De Rosa Repair

twowheeledwriter

Lysander - Merry Chrismas. Sorry, didn't mean to imply anything about you personally.

Really, a shop should treat all customers who have a genuine complaint with dignity and respect, regardless of the sum spent. The staff of Sigma know nothing of your personal circumstances - for all they know you are some City type who's blowing a very small part of his annual bonus (knowing Kingston and the surrounding area, that's more than likely). But that's none of their business and should have no bearing on how they treat their customers. I have had no problems there; also I've never spent more than 60 quid at a time.

I just don't think that the amount of money spent should dictate a sliding scale of respect from the highest to lowest.

giant_man

It's a shame some bike shops are like this, they are quick enough to see you a bike costing a few grand but just a little slower in sorting it out when things go wrong.

This is a classic case of bad customer satisfaction.

top_bhoy

Going back to Lysanders original post on Pg1, is the supplier/distributor, Jim Walker, the same Jim Walker involved with Omega/Enigma bikes?

giant_man

Yes I think that business continues under his name but with no involvement from him, though I could be wroing. I think he has pooled all his energies and know-how into Enigma.

He occasionally comes on this forum I do believe but couldn't varify that.

bratters

Lysander wrote:

In March 2006 I bought a De Rosa King X Light from Sigma Sport. In August this year it developed a crack where the seat stays join the dowwntube and crossbar. I took it back to the shop and they said they would send it back to De Rosa at the start of September. I have still not heard anything! The shop says they are chasing it up with the suppliers Jim Walker. As the frame is still under warranty they should just give me a new frame; what do you think?. Would welocme any comments from anybody who has has similar problems.

I've just read through this thread and I think a fresh view may help clear the air.
Firstly a bike shop is just a retail outlet like any other. It does not enjoy special dispensation from the laws of the land that govern consumer rights. The fact that the bike comes from Italy via an importer is irrelevant - especially these days when most things seem to come from China!

The customer deals with the retailer and his claim is against that retailer and no one else. As the item is over one year old (NB 12 months is not necessarily a defining or limiting period of consumer rights in fact) you presumably have a written warranty which has certain conditions attached to it. These may give an indication of what to expect timewise in these circumstances though I doubt it. You should read these carefully but whatever they say they cannot take away your legal rights and the warranty should be honoured by the manufacturer's agent, ie the seller.

The procedure should be: you complain to the shop; the shop repairs/replaces offending item. If this is not possible, the shop refunds the cash. (The shop claims similarly against importer/wholesaler/agent who in his turn goes back to manufacturer. ie everything goes back up the line but this is of NO CONCERN TO THE RETAIL CUSTOMER)

Clearly with a limited supply item like your frame some understanding of reality must take place and the wonderful legal term "reasonable" comes into play. In this instance it would be reasonable to expect a replacement frame to be supplied from Italy at the outside within 28 days and this could be fitted by the retailer. Failing this, it would be reasonable for a new bike to be supplied at the outside within 28 days.

It is also reasonable to assume that if someone in this country retails ANY ITEM he has the resources and back up to repair and/or replace the item he sells within a reasonable period. If not, he's asking for trouble, as in this case. One might ask: would a normal person knowingly buy an item that in the event of failure, would take months to repair? Answer: No. Bicycles are nothing special and It is no more reasonable to expect you to wait for your bike to be repaired in Italy than it would be to expect you to wait for your car to be repaired in Japan. Utter horlicks.

Unfortunately things have gone a bit far here nevertheless I suggest that you have a read of the link below and then acquaint the dealer with the facts of life. If you have not already agreed to some ludicrous "do whatever you think is best" arrangement, give him a date - whatever you think reasonable - and state clearly in writing "meet it or pay out."

You may need to get a solicitor in but I fancy the mere mention of a £200 per hour costs bill will help make sense prevail. You'll get your money back anyway.

Good luck. (I had De Rosa dealer trouble some years ago as well - very messy!!!)

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi- ... 3-1011.txt

HarryB

Bratters, fantastic post and excellent advice.

