Etape 2008 training

Piggy

Got my place on Etape 2008. Any thoughts on training would be gratefully received. I do something between 80 and 100 miles a week and know I need to up that as well as add in some good long rides at the weekends. Real challenge for me is the hills - or rather lack of them around here. I live in Rutland - on the edge of the fens - not noted for their height. I can get up into the peak district reasonably easily so any good routes up there would be great. Also any early season sportives in UK that would help? General advice really....

Cheers M

richa

For sportives have a good look on here:
http://www.cyclosport.org/

Build up your mileage/training and make sure you get in some long rides at weekend.

I would book yourself on five/six sportives in the build up to the Etape, culminating in the Dragon Ride (15th June) and then the Circuit of the Cotswolds the followinmg week(22nd June).

Getting out and riding 125 miles on a Sunday can take a lot of motivation. Being booked on a sportive makes a big difference. Plus you get used to riding in groups, feedstations, etc.

Rich

PS My blog has a plethora info & facts - Some of it may be useful / intersting.

cabron

I'd second sportives as being great training, and good practice for pacing yourself, eating, riding in groups etc. This time last year I'd never ridden more than about 40 miles in one go, but 5 sportives, learning to eat properly whilst riding, throwing loads of cash at Science in Sport, and buying a second hand turbo trainer got me through the Etape this July. Oh, and practicing on hills, lots of them. Sounds silly, but after the Chiltern 100 sportive I felt I was ready for anything..

A lot of the hard work has now turned to lard, so I'm kick starting it again and plan to do the Marmotte in 2008 - the good news is I'm up to speed a LOT quicker than last year, so something obviously stuck.

andyp

Sound advice so far.

One thing I'd add - you don't necessarily have to train on hills to acquire the fitness needed to conquer them. If you can fit it in you should try and get out once or twice a week in the evenings (and you can wait until the clocks go forward for this) and, after a 15 min warm up, ride for 30-60 minutes at a pace that's just sustainable for this duration. Then warm down for 15 minutes.

You can add variations on this, i.e. 2 x 20 min sessions with 10 mins ieasy riding n between but the idea is to get your body trained for riding close to your anaerobic threshold for 1 hour or so, i.e. simulating the time it'd take to ride a col like the Tourmalet.

richa

Totally agree with Andy's point. Climbing is just sustained effort for a period of time. Most my training was on the flat, or on the steep but v.short hills of Surrey. This was then applied to 5 Pyrenean climbs. Doing the hilly (Chiltern 100) / mountainous (Dragon Ride) sportives does give you confidence.

Like Cabron, I will be following this training plan again this year. And then tackling the Marmotte.

andyp wrote:

riding close to your anaerobic threshold for 1 hour or so, i.e. simulating the time it'd take to ride a col like the Tourmalet.

However, I think that an hour for the Tourmalet is a little optimistic.

Col du Tourmalet ~ Ascent of 23,4 km at a 7,5% gradient. 2hrs+ is more likely.

A quick refule at the top, descend for 36km / 45 mins and straight onto:
Hautacam ~ Ascent of 15,2 km at a 7,2% gradient. Probably another 1-1.5hrs of climbing.

Yikes.

Finally, joining a cycling club is also great for training, motivation & information & enjoyment. It makes getting out of bed on a Sunday morning to go for a long ride much easier, you'll get used to riding in a group., learn of fellow clum members and it makes the ride more enjoyable.

terongi

You will also need to acclimatise yourself to the local conditions in July.

Put the oven on at gas mark 4. Put a woolly jumper on. Put your turbo trainer in front of the oven with the front wheel resting on a large pile of dictionaries. Open the oven door and pedal slowly for 2 hours on the hardest setting of the trainer.

You'll be fine.

Piggy

Thanks a lot. All really helpful. Had no idea there were so many sportives in the UK. Bit wary of the oven advice...

popette

terongi wrote:

You will also need to acclimatise yourself to the local conditions in July.

Put the oven on at gas mark 4. Put a woolly jumper on. Put your turbo trainer in front of the oven with the front wheel resting on a large pile of dictionaries. Open the oven door and pedal slowly for 2 hours on the hardest setting of the trainer.

