass that you would stoop so low as to mention the mass suffering of entire nations to score a point on the price of gear..don't understand what you mean. Try to understand - it's not that difficult - you were being crass - look it up or ask someone to explain

    Whilst we are on the subject I notice you have commented on quite few threads about your distaste of people spending their hard earned on "rip off" prices......you stalking me ?, no, just reading the boards, don't flatter yourself. why can't you just accept that pricing is dictated by market forces - greed being the main one - nope. If people don't buy it, then the company has built its business plan wrongly and will fail and disappear....however, these companies are thriving - because we humans don't realise there's more to life than personal possessions. - as you say below - don't tar everyone with the same brush

    Is this because everyone else is wrong and is being ripped off? - in the grand scheme of things yes. - nope, I am afraid that just because this is your opinion, does not make it right. I think this is an unlikely explanation.

    The fact is that "different strokes for different blokes" (and blokesses) means that some want cheep and cheerful, some want expensive and exclusive.......and guess what, there are plenty of companies out there that recognise that and cater for all. (That is why VW owns Skoda and Audi, they know that there are many different types of consumer out there....) - True. - thanks

    How about you make a suggestion as to how to fix this, as far as I can se you would have the following options: Thanks for granting me three options. - I don't "grant" anything, I state that as far as I can see , these would be options. I also ask you to come up with a solution, which I notice you have not bothered to do!

    1. Government caps prices for certain items in the country - Cap must not exceed £5, gloves £20, bib shorts £15 etc - would you like this? won't work, greedy people would be in charge _ now your getting it

    2. By some sort of mass persuasion you convince the country that there are limits to what they should spend on any given item and they stick to that. Please note that this would require you to overcome the human natures of greed and a desire for individuality (it's in all of us I am afraid to say) - good luck with that (have you ever looked at Maslow's theory?) - don't tar everyone with the same brush, there are good souls on this earth. - Not about tarring people with the same brush it is about accepting basic human traits prevalent in most Human beings - good souls can want to be individuals you know

    3. Change political state so that we all earn the same and get the same and a limited importing of products ensures a basic level of all products is avaialable, but Basic is the operative word - skoda anyone? what's wrong with Skoda ? - when it was the only car available in Easter Europe behind the Iron Curtain, there was a lot wrong with it. The point I am making is that when choice is limited to one - it stifles development and is detremental to the consumer - think before you respond

    So what is the point? If you don't think it is worth it don't buy it and ignore what your neighbour/colleague/nemesis is doing and get on with your life......you need to calm down, no good for your health all this
    - I am possibly the calmest person you could meet, don't presume to know me. You started the thread by complaining about something (and you seem quite heated about it), why don't you accept that your point of view is not the only one....if you can accept that, then one day you may be able to accept that your point of view may not always be correct.....that would be nice wouldn't it?


    Please see above.


    All the best with your future life.
    - How patronising - my past and present life was/is wonderful, I doubt your blessing for the future will carry much weight.

    Lets just call it a day here eh? I think we may not be able to ever see eye to eye on this type of subject due to differing life experiences, I can live with that, hope you can too. Also maybe one day if you ever live in an environment of extreme poverty, you will recognise that the effects of that are far too serious to use in an argument about the price of cycling goods - which is the reason I bothered responding to you in the first place.
  • PhilofCas
    PhilofCas Posts: 1,153
    A bit of a recap is in order:

    I was asked to 'get real' (in respect of prices, of mainly cycling goods, other goods have been mentioned too), to which i made the point that prices of said items weren't 'real' and that starving people are 'real'. That is all i said. Your imagination seems to have got the better of you.

    You have assumed many things about me and made some derogatory comments.

    I do not know you either but i do know you made insulting responses to my replies. Having said that i do not have any axe to grind at all, like i say, i don't know you, i'm honestly perplexed at your outbursts.

    I apologise for my curt responses.
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    There's a very good article about pricing in the UK compared to elsewhere here: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/119660/ ... posed.html

    It realtes to tech products but could equally apply to bikes. As for the poster that said we wouldn't by Assos kit if it was only £15.. I would providing the qualty remained the same, of course it wouldn't. Some cheap kit is great, but a lot of it is utter rubbish that falls apart quickly and is made with no care or attention. I buy Castelli kit as IMH it is excellent, comfy and hard wearing... however I buy it from Italy or the states where is it is cheaper.
  • The BIG GT
    The BIG GT Posts: 655
    This argument is a little redundant as we could all spend less, we rarely need anything we buy. We don't need cars, most people could walk shorter distances instead and use public transport for longer journeys but we like the ease, comfort, sense of security, etc. of a car.

    Does anyone in this country really need all the clothes that they own, all the food they eat, a flatscreen TV, DVD player, etc, etc, etc......

    No, of course not but to say that they are not needed and therefore we should not have them would be ridiculously naiive. :roll:
    .
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    Now living happily at http://www.uk-mtb.com !!
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    It is all about aspiration - for most of us we aspire to better ourselves, and this includes aspiring to own better bike kit. The contrast of our relative wealth to those who have little or nothing of material value may seem a bit ugly, but even at the most deprived level, people are motivated to better their lot, even if that is to merely get a better crop, or get a fresh water supply. Without aspiration, there is little hope.