Lysander, you've been pissed about for long enough. geti ti sorted

bratters

Further to the above, if everybody's not bored mindless, the problem for De Rosa is that they're operating part-time in the UK

Think of importing Piaggios or Ferraris - you establish an importer/base and set up a chain of retail dealers. You fill your warehouse with stock, spares and expertise and then you set up courses to train your mechanics. The whole enterprise is self-sufficient.

But De Rosa haven't been prepared to make a proper investment here so they're caught between two stools. Either they put some cash in and back up their dealers properly or they pull out and just sell factory direct from Italy. They can't have it both ways.

It's a matter of business, not bikes.

Shavedlegs

Jim Walker and the Jim Walker now behind Enigma are one and the same. He left Jim Walker a while ago now but the company continues without him or a name change. He more or less took over Omega (some staff atleast) rebranded it Enigma. He up held the outstanding orders Omega had which he had no obligation to do and little if anything to gain.

I don't know him but I know dealers who talk very highly of him. He has nothing to do with Jim Walker the distributor now, but of course Lysander problem really lies with Sigma Sport anyway.

Get your money back Lysander, now. The local press has always worked for me, they always struggle to fill the pages, I've taken a photographer and a reporter inside a shop twice and both times I've been compensated immediately.

pedylan

The UK government have set up an online and telephone information service which can help establish what your basic rights are and how to go about enforcing them.

I guess you either follow the advice to go public or you try to assert your rights more fromally with the assistance of consumer direct. Try this link

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

I used them to decide on a tack with an online supplier of a duff digital camera. It helped in refuting the bullshit they initially responded with and did mean I at least didn't have to play the game the supplier's way.

Lysander

Bratters, Shaved Legs, and Pedylan. Thanks for the great advice. As you have suggested I dont think I have been firm enough with them. Trouble is I hate any sort of altercation.
Once the Christmas break is over I shall try a more direct approach. My father is a solicitor so perhaps a letter from him on headed note paper may get a more helpful response.

bratters

Hi Lysander if you're out there. Did you ever get your problem satisfactorily resolved?

Lysander

Hi Bratters,
Well fingers crossed I should be getting my frame back at the end of this month. De Rosa are going to re-lacquer the frame. I took my frame into Sigma on the 13th of August last year! I have only manged to get this far by going into the shop and telling them that I'd had enough and making very clear that I wasn't going to be messed around any longer.
I stressed the fact that my contract was with them and it was up to them to deal with this. I still had to make many phone calls and faxes after this to get them moving.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a bike from Sigma Sport in Kingston is think long and hard. They are very happy to make a sale but when things go belly up they will pass the buck. The frame was still under warranty after all.

I will let you know when I finally get my frame back.

giant_man

Lysander wrote:

Hi Bratters,
Well fingers crossed I should be getting my frame back at the end of this month. De Rosa are going to re-lacquer the frame. I took my frame into Sigma on the 13th of August last year! I have only manged to get this far by going into the shop and telling them that I'd had enough and making very clear that I wasn't going to be messed around any longer.
I stressed the fact that my contract was with them and it was up to them to deal with this. I still had to make many phone calls and faxes after this to get them moving.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a bike from Sigma Sport in Kingston is think long and hard. They are very happy to make a sale but when things go belly up they will pass the buck. The frame was still under warranty after all.

I will let you know when I finally get my frame back.

Good luck with it lysander, i too hope you get a result mate, you have been treated so badly over all this. Sigma Sport were always reputed to be one of the better bike outlets but hopefully that will change now. That's all they deserve.

bratters

I suppose most of us don't think to ask what the service/repair position is when we're buying our shiny new steeds - especially if they 're a bit upmarket and costly.

Not good publicity for De Rosa but a classic Carpe Diem to all bike buyers.

Hope it all works out well for you in the end. Do let us know.

aracer

You have to wonder how many sales of high end bikes Sigma / DeRosa are likely to lose over this whole sorry saga publicised on a widely read internet site. I know I certainly wouldn't consider dealing with either of them now if I was in that market - somebody needs to forward them a link to this thread!

