Vegetarians Selfish?

spen666

Most non- vegetarians will, if inviting a vegetarian round for a meal, go to the trouble of cooking a non-meat option for the vegetarian

How many vegetarians when inviting round a meat eater go to the trouble of cooking them a meat option?

Porgy

I hope you're not serious

alfablue

spen666 wrote:

How many vegetarians when inviting round a meat eater go to the trouble of cooking them a meat option?

You wanna fight!

Meat eaters (or none I have ever met) have a moral objection to handling, preparing, cooking or eating non-meat foods. Veggie's often will do, so it is not about taking the trouble, it is much deeper than that.

Meat eaters can have a perfectly acceptable meal without meat (some may not believe so, but they have obviously duffed their own brains in through ingesting too many meat-born microbes, hormones and antibiotics).

Didn't we have this scrap on Cyclechat?

Anyway, thats the whole story, its simple, end of.

Ashtrayhead

spen666 wrote:

Most non- vegetarians will, if inviting a vegetarian round for a meal, go to the trouble of cooking a non-meat option for the vegetarian

How many vegetarians when inviting round a meat eater go to the trouble of cooking them a meat option?

It's not selfish, it's educating the ways of a healthier diet.

ContrelaMontre

Still selfish though isn't it.

Ste_S

spen666 wrote:

Most non- vegetarians will, if inviting a vegetarian round for a meal, go to the trouble of cooking a non-meat option for the vegetarian

How many vegetarians when inviting round a meat eater go to the trouble of cooking them a meat option?

Hey why just target the veggies, why not the Jews ? Make them cook you Pork the next time you visit one. Get the Hindu's to cook you a hamburger, just to prove they're not selfish too.

ivancarlos

I do know what you mean. What really gets on my goat is veggies' self righteous attitude. Humans are supposed to eat a bit of meat. Chimps catch the odd monkey in the wild and eat them.

alfablue

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Still selfish though isn't it.

Ignoring someone's moral position is selfish...

Oh damn, I bit! :roll:

alfablue

ivancarlos wrote:

I do know what you mean. What really gets on my goat is veggies' self righteous attitude. Humans are supposed to eat a bit of meat. Chimps catch the odd monkey in the wild and eat them.

We're only self-rightious when you people of lesser moral fibre start having a go at us!

ContrelaMontre

Just because something is a "moral position" doesn't stop it being selfish.

Some Muslims believe chopping the hands off of thieves is a "moral position". Is it selfish of me to disagree with this?

alfablue

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Just because something is a "moral position" doesn't stop it being selfish.

Some Muslims believe chopping the hands off of thieves is a "moral position". Is it selfish of me to disagree with this?

Look, I can take a moral position on not eating or handling meat, it harms no one. I do not extend this to claim rights that cause significant physical harms to others.

It is more an act of selfishness to expect someone to relinquish their harmlessly held moral belief purely for the eating convenience of others.

flattythehurdler

Nice one spen. there is a famous vegetarian restaurant around the corner fom me which was, until recently BYO (short but good wine list now). They always used to ask if they could open the bottle for you when you arrived. I really wanted to bring in a T-bone and ask them to throw it on the grill while they were at it.

Richrd2205

ivancarlos wrote:

I do know what you mean. What really gets on my goat is veggies' self righteous attitude. Humans are supposed to eat a bit of meat. Chimps catch the odd monkey in the wild and eat them.

I'm impressed with your reasoned & accurate argument! "Supposed to," WTF does that mean??? Our mothers would be upset if we didn't? FWIW, we evolved to be able to eat wild meat (which is profoundly different from farmed meat) occasionally (not on a daily or several times a day basis). Whilst you're criticising self-righteousness, do you want to take a wee read of what you're posting?
Oh, & if you're interested about "supposed to" (which I'm taking to mean evolved to rather than anything else) vegetarian males are significantly more attractive to women than their meat-eating counterparts... Does that tell you that we're supposed to eat meat?

contrelamontre wrote:

Just because something is a "moral position" doesn't stop it being selfish.

Some Muslims believe chopping the hands off of thieves is a "moral position". Is it selfish of me to disagree with this?

You're not comparing like with like here at all. Someone not doing something they find profoundly offensive being labelled as selfish & disagreeing with something you find profoundly selfish....
The accurate analogy would be if you were staying in one of these states, would it be selfish for you to refuse to cut hands off on moral grounds?
While we there, would you?

