Heart rate

richardjallen

Last week I went on a ride with some people. One guy said a high heart rate for him was around 160. At the time my own heart rate was reading 166 and I said how I don't feel like I'm working until I get to 175+ and the week before I noted a heart rate of 192.

I'm 32 at the end of next month and I guess these guys were in their late 30's early 40's so that accounts for some difference in our heart rates. However if the guy I was talking to counts 160 as high for him then as we were riding he must have had a heart rate significantly lower because we were not pushing it at all. So I had a higher heart rate but was going the same speed. My point is although I have a higher max heart rate wouldn't it be better if my rate did not go so high for the amount of work I'm doing.

How can I lower my heart rate to be more efficient?

phil s

Everyone's heart rate is different, the old 220-age formula is bollacks so ignore that. What you need to do is work out your max and then figure out what % of max you are doing at the same speed relative to your compadres.

Klassiker

I agree with Phil. Find out what your own training zones are, and judge your level of effort on that basis. Direct comparisons with other people don't tell you much, because these zones are very individual things. Even the %xMHR is just an approximation.

You are right in thinking it would be better if you could ride the same speed, but with a lower heart rate. This is the effect of training. Successful training allows you to put out more power for the same level of effort, or the same power at lower effort.

If you can ride with this guy next year and have a pulse rate similar to his you will know that you have got fitter, because he will be trying a lot harder than you will at the same speed.

richardjallen

Klassiker wrote:

You are right in thinking it would be better if you could ride the same speed, but with a lower heart rate.

This is what I was thinking. Just seems better. As if I would have more capacity. I don't know what my hrMax is. I thought 185 was a good place to start but as I said two weeks ago I noticed 192 so I suspect it must be close to 200.

richardjallen

I think PJH's 'Tips On Riding Slowly' is covering what I want to know so I'm reading that.

Mike Willcox1

The main purpose of measuring your heart rate while you are riding your bike is to establish a level of effort commensurate with what type of training you are trying to do. Otherwise it is of academic interest.

If you are in a group then it is of academic interest. In other words knowing what it is will not make you make ride faster or slower. You won't want to be left behind and you won't want to ride off the front.

In other words don't worry about it.

SteveR_100Milers

and your "relative" HR is no indication of your comparative performance, i.e. a higher or lower MHR is no indicator of actual or potential fitness.

Alex_Simmons/RST

HR is simply that, the rate at which the heart pumps but it doesn't tell you the amount of blood (stroke volume) that is pumped each beat. Everyone has a different stroke volume as well. Those with higher HR may just have smaller hearts (or may not).

HR response will also vary according to lots of things: how hard you are riding, fatigue levels, fitness, temperature, when you last ate, caffeine or other drug intake, stress levels, etc etc.

If using HR as a guide, then only be concerned with your own relative levels and how that relates to your own levels of perceived exertion.

redddraggon

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

HR response will also vary according to lots of things: how hard you are riding, fatigue levels, fitness, temperature, when you last ate, caffeine or other drug intake, stress levels, etc etc.

Does a higher (environmental) temperature mean that you can't reach a higher HR?

I'm just wondering because on the trainer/rollers I struggle to keep my HR up, but when I'm riding "for real" I can maintain a higher HR for longer. ie I struggle to hit 150bpm indoors, but when riding outside I can easily maintain way over that, e.g. I average 160+ on multiple hour rides and I can hit the 190s without that much suffering, so I guess my maxHR is over 200.

a_n_t

holy thread digging batman! :shock:

redddraggon

Still a proper question though

Bronzie

redddraggon wrote:

Does a higher (environmental) temperature mean that you can't reach a higher HR?

Normally has the opposite effect - ie heart beats faster for same power output:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiovascular_drift

What you are probably experiencing is that for many people, perceived exertion is higher on indoor trainer (it feels harder than it really is).

GiantMike

When I race cyclocross I average 175bpm for an hour, so my Lactic Threshold is around 175 and I've started to use that as a guide of how hard I'm working, i.e. I won't let my HR stay above 180 for too long because it's not going to help me in the long run, but if it's down in the 160s I know I can dig in more.

When I train on the road, as hard as I can, I average around 165, and can't get to my race avarage.

On a turbo trainer, I average around 160 flat out.

There's obviously a big difference between HR and percieved effort which is what makes a HRM really useful because it objectively measures one's input rather than a subjective perceived input.

I record Ave HR vs Ave Speed as a measure of improvement in fitness: Start of year 158 bpm = 19.5 mph over 45 mins. Now 158 bpm = 20.7 over 57 mins. Same HR, faster average speed, and presumably the same speed for a lower ave HR.

Alex_Simmons/RST

GiantMike wrote:

There's obviously a big difference between HR and percieved effort which is what makes a HRM really useful because it objectively measures one's input rather than a subjective perceived input.

Actually HR is a response based indicator of intensity (as is PE). Power, however, is a direct "input" based indicator.

GiantMike

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

GiantMike wrote:

There's obviously a big difference between HR and percieved effort which is what makes a HRM really useful because it objectively measures one's input rather than a subjective perceived input.

Actually HR is a response based indicator of intensity (as is PE). Power, however, is a direct "input" based indicator.

I agree with your point, but I think you misunderstood mine. If I tried to ride at a set PE my input would vary according to the type of exercise I was doing. However, if I use my HR as a guide, it tells me what I'm actually doing in terms of input. I agree that HR is a response to power output, but allowing for a degree of lag there is a fairly reliable correlation between the 2.

Bronzie

GiantMike wrote:

I agree with your point, but I think you misunderstood mine. If I tried to ride at a set PE my input would vary according to the type of exercise I was doing. However, if I use my HR as a guide, it tells me what I'm actually doing in terms of input. I agree that HR is a response to power output, but allowing for a degree of lag there is a fairly reliable correlation between the 2.

Could the higher HR you experience during a CX race be partly due to the proportion of running you do in the race (as that is likely to involve more muscle mass than just cycling hence higher O2 requirement) plus a bit of adrenaline as well?

Edwin

I can get to 96% of my max HR on ther turbo, maybe you're just not trying hard enough ?
I've not logged any HR data in a race yet though, I'm a recent convert to power so I mainly use that during a session instead. As long as my power goes up I'm not hugely bothered about my HR rate.

Pross

The key factor for HR in relation to fitness as I understand it is how quickly it returns to its resting level after exercise. Other than that the only way of comparing relative fitness is as others have said by calculating what percentage of your maximum you are using when riding at the same speed.

GiantMike

^^

Agreed, but I use average HR and average speed over a circular course (removing headwind effects) and over an hour. I also use kCals used per hour to convert to average Watts.

I think my inability to repeat my race HR in non-race scenarios is due to a lack of impetus to push myself to the limit. In a race is seems natural to work really hard and there's no thought of backing off. On the road, I always back off, no matter how much I kid myself I'm not.

I guess it's like being chased by a bear. I'd run a lot faster than if I went out for a hard run because so much more depends on it.

dynastarg9

If you're interested, I'm 35 and ride a couple of times a week (in Swinley and on the wind trainer).

My HR for riding in the forest is 136bpm (avg) and 159bpm (max)
on the windtrainer it's 137 avg and 149 max.

So me personally, I work harder outdoors than indoors.

As everyone says though, we're all different. This is just for a comparison though.

rokkala

Just a random question on the topic of heart rate.

Taking caffeine results in a higher heart rate than your would normally have. So if you did a max HR test after say, 10 cups of coffee during the day, would your max HR be artificially high? Or would it still hit the same ceiling regardless?

robrauy

Does a higher (environmental) temperature mean that you can't reach a higher HR?

I'm just wondering because on the trainer/rollers I struggle to keep my HR up, but when I'm riding "for real" I can maintain a higher HR for longer. ie I struggle to hit 150bpm indoors, but when riding outside I can easily maintain way over that, e.g. I average 160+ on multiple hour rides and I can hit the 190s without that much suffering, so I guess my maxHR is over 200.

I was experiencing the same on my rollers - I struggled to get close to my HR on fast club runs. I've recently tried the famous sufferfest downward spiral, and found it relatively easy to match my road HR, so I guess it does come down to perception..

ajb72

So if the old method of 220 bpm - age is not too accurate - what is the best method for measuring your max HR?

My max using the 220-age is 183 bpm, the most I have registered ona ride in the last 4 months is 178 bpm, but the average over 2-3 hour rides tends to be aroun 150-155 bpm.

I have a turbo at home and a garmin with HR monitor Iif anyone knows a way to establish a more scientific max HR?

shockedsoshocked

Rokkala wrote:

Just a random question on the topic of heart rate.

Taking caffeine results in a higher heart rate than your would normally have. So if you did a max HR test after say, 10 cups of coffee during the day, would your max HR be artificially high? Or would it still hit the same ceiling regardless?

I don't know about a higher ceiling, but you'd basically have meaningless results, as your resting HR would be elevated anyway.

Bronzie

ajb72 wrote:

I have a turbo at home and a garmin with HR monitor Iif anyone knows a way to establish a more scientific max HR?

http://www.timetrialtraining.co.uk/S6Ma ... eTests.htm

Keep going until you see stars............then note the reading on your HRM