De Rosa Repair

Lysander

In March 2006 I bought a De Rosa King X Light from Sigma Sport. In August this year it developed a crack where the seat stays join the dowwntube and crossbar. I took it back to the shop and they said they would send it back to De Rosa at the start of September. I have still not heard anything! The shop says they are chasing it up with the suppliers Jim Walker. As the frame is still under warranty they should just give me a new frame; what do you think?. Would welocme any comments from anybody who has has similar problems.

giant_man

Dear oh dear what dreadful service! I do sympathise with you. They should definitely give you a new frame. As per usual your beef is with the LBS and not the manufacturer.

Good luck with this. You should contact Jim Walker's directly if Sigma isn't doing anything for you, this may move something hopefully.

colint

Do you know where the frame is ? Is it with Jim Walker or has in gone back to De Rosa. I assume they have to check that it's not crash damage and that it's due to a manufacturing defect. If Sigma can't tell you ring Jim Walkers. If they won;t help, ring De Rosa direct. I had a small pronlem, rang the factory and Christiano De Rosa sorted it personally. The factory are notoriously slow in terms of service, so you will need to chase them regularly.

I'd speak to your trading standards as well, once you start quoting legislation at retailers things tend to move along quicker. Good luck

Captain Fagor

Lysander - I hope you get your problems sorted. Get on the phone and start breaking some heads. Leave it too long and you'll be treated like a patsy. Send e-mails too.

When writing complaint letters, I tend to go for the factual, courteous approach. But be sure not to forget the thinly-veiled threat hinting at spreading your dissatisfaction with the retailer, distributor, manufacturer widely within your numerous contacts in the cycling community!

colint

Good advice, I had to deal with 2 complaining customers last week, guess which one I sorted first ? The one who kept calling me and chewing my ass off.

Lysander

I phoned Sigma about ten days ago. They said they would chase up Jim Walker the supplers. Appaerntly the frame is still in Italy; its been there for 10 weeks! I'm so fed up with Sigma now. I've had problems with the before with Campag Neutron wheels that took 9 months to resolve!

colint

I think you should contact Jim Walker and De Rosa, keep phoning them until you get a reply. De Rosa are slow, but if you don't chase you'll be waiting forever. Have a look on the forum on the De ROsa website and you'll see lots of complaints re delays

peanut

wouldn't surprise me if your lbs didn't actually send your frame back when they said they would. They have to pack it up and fill in loads of stupid forms etc its a big hassle and they probably put it off because you were 'nt chasing them.
I would write to them and ask them to confirm the exact date that they returned your frame to De Rosa then ask them for a contact address at De Rosa so they know you mean business.
Personaly I would give them a date by which to either respond in writing or replace the frame or you will pass the issue to your local ofice of fair trading on such an such a date.
You could also threaten to take the matter to a small claims court although without the frame and a engineers report it would be difficult to prove anything. Sigma or DeRosa could claim you have abused the frame .
You could claim off your house contents insurance maybe

andyp

Lysander wrote:

I phoned Sigma about ten days ago. They said they would chase up Jim Walker the supplers. Appaerntly the frame is still in Italy; its been there for 10 weeks! I'm so fed up with Sigma now. I've had problems with the before with Campag Neutron wheels that took 9 months to resolve!

How is the delay with De Rosa Sigma's fault exactly?

This may sound harsh, but personally I think you'd be better off chasing Sigma, Jim Walker and De Rosa than voicing your concerns on here as it has little effect other than to make you feel a bit better.

As others have said, be a pain in the arse and if you're not happy with the person who is dealing with it at Sigma ask to speak to the manager or even the owners.

Lysander

I Have chased them and keep doing so. I have voiced my views on here so other people can know what kind of customer service to expect from Sigma when you buy a £4500 bike from them.

andyp

Lysander wrote:

I Have chased them and keep doing so. I have voiced my views on here so other people can know what kind of customer service to expect from Sigma when you buy a £4500 bike from them.

What more do you expect them to do? They sold you a bike and when it was presented back to them with a fault they have returned it to the manufacturer. They've upheld their end of the deal.