You'll be fine.

I've planned our family holiday this year to be in Bourg D'Oisans (a bit more adventurous than our usual trip to Anglesey) so that we can do some hill training on Alpe D'Huez!! So excited about that. I've read on here many times that cycling in the mountains of Europe is difficult to replicate over here so we're going for a practice run on a climb we've always fancied.

I did the Etape Caledonia last year - it's 18th May this year and they're opening up for entries soon on www.etapecaledonia.co.uk. It's quite expensive but I thought it was great because of the closed roads and I'm definitely going to go back up this time around.

It would be great if C+ did a comprehensive feature on sportive training. There's a short plan in the winter training guide (Cycling Weekly) but it's only an 8 week plan. I'd love a huge article on what training to do starting from November onwards.

Good luck! I'm doing Etape as well so may see you there.

BeaconRuth

andyp wrote:

One thing I'd add - you don't necessarily have to train on hills to acquire the fitness needed to conquer them. If you can fit it in you should try and get out once or twice a week in the evenings (and you can wait until the clocks go forward for this) and, after a 15 min warm up, ride for 30-60 minutes at a pace that's just sustainable for this duration. Then warm down for 15 minutes.

You can add variations on this, i.e. 2 x 20 min sessions with 10 mins ieasy riding n between but the idea is to get your body trained for riding close to your anaerobic threshold for 1 hour or so, i.e. simulating the time it'd take to ride a col like the Tourmalet.

I fully agree with Andy - this fixation people have with training on hills for events like the Etape seems very bizarre. Surprisingly enough you'll struggle to find hills anything like the Alps in the UK, and if you did take the trouble to travel then the most you will get is a week or so of climbing practice, which is not going to be the foundation of your Etape fitness. You can build very very good fitness for climbs like the Tourmalet on ordinary roads (or your turbo) as Andy says - and setting out a good quality training programme on your local roads for several months in advance will be far more important in the grand scheme of things than riding one-off sportives or making a special trip to mountains.

The main benefit of going to the big mountains in advance is as psychological preparation - but if you know exactly what to expect, don't make the effort to go and find mountains if your sole motivation is improved fitness.

Ruth

cabron

I hardly think looking for hills to ride is bizarre. Sure you can't find a proper mountain in the south of England, but a 100 mile ride over terrain such as the Chilterns or Cotswolds is far more rewarding and therefore mentally beneficial than blasting along the flat at your threshold, or sitting on your turbo trainer for an hour, bored out of your brains. Not saying you shouldn't do that as well of course.

I guess it comes down to whether you enjoy climbing or not - I've found over the last year that I do, hence lots of climbing is good training for me, it keeps the interest level up.

Nick

popette

BeaconRuth wrote:

andyp wrote:

One thing I'd add - you don't necessarily have to train on hills to acquire the fitness needed to conquer them. If you can fit it in you should try and get out once or twice a week in the evenings (and you can wait until the clocks go forward for this) and, after a 15 min warm up, ride for 30-60 minutes at a pace that's just sustainable for this duration. Then warm down for 15 minutes.

You can add variations on this, i.e. 2 x 20 min sessions with 10 mins ieasy riding n between but the idea is to get your body trained for riding close to your anaerobic threshold for 1 hour or so, i.e. simulating the time it'd take to ride a col like the Tourmalet.

I fully agree with Andy - this fixation people have with training on hills for events like the Etape seems very bizarre. Surprisingly enough you'll struggle to find hills anything like the Alps in the UK, and if you did take the trouble to travel then the most you will get is a week or so of climbing practice, which is not going to be the foundation of your Etape fitness. You can build very very good fitness for climbs like the Tourmalet on ordinary roads (or your turbo) as Andy says - and setting out a good quality training programme on your local roads for several months in advance will be far more important in the grand scheme of things than riding one-off sportives or making a special trip to mountains.

The main benefit of going to the big mountains in advance is as psychological preparation - but if you know exactly what to expect, don't make the effort to go and find mountains if your sole motivation is improved fitness.