Special K

Does anyone here feel like spending £4500 at Sigma Sport?

£4500 is a lot of money. Gross it up for income tax and it's closer to £7500 off your gross annual salary (if you're a higher rate payer, which if your buying de rosa you probably are).

Lysander you couldn't pay me £7500 to be as patient as you! Good luck with your frame and happy riding.

Mercury-10

Ha ! its now march and still havent got my Protos, would I buy another Oh,No! not on your nelly :oops:

Lysander

Hello everyone,
I have still not got my bike back! I was told on the 25th of January that it would be twenty days plus shipping. I e-mailed Mark the manager at Sigma yesterday but have not had a reply. I'm starting to find it quite funny. I think I must have lost my mind!
I have said this before but a few months after I got the bike the black anodized finish started to come off the spokes on the drive side of the rear wheel. I took the wheels back to the shop and they said they would deal with it. Nine months later I finally got the wheels back! Thats Sigmas idea of good customer service. I will let you know when I finally get my bike back.

batch78

Lysander, this is absolutely disgusting behaviour now, Sigma have again not upheld their end of the deal, go to the shop demand your money back and finally end this.

giant_man

My god i would have thought you'd have got a result by now lysander. Abysmal service.

Aggieboy

Right! This thread is driving me nuts. I've sent an email to Sigma with a link to this discussion. I have asked if they would like to reply as other shops eg Condor and Planet X do when criticised. Let battle commence.

'Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care.'

Steve928

bratters wrote:

Not good publicity for De Rosa but a classic Carpe Diem to all bike buyers.

Bratters, think you might be confusing your Carpe Diems with your Caveat Emptors

fossyant

I'm surprised you haven't wrapped a crank arm around someone's head by now..... argh.

Going custom built then on my next bike hearing stuff like this ..... :shock:

Lysander

Hi Everyone,
I got an e-mail from Mark the manager on Friday to say that my frame is back at the warehouse. So I should fingers crossed have it back for Easter.

top_bhoy

Some good news at last. Did he say if it was fixed?

Lysander

Hi
Apparently its been re-lacqured. So yes I still cant beleive I'm getting it back after all this time. I will have it for the Easter holiday which will be great. Thanks to everyone on here who has given me advice. Especially Bratters for a brilliant post.

4kicks

You know I love and adore all things Italian (am married to one!), and would always pick an "italian style" over the ubiuquitous Trek-alize-dale, but comparing this thread to the one of the Guy with the specialized, Tarmac I think it was, who got sent a new bike cos they didnt reckon it was sufficently clear that you couldnt fit a 13 tooth smallest cog on his old one, im afraid my cash may be going to the US next time..

Mercury-10

I have sent three frames back to de rosa, and the wait always seems to be about 4 months, and that is with constant nagging, all three frames with waranty issues, must say I have had no problem with De Rosa changing the frames its just the wait, and the constant promises which are all hollow, I really cant complain because I started with a tango and have upgraded each time with a little more cash, so over three years have tryed three bikes and ended with a Protos, so all good really as long as you have patience, oh yea and send bike back in November to getback in March,

top_bhoy

Mercury-10 wrote:

I have sent three frames back to de rosa, and the wait always seems to be about 4 months, and that is with constant nagging, all three frames with waranty issues, must say I have had no problem with De Rosa changing the frames its just the wait, and the constant promises which are all hollow, I really cant complain because I started with a tango and have upgraded each time with a little more cash, so over three years have tryed three bikes and ended with a Protos, so all good really as long as you have patience, oh yea and send bike back in November to getback in March,

Let me get this straight. In over 3 years of ownership of assorted frames, they have had them for a total of 1 year approximately. I'm surprised you go back for more to be honest, it just doesn't seem to be worth it..

Mercury-10

unfortunately locked into De rosa, because they would not give me my money back I did ask this time but what do you do , take them to court? so just kept changing frames maybe Ill be lucky this time, but........ still got a two year warranty left, hmmmm.... not ideal I know.