Shavedlegs

I'd expect a replacement from Sigma and then let them argue with their suppliers.

I know bikes are expensive, but that is way it works with other goods.

Lysander

I have had problems with the bike in the past and I have found that they always drag their feet. It took them nine months to resolve the probelm I had with the Neutron wheels that I speced with the bike.

andyp

Shavedlegs wrote:

I'd expect a replacement from Sigma and then let them argue with their suppliers.

I know bikes are expensive, but that is way it works with other goods.

Do you really think a bike shop carries so much stock of all models that they can just replace any frame they happen to sell?

De Rosa make less than 10,000 frames a year of which I'd expect no more than a few hundred end up in the UK. Jim Walker may have stock but I doubt he's prepared to loan out a frame worth £2000 to someone then have to take the hit on it when he has to sell it as a used frame once it's returned. I very much doubt it.

I can understand why Lysander is fed up with the situation but slagging off a shop isn't going to solve anything is it? In fact, one imagines if anyone from Sigma were to read this it wouldn't exactly encourage them to expedite the frame would it?

Lysander

I know andyp you are right this is not the most constructive use of time; but it does like you said make me feel better!
Shavedlegs is right in the sense that my contract was with SIgma and not with Jim Walker or De Rosa. They do owe me.
As for upsetting Sigma I'm just getting to the point were I'm past caring.

Shavedlegs

I like Sigma, I've always recieved good advice and never had a problem with anything I've bought from there.

No one likes it when a product is faulty. If you are in the business of selling £2000 frames then I'm sorry when they are not of merchantable quality you need to replace £2000 frames, and then get a new frame from the manufacturer or your supplier.

I had a faulty boiler installed, I demanded a new one. I didn't wait for it to be sent back to Potterton etc. I don't see why bikes should be any different.

I don't expect Sigma to have them in stock, but if they had one in the first place they can get another. I also appreciate the bike business is famous for small profit margins but a faulty bike should be replaced by the shop in my book.

It is okay to seek support and advice on this forum when dealing with an issue like this.

andyp

I've dealt with De Rosa directly before and found them to be a little brusque but they did what they said they'd do when they'd said they'd do it. Which isn't always the case in Italy. I've never dealt with Jim Walker but when they took over the UK distribution deal for De Rosa I think they promised De Rosa a lot more sales. Complaints like yours will do little to assist with that.

Cristiano De Rosa, who runs the commercial side of the company, speaks very good English so personally I'd go direct, either via phone or email, and find out from him what's going on. The trouble with having an agent in the UK is that too many people get involved in the chain of communication and you never know what's going on.

pliptrot

Seems to me that when you put that sort of money down everyone needs to be less indolent. I'd expect deRosa to put a new one in the post to you immediately. As for upsetting Sigma (and this being a demotivator as suggested) I'd say if that were a possibility then it says all you need to know about that supplier. If the carrot (spending something close to the national average monthly salary on a frame) hasn't worked then the stick is perhaps necessary.

Thanks to the original poster. I can add DeRosa and Sigma to my s*&tlist.

andyp

pliptrot wrote:

Seems to me that when you put that sort of money down everyone needs to be less indolent. I'd expect deRosa to put a new one in the post to you immediately. As for upsetting Sigma (and this being a demotivator as suggested) I'd say if that were a possibility then it says all you need to know about that supplier. If the carrot (spending something close to the national average monthly salary on a frame) hasn't worked then the stick is perhaps necessary.

Thanks to the original poster. I can add DeRosa and Sigma to my s*&tlist.

Fair enough. But if you did that every time someone complained about bike shop service on here then you'd be forever searching for a new shops to use.

Personally I think it makes sense to build a relationship with your LBS by using them for most of your needs. Then when you do have a problem then know you and you know them and you can resolve it face to face. This is certainly my experience.

Finally, remember you've only heard one side of the story.

Shavedlegs

In my view Sigma still remains one of the best bike shops in the land. The staff really know their stuff and always have time for the customer. I'm surprised they haven't communicated better with you.