Ruth

Hi Ruth & Andy
It's great to get advice from you as you obviously have lots of experience .
I can fit the 2x20 sessions in now as I usually do a couple of night rides each week lasting for about an hour (and then a much longer ride on Sunday). Does that sound about right for this time of year?
I have absolutely no idea what to expect so I think the week in the Alpes will be good for me mentally. I'm particularly concerned about descending and hope to get some practice in while I'm over there. I keep reading stories of flying dutchmen and speeds of 60mph. Have you got any tips for safe descending? Safety is my first concern as I've got to make it back alive to my four children :shock:
Thanks again

wildmoustache

poppette, you're right, andy and ruth know their onions here. good advice above. I have done the last two etapes and a slew of gran fondos in italy and so also speak with some experience (christ, that sounds pompous).

in terms of logistics this is the most accessible etape for years. it should be possible to ride back to Pau after the etape (which is what i'm planning). But more to the point, it's also possible to fly out to Pau for a weekend to do the route a few weeks before the etape. Assuming that goes ok, it will give you a huge confidence boost and a check on where your fitness has got to. You'll also know that Tourmalet is tough but not impossible and you'll know the descent.

on descending, in all honesty most of it comes from experience. I used to be a poor descender, but have got better and better and now more than keep up with most on gran fondos, etapes etc. But there are also some tips:

1. obvious one but make sure your bike is sound and tyres are in good condition with no cuts.

2. get your tyres at the right pressure. remember that rims heat with braking causing the pressure to increase. i weigh 73kg and my bike about 7kg and for that event (in the dry) would ride at about 105psi rear, and 100 front. That sounds low to some, but it gives you more grip, and greatly reduces the chances of heat blowout ... in exchange for a tiny increase in rolling resistance. Less is often more with tyre pressure.

3. try and relax when descending. don't lock your arms out and don't constantly brake. this comes from experience in large part. breathe deeply, concentrate hard on the road ahead, and enjoy it!

4. Keep your feet at 3 and 9 o'clock ... except when cornering hard when you need to have the outside foot at 6 o'clock. this greatly helps stability. also keep your knees tucked into the frame of the bike.

5. braking ... don't constantly brake, it will make you nervous and will heat the rims like wildfire. it's dangerous. brake before each corner using both brakes but be aware not to brake too hard especially with rear so as to avoid skidding. important: keep your weight well back in the saddle when brakeing ... and when descending generally, it helps stability and allows you to use the front brake to full effect without the rear wheel lifting off the ground.

6. Try not to brake in corners. Hard not to do completely, but braking in corners makes the bike go straighter which ruins your line in the corner. when cornering on a hairpin look where you are going rather than down at the road ... "look for an exit" is what people say and it is true that this tends to guide you out of the corner. If it is dry, then you will be surpised at how far you can lean the bike over in a hairpin but it does take practice.

7. don't swerve around the road as you might cause a crash. ride predictably.

richa

Here is an interesting read on the 'art' of descending:

http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm

andyp

That's excellent advice on descending wildmoustache.

A couple of things I'd add;

- sit up when you begin to brake as this helps in slowing you down, i.e. the wind hitting your chest.

- when you have your outside foot at 6 o'clock on a bend try and push down on it. It's counter intuitive but it allows you to corner faster.

The golden rule is to relax though. If you are tense this transmits itself to the steering and makes the bike harder to control.

Ruth will now tell you not to listen to me - she once followed me on a descent to see how I did it only for me to get a hairpin completely wrong and have to straighten the bike up and slam the brakes on hard before we hit the rock face on the outside of the bend. :oops:

danseur

I normally don't like descending but knowing that there are not going to be any cars coming the other way makes the downhills much more enjoyable, and feel much safer!

popette

thought this might be of interest to etapists (if that is what we are)
http://www.cyclosport.org/article.aspx?id=471
just started learning french this afternoon. did a GCSE but forgotten most of it

Piggy

Thanks for all this - hadn't even thought about descending yet - just worrying about going up! Are people using Heart Rate as the best measure of how hard you're working? I've had an HRM for a while for running - considering getting a bike mounted one as I'm about to get new bike (delivery in about a fortnight) and am at the 'in for a penny, in for a pound' stage...