    In our society, most of us do not want for food, so our aspirations turn to higher level commodities (yes I am afraid Maslow makes sense here). I don't believe it is inherently wrong to do so, what is wrong is to pay prices which are ultimately exploitative to those working in third world sweatshops to produce the goods. Without this consumerism, however, would the third world not be poorer as a result?

    Cycling goods (at least the engineered parts, perhaps clothing is different) are probably not produced in sweat shops, so maybe they are not the best example, but on the whole I believe we should be paying higher prices (not lower) for goods so that the labour that produces them is properly paid. As has been said already, we don't need cycling goods, we want them, and we should pay fairly for them and any other luxury goods we desire.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Quick point on mark-ups. Although I do not work in a bike shop, I know ppl who do, and these are two examples:

    Spec 2d Helmet - bloke bought from shop for £45, it retails at over £100.
    Innertubes - retail for about £3, but they cost just 60-70p.

    Obviously the shops get discount for bulk buying and they need to charge for this service - ie/. if we were to buy straight from the manufacturer (I know this is normally not possible), then we wouldn't be able to get the same prices, but I still think they are making too much.

    As chairman of my uni's cycling society, I can attest to the fact that many people are put off from entering specific bike disciplines due to the cost of all the equipment and clothing. This is a particularly pertinent point as this prevents many ppl entering the sport who would otherwise do so, and then all the consequences that follow from that, not least having poor representation at the Olympics. This point is valid for nearly all sports.

    I know from a friend who was trying to organise a discount for his club at a particular shop (nameless), that he was offered 40% off three set items when purchasing a bike, and was told that the shop was still making a profit...

    When buying from a shop, you need to appreciate that they need to factor in such things as wages, rents and costs, so you cannot say a product that they bought for £10 and being sold for £20 means £10 profit for them. This is why internet shops are generally cheaper - they have fewer costs.

    Personally I always buy the cheapest stuff, not necessaily cheap quality though, the only problem though is that there is very little choice at a certain price range.

    I can appreciate the point on certain items being false economies.

    Country to country comparisions can only be taken at face value, as (I think this has been mentionned eariler) to a large extent, factors within countries for bike shops are determined by factors such as rent, local taxes, wage level etc, and if these are lower in one country than another, then you would expect the prices to be lower.

    I also agree with the points on our society being terribly materialistic, and think it is at the heart of societies cuurent ills, but that is a deep subject...
    Contador is the Greatest
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    edited December 2007
    frenchfighter wrote:
    but I still think they are making too much.
    I am not aware that bike shops are making excessive profits though, they have a tough time especially with components, in competing with the buying power and lower overheads (as a ratio of turnover) of the large online vendors. They also provide service and advice which is costly in terms of time, and must be subsidised by profits on sales.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Why do people think that bike shops should be run at a loss or for zero profits? I expect most people here work for commercial organisations and would be pretty annoyed if they got told there was nothing left at the end of the month to pay their wages - why should people who work in the bike trade be any different? A retail business needs to make a margin of about 30-40% just to break even - there are wages, rent, bills and other costs to pay - by the time you add vat too your £45 helmet is priced at £100. Likewise, many bike shops rely on borrowing / overdrafts to keep going - so interest on loans needs to be made too.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Captain Fagor
    Captain Fagor Posts: 739
    Monty Dog wrote:
    A retail business needs to make a margin of about 30-40% just to break even - there are wages, rent, bills and other costs to pay - by the time you add vat too your £45 helmet is priced at £100.

    That'll be gross margin accountancy then. I suspect most people think in terms of net margin, certainly on this side of the pond.
  • Martin Van Nostrand
    Martin Van Nostrand Posts: 149
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Why do people think that bike shops should be run at a loss or for zero profits?

    Because they are cheap bahstuds. How would people like it if their boss walked up to the and said, "oy!, work for 25% less or I'll hire someone else".

    Although, this is ridiculous, and it's sold out:

    http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=205
    http://commiecanuck.blogspot.com/
  • acorn_user
    acorn_user Posts: 1,137
    My colleagues in Austria told me that when they were starting teaching back in the 60's, they would have to save up for three months or so to buy a bike. Now, they could buy three bikes a week if they wanted to. Consumer goods have become a lot cheaper versus our wages over the last 40 years. However, I think I would have one Steyr-Puch to three cheapo bike shaped objects ;)
  • mrushton
    mrushton Posts: 5,182
    Martin Van Nostrand wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Why do people think that bike shops should be run at a loss or for zero profits?

    Because they are cheap bahstuds. How would people like it if their boss walked up to the and said, "oy!, work for 25% less or I'll hire someone else".

    Although, this is ridiculous, and it's sold out:

    http://www.rapha.cc/index.php?page=205

    No, they've said it's sold out, so it makes it more desirable.
    M.Rushton

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