I'm a huge fan of my LBS, APEX cycles in Clapham too. In my early days I used to buy all sorts of the internet to upgrade my bike and fail to fix it on my bike properly. They always sorted it out and never asked for payment. Chances are I bought something anyway.

giant_man

andyp wrote:

pliptrot wrote:

Seems to me that when you put that sort of money down everyone needs to be less indolent. I'd expect deRosa to put a new one in the post to you immediately. As for upsetting Sigma (and this being a demotivator as suggested) I'd say if that were a possibility then it says all you need to know about that supplier. If the carrot (spending something close to the national average monthly salary on a frame) hasn't worked then the stick is perhaps necessary.

Thanks to the original poster. I can add DeRosa and Sigma to my s*&tlist.

Fair enough. But if you did that every time someone complained about bike shop service on here then you'd be forever searching for a new shops to use.

Personally I think it makes sense to build a relationship with your LBS by using them for most of your needs. Then when you do have a problem then know you and you know them and you can resolve it face to face. This is certainly my experience.

Finally, remember you've only heard one side of the story.

What your loyalty to De Rosa is I don't know. At the end of the day lysander paid a lot of dosh for a bike which is fautly. The LBS concerned, Sigma Sport is responsible, and they don't sound like they want to know, which is disgusting customer service in my book.

I was thinking of talking to Sigma about a custom Seven myself and after hearing about this I don't think I'll bother. As a 'pro' bike shop Sigma Sport should be acting on the side of the customer here and they're not bothering by the sounds of it.

It hardly puts any confidence in someone wanting a similar product. As for De Rosa, this doesn't really surprise me. Having heard of problems with paint on the Idols in the past, and now this, no manufacturer is infallible, and when something goes wrong, they should sort it out.

As for going to De Rosa directly (whatever language they speak), this is why you have an LBS and indeed a distributor. They should be acting on behalf of the customer. I think overall it's very bad customer service and at this level of premium cycling marque, something should be happening.

andyp

giant mancp wrote:

What your loyalty to De Rosa is I don't know. At the end of the day lysander paid a lot of dosh for a bike which is fautly. The LBS concerned, Sigma Sport is responsible, and they don't sound like they want to know, which is disgusting customer service in my book.

Disgusting customer service? Have you read the original posting? Sigma have returned the frame to the importers and chased them up on Lysander's behalf. I can understand his frustration but what else are they meant to do? Fall to their knees and beg forgiveness?

I really don't understand what the problem is bar the fact that things aren't progressing as fast as Lysander would like. He's returned the bike to the place he bought it from, they've returned it to Jim Walker, who has returned it to De Rosa. As yet we don't know the outcome but, if my experiences with De Rosa are anything to go by, the problem will either be fixed or a new frame will be sent.

Yet here we are, at the 21st posting on a thread that sullies the reputation of three different companies for no real reason other than the fact that expectations haven't been managed well. It's hardly criminal is it?

Lysander

No its not a criminal offence but its not very good either. I spent £4500 on that bike. In August 2006 I had a probelm with the anodized finish on the Neutron wheels that I speced with the bike. It took them nine months to finally fit new spokes to the wheel concerend. I hope I wont be waiting as long over this.
My contract is with Sigma not with Jim Walker or De Rosa.

top_bhoy

andyp wrote:

Yet here we are, at the 21st posting on a thread that sullies the reputation of three different companies for no real reason other than the fact that expectations haven't been managed well. It's hardly criminal is it?

Whose name would you sully because one, two or three of the named companies are at fault? They can't all be blameless, one of them has to take responsibility for Lysanders shocking treatment. The real reason, THE ONLY REASON, that Lysander has mentioned this topic at all on this site is that he is no doubt past the 'listening to excuses and buck passing' stage from all the participant companies in this saga. Sigma, Jim Walker and DeRosa all need a swift kick up the ass!

I wish Lysander luck in his quest!

giant_man

Absolutely! I totally agree and I would feel exactly the same way as lysander if I had paid out 4 and a half grand, and been treated this way. These companies are full of the hype and glamour and promises to sell bikes like this but when something goes wrong, they don't want to know.

twowheeledwriter

To quote from the original post:

In March 2006 I bought a De Rosa King X Light from Sigma Sport. In August this year it developed a crack where the seat stays join the dowwntube and crossbar. I took it back to the shop and they said they would send it back to De Rosa at the start of September. I have still not heard anything! The shop says they are chasing it up with the suppliers Jim Walker. As the frame is still under warranty they should just give me a new frame; what do you think?. Would welocme any comments from anybody who has has similar problems.

