Oi Scotland

spen666

Can you keep the laughter down- some of us are trying to sleep and hope that in the morning the future seems brighter without McLaren


Home Internationals next summer anyone?

shockedsoshocked

England won't win anything in the foreseeable future with, or without Mclaren.

This is why I support Germany.

pneumatic

I think that you should now all get behind France. After all, they are your nearest neighbours to the South and, since 1066, have been in charge of your affairs.

markyboy2005

Before the last two games Scotland and England played the world rankings has Scotland in 13th place and England in 11th.......

It was fact that if Scotland had beat Italy, we would have gone above England in the world rankings for the 1st time ever.

But with Scotland being beat and England being beat by Croatia.......I'm not sure what happens.....there is still a chance that Scotland may have just sneaked past them anyway......

Now that would be something....no?

spen666

markyboy2005 wrote:

Before the last two games Scotland and England played the world rankings has Scotland in 13th place and England in 11th.......

It was fact that if Scotland had beat Italy, we would have gone above England in the world rankings for the 1st time ever.

But with Scotland being beat and England being beat by Croatia.......I'm not sure what happens.....there is still a chance that Scotland may have just sneaked past them anyway......

Now that would be something....no?

It would mean nothing- roll a dice to decide rankings would be a far more logical system than that used by FIFA for its rankings.

Hmm England 11th in world and Scotland 13th in world- yet neither qualify for the last 16 in a European only tournament. About sums up the rankings

markyboy2005

I'm not sure how the rankings work, but for sure it would be really unlikely if the "rankings" accurately selected the exact teams to make it through to the last 16. Probability is that most of the top 16 European teams should make the last 16, but all of them?

Rankings are based on results over a period of time. Qualification or lack thereof is based on playing Sh%t against Russia and Croatia in your group (short term).

Overall in the last year or so, Scotland's ranking has improved, seems correct as they have been playing well and beating some decent teams.

In the last year or so, England's ranking has got worse due to being beaten by teams with worse rankings than them.

How the club teams perform in europe also impacts the rankings, so it's not all about the national side.

So overall, I guess it is a system to measure a country's overall form reflected over several games.

I like it!

OffTheBackAdam

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

gkerr4

who cares - neither of us wanted to go to Euro2008 anyway - lets try and forget about it.

(a scotsman living in England with more england shirts than scotland ones....)

suze

England better start touting for the finals of these tournaments to be held in England, it's the only way we're going to qualify in the future.

markyboy2005

Actually, I was really hoping we would go through. We have not been in a major tournament for a while and it would have been great to go there.

In Terms of GKerr statement, I disagree. I am extremely proud of Scotlands performance and current stature in world football. It was unfortunate that we were in such a difficult group or maybe we could have done more.....but we did shoot ourselves in the foot against Gerogia.....Scotland has been growing some good young talent in the last 10-15 years and that is starting to show with more and more Scots playing for Scottish teams and playing for them in Europe.

You must remember there are fewer people in Scotland than in London - that gives you some scale as to the mountain we climbed in this campaign.....I just hope we can carry some of the form into the 2010 world cup qualifiers - now South Africa is a place I'd like to visit!

spen666

markyboy2005 wrote:

Actually, I was really hoping we would go through. We have not been in a major tournament for a while and it would have been great to go there.

In Terms of GKerr statement, I disagree. I am extremely proud of Scotlands performance and current stature in world football. It was unfortunate that we were in such a difficult group or maybe we could have done more.....but we did shoot ourselves in the foot against Gerogia.....Scotland has been growing some good young talent in the last 10-15 years and that is starting to show with more and more Scots playing for Scottish teams and playing for them in Europe.

You must remember there are fewer people in Scotland than in London - that gives you some scale as to the mountain we climbed in this campaign.....I just hope we can carry some of the form into the 2010 world cup qualifiers - now South Africa is a place I'd like to visit!

Shame they failed to reach the top (like England also failed). No one remembers those mountaineers expeditions that fail to reach the summit of their personal mountain

ContrelaMontre

Mallory and Irvine

spen666

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Mallory and Irvine

Who?????

Exactly- everyone remembers Hilary & Tensing

andyp

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Mallory and Irvine

It remains hotly disputed as to whether they died on the descent or the ascent though.

wildmoustache

it's for the best guys .. big john terry has retreated to his basildon ranch to polish the hummers ...

the england team are a bunch of fat c***s. unfit, talentless, overpaid, overhyped (which really cuts to it, as this is all about selling sky packages and red tops to the goons).

I love the tired old line ... "they're great individuals ... just don't play well as a team".

No, they're useless individuals, poorly managed, and unsurprisingly don't play well as a team!

ContrelaMontre

andyp wrote:

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Mallory and Irvine

It remains hotly disputed as to whether they died on the descent or the ascent though.

It is not hotly disputed that they failed to achieve a successful ascent. As Mallory's son (I think) said - and as a climber I completely agree with - you have to get back down alive for it to be a successful ascent. You've only done half the job by getting to the summit.