BeaconRuth

andyp wrote:

Ruth will now tell you not to listen to me - she once followed me on a descent to see how I did it only for me to get a hairpin completely wrong and have to straighten the bike up and slam the brakes on hard before we hit the rock face on the outside of the bend. :oops:

You're going to have to remind me where that was, Andy. I remember the incident but I can't even remember which trip it was, let alone which descent. No doubt you can tell me which trip, which descent and who came 3rd in the TdF the year they last went over that col.

Ruth

dcj

invest - that is the right word - in a virtual reality trainer with DVDs of mountains.

over the winter spend time riding up alpe d'huez, the ventoux etc two or three times a week.

The Tackx and Elite VR versions both offer power output, HR monitor etc.
They are expensive but offer several years worth of benefit for the cost of a single 10 day trip to the real thing.

also, even if you are rich or live in the alps, the real roads are mostly out of bounds until spring.

when you come to ride up the real thing, you will know exactly how hard you need to go from the start of the climb.

As you are planning to ride the etape, I would say this should be top of your training agenda.

Spending time on ordinary turbo trainers is a boring, miserable exercise and you cannot compare the two.

popette

I've got an imagic with Alpe D'huez on it - I really need to give it a permanent home in the bedroom because it's not being used at the moment as it's in the very packed garage. I'm not sure how to make sure the tension is correct though. At first, I had it set so hard that I was in granny all the time. I adjusted but when I tried Alpe D'huez for the first time, it wasn't all that difficult. Have you got any tips on getting it right?

DaveyL

popette wrote:

I've got an imagic with Alpe D'huez on it - I really need to give it a permanent home in the bedroom because it's not being used at the moment as it's in the very packed garage. I'm not sure how to make sure the tension is correct though. At first, I had it set so hard that I was in granny all the time. I adjusted but when I tried Alpe D'huez for the first time, it wasn't all that difficult. Have you got any tips on getting it right?

That sounds about right for Alpe d'Huez...

dcj

popette wrote:

I've got an imagic with Alpe D'huez on it - I adjusted but when I tried Alpe D'huez for the first time, it wasn't all that difficult. Have you got any tips on getting it right?

The realaxiom lets you input your weight - I presume the i-magic does as well.
Or check the closeness of the tyre on the roller corresponds with the instructions - I think it is supposed to stop rotating after about 8 seconds if the resistance is corrent.
I guess if this is not pressing hard enough it would not provide sufficient resistance.

Even so, with the realxiom, from experience I am still about 10 minutes faster for every hour than I would be on the real mountain.

However, the VR climb should not be any easier at all - the effort level is exactly the same.

I have just finished a VR session with the Monte Bondone disc - 48 minutes climbing @84% average of max heart rate.

You should definately be in a sweat and looking forward to reaching the mountaintop if everything is working correctly with the i-magic.

I hope you manage to solve it.

Hugh A

I enjoyed the Flamme Rouge article on descending Rich. Some good stuff in there and posted by the others I think.

There are usually other people around on the descents too so keep an eye out - I found on the etape it is rarely possible to descend at full speed for that reason - there is often someone right in your line on the corner in front of you going more slowly. In that case, I would generally go slower in, passing them on the inside of the bend and try to come out faster.

Also agree with Ruth about hills. It is good to ride them here but a very different experience and personally I felt that riding hard on the flat or turbo for a period was better training for the long climbs.

Also losing weight makes a tremendous difference - I made the mistake of explaining to my mate who was a strong rider on the flat what would happen if he were to lose the spare two stone he was carrying around, so he did, and now kills us all on the hills as well!

richa

Hugh A wrote:

There are usually other people around on the descents too so keep an eye out - I found on the etape it is rarely possible to descend at full speed for that reason - there is often someone right in your line on the corner in front of you going more slowly. In that case, I would generally go slower in, passing them on the inside of the bend and try to come out faster.

Agreed. Last year the early decents were busy. But, by the time we got to the Port du Bales / Peyresourde it had thinned right out and, with the closed roads, was fantastic.

That said, next year's Etape has only 1,615m descending (1 descent) versus approx 3,750m (5 descents) last year.