Does this sound like "shocking treatment"? Hardly.

These companies are full of the hype and glamour and promises to sell bikes like this but when something goes wrong, they don't want to know.

Doesn't sound to me like they don't want to know... Admit it - many of us are susceptible to this "hype and glamour" - it's part of what entices us to spend large amounts of money on bling. It's all part of the consumerist society in which we live. A bike's a bike - and Sigma is a shop peopled by humans (as is Jim Walker and De Rosa) and sometimes our interactions with them aren't perfect. I'd advise to just keep asking politely for information and don't get encouraged by forum members to feel that you have be treated in a shocking manner - it's not like anyone at Sigma, Jim Walker or De Rosa told you to f*** off, is it?

Aren't some posters getting this out of proportion?

andyp

Top_Bhoy wrote:

Whose name would you sully because one, two or three of the named companies are at fault? They can't all be blameless, one of them has to take responsibility for Lysanders shocking treatment. The real reason, THE ONLY REASON, that Lysander has mentioned this topic at all on this site is that he is no doubt past the 'listening to excuses and buck passing' stage from all the participant companies in this saga. Sigma, Jim Walker and DeRosa all need a swift kick up the ass!

I wish Lysander luck in his quest!

I repeat, show me evidence of "shocking treatment". A bike frame has gone back to the manufacturer, sent via the retailer and the importer, for assessment. It's taken longer than the owner would like and he isn't happy. There is no evidence of shocking treatment, rather expectations have not been set and managed correctly.

Too often this forum becomes like Salem, someone whinges about something and some people rush in to help burn the witch. :roll:

I too hope that Lysander gets his frame either replaced or repaired and returned to him soon.

top_bhoy

The time it has taken without any news, it could be implied that Sigma, Jim Walker or De Rosa have told him to f*** off!! As the bike seems to have disappeared into thin air, someone (and I expect that to be Sigma as the seller), should at least have the decency to tell the guy where his bike is and when he can expect to receive it back - not difficult is it.

twowheeledwriter

The time it has taken without any news, it could be implied that Sigma, Jim Walker or De Rosa have told him to f*** off!! As the bike seems to have disappeared into thin air, someone (and I expect that to be Sigma as the seller), should at least have the decency to tell the guy where his bike is and when he can expect to receive it back - not difficult is it.

I suppose that's all it takes on both sides - decency - a little bit of information and communication could make this all better. As it is, the discussion of this has descended into talk of "shocking treatment" when all that has happened is there has been no news - what about the assumption "no news is good news" - or at least "no news is... no news". Not necessarily anything sinister going on. And I'm sure Sigma et al would actually (and actively) like to keep their customers happy - it makes for a longer term relationship that translates into money.

Still, it could be someone has cocked up. But again, as I said above, let's not get this out of proportion.

top_bhoy

Is it not 'shocking treatment' when there has been no news communicated to the owner of what is happening to his 4500 quid bike after 10 weeks and no-one in the chain wanting to take control.

He has chased it up and is still awaiting an answer - even if its only to be told someone in the chain aren't returning their calls. What more can he do but air his concerns in public asking for advice.

Its not life threatening but put yourself in his shoes after waiting 10 weeks with hardly an inspiring answer to his concerns. How many would be so patient - I think he has been pretty tolerant so far. Bad customer service is staring you in the face and yet some people seem all too willing to accept it.

The only caveat I would put in all of this is that it is only one side of the story we're hearing but reading it again, I have no reason to doubt Lysanders version of events..

Shavedlegs

Lysander,

Why not give Sigma a call today and see what they say. Try and get a contact at Jim Walker and De Rosa. Give that a call, then give us an update.

I think it is very hard to be patient when you have handed over £4500 to a stranger, at least De Rosa could confirm they have it.