(sorry for going all O/T)

oldwelshman

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

No way.
Croatia has population of 4.5 million and what about Greece?
It has nothing to do with population and number of players, it is more about quality of players, managers, coaches and pride.
Last night showed England are not good enough in all aspects.
On paper England have more than enough good players, just consistently under perform.
I do not advocate total independence for Wales and Scotland but leave the sports alone as that at least gives us a little independence
The vast majority of sportsmen would have no interest in uniting to form a UK team.
Don't quote the British loins, that is only a part time touring rugby team.
If you go down that road, would you enter a European team, Asian team etc?

Keep the teams as they are, keep their identity.
No one suggests these things when the teams are doing ok, only when things go wrong.

spen666

oldwelshman wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

No way.
Croatia has population of 4.5 million and what about Greece?
It has nothing to do with population and number of players, it is more about quality of players, managers, coaches and pride.
Last night showed England are not good enough in all aspects.
On paper England have more than enough good players, just consistently under perform.
I do not advocate total independence for Wales and Scotland but leave the sports alone as that at least gives us a little independence
The vast majority of sportsmen would have no interest in uniting to form a UK team.
Don't quote the British loins, that is only a part time touring rugby team.
If you go down that road, would you enter a European team, Asian team etc?

Keep the teams as they are, keep their identity.
No one suggests these things when the teams are doing ok, only when things go wrong.

how about going a bit further and taking it to the extreme and simply having a world team- we'd never lose then and win every world cup :oops:

wildmoustache

oldwelshman wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

On paper England have more than enough good players, just consistently under perform.
quote]


er ... doesn't that suggest perhaps they are not good players. If not, what is your definition of a good player?

oldwelshman

wildmoustache wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

On paper England have more than enough good players, just consistently under perform.
quote]


er ... doesn't that suggest perhaps they are not good players. If not, what is your definition of a good player?

Oh come on you want me to define what a good player is?
That is not the point, are you teling me that Joe Cole, Steve Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Michael Owen, John Terry, Wayne Rooney, Jermaine Defoe, Shaun Wright Phillips, Gary Neville, Ferdinand, Richards, etc etc etc are not good players? There are many more "good "palyers England have to choose from.
Being good individual players does not guarentee that when you lump them together they make a good team.
Good team managers can form a team, sometimes with players of less ability.
Why do some temas with same players improve and sometimes get worse when managed by different managers.

There are proably many contributing factors as to why England are currently crap, but the players individual ability is not one of them.
I wiash Wales had the players England have to chosse from.

Initial things to sort out would be:
Sack most of the FA.
Limit number of foreign players in Premiership so English Players may get the chance to play with each other more often ( that might sound smutty 8) )
Get a decen footbal pitch

oldwelshman

how about going a bit further and taking it to the extreme and simply having a world team- we'd never lose then and win every world cup :oops:[/quote]
Interesting, but then, who from Britain would be in the team? 8)

spen666

oldwelshman wrote:

how about going a bit further and taking it to the extreme and simply having a world team- we'd never lose then and win every world cup :oops:

Interesting, but then, who from Britain would be in the team? 8)

Well in years gone by we'd have supplied the hooligans to follow the team, but I think the Italians and Eastern europeans are now vying for those positions?

cee

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

Whadaya reckon the national anthem at the start of the game would be. Can't see many scots, welsh or northern irish fans wanting to sing God Save the Queen, Can't see the English fans wanting to sing anything else.

Fact is England were put out of a group that, on paper they should have romped.
Scotland were in a horrendous group and I thought showed progress towards being a decent side.

As far as the rankings are concerned, every sport ranking is the same. The number one tennis player in the world does not win every game they play.

Hopefully Scotlands improved rankings means we get an easier qualification in the World Cup than they got in this years European Champs.

another jacko

I thought that Peter Crouch played well (again), he certainly looked like he was putting in more effort than the rest of them put together. Perhaps because he's not being picked for his club he has the 'hunger' that the rest of them are missing through complacency.

One of the most astounding examples of England's mismanagement is that Jamie Carragher, a talented player who is prepared to sweat blood for his team, now refuses to play for them cos he got messed about so much. Even if he didn't get that regular a game (why not?) he could have been handled better by any half competent people manager.

England would do better if they picked the side from the lower leagues - players who would be honoured and flattered to play for their national side - Quite often we see lower league sides beat premiership sides in cup matches because they play as a team with passion that overcomes any lack of skill (not that there was much skill on show last night!).

wildmoustache

oldwelshman wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

OffTheBackAdam wrote:

How about accepting that the seperate bits of the UK don't have enough good players left to form a team each, so a combined Breat Britain team is the way to go?
It'd cut costs too, only one management team to pay for and not four.

On paper England have more than enough good players, just consistently under perform.
quote]


er ... doesn't that suggest perhaps they are not good players. If not, what is your definition of a good player?