ContrelaMontre

All I can see in the post above is incoherent vitriol, if someone could be so kind as to translate...

On the subject of vitriol, it is funny how a few banal comments have caused so many twisted knickers.

None of my posts have advocated forcing vegetarians to cook me a non-vegetarian meal. I have simply stated that expecting special treatment because of an extremist, fundamentalist moral position is selfish.

N'est pas?

Richrd2205

I must apologise if you found that vitriolic. I was quite sharp about the "supposed to" line (because the idea that we're supposed to do anything is really quite daft IMO), but it seems OK other than that
I must disagree that the comments made are banal & that may be the reason, you find the response disproportionate.
I would also suggest that labelling vegetarianism as fundamentalist & extremist is, in itself, quite a fundamentalist response....
I have never asked for special treatment, so am I safe to ignore your comments?

Porgy

I was a veggie for years and never tried to convert anyone from eating meat. It was the meat eaters who picked fights with me. I tried to keep it to myself but obviously it became fairly obvious that I never ate meat when I went out. And then the argument began. they'd want to know why. Then they'd pick holes in my reasons. Then they'd tell me they'd prefer it if I'd not ram my views down their throats :roll: . I'd never heard the selfish argument though. By the time I'd been a veggie for about 5 years I had few meat-eating friends left.

In the end I gave up and rejoined the meat-eaters.

alfablue

We don't want special treatment, just equal treatment.

For example, when eating out and seeing the 15 meat mains on offer it feels a little insulting to be given one or at best two veggie choices (and thats assuming they are genuinely veggie - I know from the other side of the kitchen door that many chefs assume all cheese is veggie, and many would not hesitate to use chicken stock in the veggie soup!).

As for pub food - I gave up bothering years ago, I mean, one frozen veg lasagna is one too many!

monstadog

vegetarians. shellfish? no, seafood counts as meat


I'll get my coat

ContrelaMontre

Richrd2205 wrote:

I must apologise if you found that vitriolic. I was quite sharp about the "supposed to" line (because the idea that we're supposed to do anything is really quite daft IMO), but it seems OK other than that
I must disagree that the comments made are banal & that may be the reason, you find the response disproportionate.
I would also suggest that labelling vegetarianism as fundamentalist & extremist is, in itself, quite a fundamentalist response....
I have never asked for special treatment, so am I safe to ignore your comments?

I thought it's axiomatic that vegetarianism is fundamentalist as it rejects all eating of meat and meat products. Not some, not most, all. That seems a pretty fundamentalist viewpoint. In fact most vegetarians would argue that killing animals is always wrong. Surely this is fundamentalism based on someone's moral position.

I'll retract the extremist bit for the time being, as it is probably unfair to say all are extremist.

If you have never asked or expected to be served a vegetarian meal in someone else's house then indeed you are not selfish.

If you expect to be served a vegetarian meal you are selfish.

If you expect someone else to refrain from eating meat you are very selfish.

If you refuse to handle meat/provide meat you are selfish*, but not as selfish as the person (Spen?) who expects it of you!

*I have a feeling a few might disagree with this, but think before you type please as just because I've said it is selfish doesn't mean I've said it's wrong. By selfish I mean that it is entirely for your own beliefs. It is not an altruistic action. To serve or handle meat if you are vegetarian would be truly altruistic.

alfablue

ContrelaMontre wrote:

Richrd2205 wrote:

I must apologise if you found that vitriolic. I was quite sharp about the "supposed to" line (because the idea that we're supposed to do anything is really quite daft IMO), but it seems OK other than that
I must disagree that the comments made are banal & that may be the reason, you find the response disproportionate.
I would also suggest that labelling vegetarianism as fundamentalist & extremist is, in itself, quite a fundamentalist response....
I have never asked for special treatment, so am I safe to ignore your comments?

I thought it's axiomatic that vegetarianism is fundamentalist as it rejects all eating of meat and meat products. Not some, not most, all. That seems a pretty fundamentalist viewpoint. In fact most vegetarians would argue that killing animals is always wrong. Surely this is fundamentalism based on someone's moral position.

I'll retract the extremist bit for the time being, as it is probably unfair to say all are extremist.

If you have never asked or expected to be served a vegetarian meal in someone else's house then indeed you are not selfish.

If you expect to be served a vegetarian meal you are selfish.

If you expect someone else to refrain from eating meat you are very selfish.

If you refuse to handle meat/provide meat you are selfish*, but not as selfish as the person (Spen?) who expects it of you!