Oh come on you want me to define what a good player is?
That is not the point, are you teling me that Joe Cole, Steve Gerrard, Frank Lampard, Michael Owen, John Terry, Wayne Rooney, Jermaine Defoe, Shaun Wright Phillips, Gary Neville, Ferdinand, Richards, etc etc etc are not good players? There are many more "good "palyers England have to choose from.
Being good individual players does not guarentee that when you lump them together they make a good team.
Good team managers can form a team, sometimes with players of less ability.
Why do some temas with same players improve and sometimes get worse when managed by different managers.

There are proably many contributing factors as to why England are currently crap, but the players individual ability is not one of them.
I wiash Wales had the players England have to chosse from.

Initial things to sort out would be:
Sack most of the FA.
Limit number of foreign players in Premiership so English Players may get the chance to play with each other more often ( that might sound smutty 8) )
Get a decen footbal pitch

look up john terry in a dictionary ... under the word "over-rated". hmm... Jermaine Defoe ... can you really see him lifting the world cup?

Yes, I am telling you those players, by international standards, are not very good. They are wildly over-hyped. The two best ones are Gerrard and Rooney. Gerrard at least has proved himself in the Champions league. The others really are very ordinary players. Highly paid, super-hyped etc. but if you watch most of the players you've named they continually make errors ... positioning errors, poor control, awareness etc. etc.

No, they're pretty ordinary footballers caught up in Murdoch's empire along with the average good england fan.

pedylan

Reminds me of the Partick Thistle joke.

The only way thistle will get into Europe is if there's another war.

As to global teams we've already got Europe playing US at golf. Not much good for a European Championship I grant you.

wildmoustache

pedylan wrote:

Reminds me of the Partick Thistle joke.

The only way thistle will get into Europe is if there's another war.

As to global teams we've already got Europe playing US at golf. Not much good for a European Championship I grant you.

I thought it was guy who claimed he supported a club called "Partickthistlenil"

ContrelaMontre

Pick the best team in Europe

4-4-2

Buffon
Puyol
Zambrotta
Cannavaro
Metzelder
Cristiano Ronaldo
Pirlo
Fabregas
Ribery
Toni
Henry


and tell me in which position you'd prefer to pick an Englishman

Now pick the next best team in Europe

Casillas
Panucci
Evra
Gallas
Chivu
Rosicky
Deco
Gattuso
Van der Vaart
Van Nistelrooy
Koller

All the above are picked from Euro 2008 qualified teams and I don't think either would be improved by the inclusion of English players. Except maybe Rooney.

Edited because I picked a non euro 08 player

wildmoustache

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Pick the best team in Europe

4-4-2

Buffon
Puyol
Zambrotta
Cannavaro
Vidic
Cristiano Ronaldo
Pirlo
Fabregas
Ribery
Toni
Henry


and tell me in which position you'd prefer to pick an Englishman

Now pick the next best team in Europe

Casillas
Panucci
Evra
Gallas
Metzelder
Rosicky
Deco
Gattuso
Van der Vaart
Van Nistelrooy
Koller

All the above are picked from Euro 2008 qualified teams and I don't think either would be improved by the inclusion of English players. Except maybe Rooney.

Agree 100% with your conclusion ... Except that I like Klodden and believe he would strengthen the England football team were he to play.

When was the last time an English player dominated the premiership in the way ronaldo has or van nistelrooy did? Never? If Drogba was english he'd be hailed as the best striker in the world and earning 2x what he earns.

they're 5hite players and the public's been tricked into thinking otherwise.

heavymental

wildmoustache wrote:

When was the last time an English player dominated the premiership in the way ronaldo has or van nistelrooy did? Never? If Drogba was english he'd be hailed as the best striker in the world and earning 2x what he earns.

they're 5hite players and the public's been tricked into thinking otherwise.

Come on, I just don't think thats true. I think with a good, professional coach at the team who inspires confidence England can acheive. We can score goals and win games with the players we have but they just look shell shocked out there. They play like they're afraid of losing. They need a coach who has undounted ability, self confidence, who'll take the flack and who has the right personality to fit the role.

Heres a scenario that could work against any team.....Ashley Cole wins the ball at the back, feeds Joe Cole who cuts inside and plays a ball to Barry who spreads it out to SWP, who whips the ball into Crouch who nods down to Owen, Gerrard, Rooney or even Defoe to finish. I don't see too many weak links there. Its just the confidence to play to the best of their ability and have an understanding with their team mates. They play with the world on their shoulders at the moment. the next couple of years is a chance to build a team and its confidence for the future.

windyphil

Heavymental wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

who whips the ball into Crouch who nods down to Owen, Gerrard, Rooney or even Defoe to finish

Problem is none of those players would be in the box exactly what happened last night! Only time that Crouch actually played for himself and not as a link player, he scored ! Whats wrong with that as an approach for starters next time they play.