*I have a feeling a few might disagree with this, but think before you type please as just because I've said it is selfish doesn't mean I've said it's wrong. By selfish I mean that it is entirely for your own beliefs. It is not an altruistic action. To serve or handle meat if you are vegetarian would be truly altruistic.

With this more reasoned response I find I am starting to share some common ground with you. Veggie's could be seen as fundamentalists (and maybe extremists), but no more so than those that MUST have meat in every meal.

I would never expect to be served a veggie meal in a private household, but I expect not to get grief when I politely decline to eat (commercial restaurants are a different matter).

I would never expect another to refrain from eating meat.

I would not, however, handle or prepare meat for another. Yes this could be selfish, alternatively, it could be seen as an act of altruism to animals - a greater good than merely satisfying the meat needs of one or a few people for one meal.*

* I appreciate that altruism towards animals is unlikely to be considered seriously by those who don't regard animals with the respect I do.

another jacko

Meat in the diet is essential for a healthy sense of humour.

ContrelaMontre

alfablue wrote:

With this more reasoned response I find I am starting to share some common ground with you. Veggie's could be seen as extremists, but no more so than those that MUST have meat in every meal.

I would never expect to be served a veggie meal in a private household (commercial restaurants is a different matter).

I would never expect another to refrain from eating meat.

I would not, however, handle or prepare meat for another. Yes this could be selfish, alternatively, it could be seen as an act of altruism to animals - a greater good than merely satisfying the meat needs of one or a few people for one meal.

That's because I was playing advocate to Spen's Devil!

I'm certainly not a carnivore-fundamentalist or anti-veggie activist. Although I do fundamentally disagree with vegetarianism I am also very happy to forego meat and do not eat it every day. I also have 'sampled' vegetarianism as I gave up meat for Lent a couple of years ago (including all fish and seafood and all meat-imitation products unlike most 'veggies').

I like to ruffle feathers - especially on a dull dreary afternoon in the office!

alfablue

I like to ruffle feathers - especially on a dull dreary afternoon in the office!

Yeah, you and Spen too!

I don't like the "unlike most veggies" bit - real veggies don't eat animal (or fish) products, but there are, I admit, some that claim to be veggie who do so fraudulently! But don't tar us all.

spen666

Its been illuminating to read the answers on here.


Most people ignored the question asked and instead started to trot out the stereo typical arguments about why they are or are not vegetarians. That is a matter of personal choice and meat eaters and meat avoiders have every right to that viewpoint.

The issue I was trying to get at are those vegetarians ( not all) who expect ( even if not asking for it expressly)a vegetarian meal when dining at the home of a non-vegetarian BUT who would not offer a meat eater a non- vegetarian option when cooking for them [ the same is true the other way round- but for various reasons is likely to be far rarer]

alfablue

Why assume, if they are " not asking for it expressly", that they are indeed expecting this?

ivancarlos

alfablue wrote:

I don't like the "unlike most veggies" bit - real veggies don't eat animal (or fish) products, but there are, I admit, some that claim to be veggie who do so fraudulently! But don't tar us all.

Not even the teensiest bit self-righteous at all then?

alfablue

ivancarlos wrote:

alfablue wrote:

I don't like the "unlike most veggies" bit - real veggies don't eat animal (or fish) products, but there are, I admit, some that claim to be veggie who do so fraudulently! But don't tar us all.

Not even the teensiest bit self-righteous at all then?

What the **** is self-righteous about that then? I don't like being labelled as something I'm not - do you?

spen666

alfablue wrote:

Why assume, if they are " not asking for it expressly", that they are indeed expecting this?

Who is assuming anything?

You are twisting what I said round. I am specifically talking about a specific type of person ie the one who expects.
This is not to do with the host making an assumption


Try stepping back from your entrenched pro vegetarianism attitude and consider the bigger question

ivancarlos

Is there any correlation between not eating meat and over sensitivity?

ContrelaMontre

alfablue wrote:

I like to ruffle feathers - especially on a dull dreary afternoon in the office!

Yeah, you and Spen too!

I don't like the "unlike most veggies" bit - real veggies don't eat animal (or fish) products, but there are, I admit, some that claim to be veggie who do so fraudulently! But don't tar us all.

I'd say most veggies do eat fish or meat imitation products. I thought that was fair.

If you really want to be vegetarian don't eat fcucking veggie haggis, bacon or sausages!!!

ivancarlos

Is it true that Hitler was a vegetarian? :twisted: