What is going on in this country?

Jonah2940

Two examples this week of what this country is becoming: An ex soldier is jailed for p1ssing on a woman dying in the street and a woman kills herself and her disabled daughter due to being constantly tormented by chav scum.
It's about time we reclaimed this country from these cowardly morons. Any ideas how?

andyp

Soapbox is that way --->

Jonah2940

Sorry, meant it to be in there, must have clicked the wrong one. :oops:

MattBlackBigBoysBMX

Kill all the bad people.
Crossbows are good; they make little noise and leave far less evidence than firearms.

blackhands

MattBlackBigBoysBMX wrote:

Kill all the bad people.
Crossbows are good; they make little noise and leave far less evidence than firearms.

idiot

redddraggon

MattBlackBigBoysBMX wrote:

Crossbows are good; they make little noise and leave far less evidence than firearms.

I'm not forensics expert but I reckon that the crossbow bolt sticking out of the body would give more evidence than a bullet.

Garry71

redddraggon wrote:

MattBlackBigBoysBMX wrote:

Crossbows are good; they make little noise and leave far less evidence than firearms.

I'm not forensics expert but I reckon that the crossbow bolt sticking out of the body would give more evidence than a bullet.

He probably meant the firing of a bullet leaving residues on the shooter's hands and clothing, etc.

Anyway, I don't understand how we have come to the point where decent people seem to be in the minority in some areas. I bet the c*nt who pissed on that woman will be segregated for his own safety in prison.
A lot of todays social ills could be cleared up with better laws and policing, but the politicians don't want to do it for some reason. Call me mad if you want, but I've thought for a number of years there is some sort of high level plot to deliberately make society crap to live in. I can't think of a reason why, though.

Garry

MattBlackBigBoysBMX

blackhands wrote:

MattBlackBigBoysBMX wrote:

Kill all the bad people.
Crossbows are good; they make little noise and leave far less evidence than firearms.

idiot

You are calling me an idiot?
At least I am aware of capital letters and full stops. :idea:

Obviously the post was not meant to be taken too seriously, but my underlying sentiment remains: punishments are not harsh enough.

richardjallen

Garry71 wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

MattBlackBigBoysBMX wrote:

Crossbows are good; they make little noise and leave far less evidence than firearms.

A lot of todays social ills could be cleared up with better laws and policing, but the politicians don't want to do it for some reason. Call me mad if you want, but I've thought for a number of years there is some sort of high level plot to deliberately make society crap to live in. I can't think of a reason why, though.

Garry

The is a lot of money to be made from crime. Security companies, locks, CCTV, burglar alarms.

Then there's 'insurance'. Pay us money every month for a policy and we will avoid paying out by charging you an excess fee that makes it worthless to claim for less than the excess. If you do claim we will expect you over-estimated the claim and pay out less than you need minus the excess. Then we will charge it all back again when we increase your premiums.

And if someone breaks into your house and nicks your TV are you going to stop watching TV? No you will more likely go and buy a new one.

So who cares if someone nicks your telly or bike? The thief doesn't, the shops don't, the insurance doesn't the Police don't seem to. The only person losing out is you, everyone else is actually benefiting.

We are kept in a state of fear by policians who do nothing because its easier to maintain the current problems than solve them. The shadow parties know the other party wont fix anything, they know people will get fed up eventually and they can dangle the carrot in front of us and we will vote them in again.

And the 'War on Terror' Its pure 1984, a plot the Nazi's would be proud of.


Edit - What a rant :oops:

Some people suggest its banks charging interest that underlie most of the worlds problems.

vitesse169

Believe me, the Police do care. However, try doing what you do with left hand tied to right wrist behind back at full speed. I know, I am one. 20yrs ago a member of my shift was assaulted - the offender charged with assault on Police. He went down the road for 6wks. I haven't seen this happen in the last 10yrs. Burglary - max sentence is 14yrs. I've NEVER seen this meted out. Whilst the offender has nothing to fear from the administering of justice he will carry on. Please don't use this as a Police bashing thread, but about a third of total crime is detected. This is historic - very historic.This has been the case since crime recording began. No ammount of incentives/targets or other ideas will move detections more than a few %. In my & many colleagues view a punishment must be harsh to act as a deterrent. If there is a severe penalty to be paid - it will deter...

spen666

vitesse169 wrote:

Believe me, the Police do care. However, try doing what you do with left hand tied to right wrist behind back at full speed. I know, I am one. 20yrs ago a member of my shift was assaulted - the offender charged with assault on Police. He went down the road for 6wks. I haven't seen this happen in the last 10yrs. Burglary - max sentence is 14yrs. I've NEVER seen this meted out. Whilst the offender has nothing to fear from the administering of justice he will carry on. Please don't use this as a Police bashing thread, but about a third of total crime is detected. This is historic - very historic.This has been the case since crime recording began. No ammount of incentives/targets or other ideas will move detections more than a few %. In my & many colleagues view a punishment must be harsh to act as a deterrent. If there is a severe penalty to be paid - it will deter...

more like about 1/33rd of total crime is detected

richardjallen

vitesse169 wrote:

Believe me, the Police do care. However, try doing what you do with left hand tied to right wrist behind back at full speed. I know, I am one. 20yrs ago a member of my shift was assaulted - the offender charged with assault on Police. He went down the road for 6wks. I haven't seen this happen in the last 10yrs. Burglary - max sentence is 14yrs. I've NEVER seen this meted out. Whilst the offender has nothing to fear from the administering of justice he will carry on. Please don't use this as a Police bashing thread, but about a third of total crime is detected. This is historic - very historic.This has been the case since crime recording began. No ammount of incentives/targets or other ideas will move detections more than a few %. In my & many colleagues view a punishment must be harsh to act as a deterrent. If there is a severe penalty to be paid - it will deter...

Your right, got a bit carried away there. I feel strongly about this. There is something at work that is on side of crims. I've also recognised that while there is no deterrent is basically a free-for-all and the criminal population breeds like an organism that has no predator. Its like the crims are at the top of the food chain.

richardjallen

richardjallen wrote:

vitesse169 wrote:

Believe me, the Police do care. However, try doing what you do with left hand tied to right wrist behind back at full speed. I know, I am one. 20yrs ago a member of my shift was assaulted - the offender charged with assault on Police. He went down the road for 6wks. I haven't seen this happen in the last 10yrs. Burglary - max sentence is 14yrs. I've NEVER seen this meted out. Whilst the offender has nothing to fear from the administering of justice he will carry on. Please don't use this as a Police bashing thread, but about a third of total crime is detected. This is historic - very historic.This has been the case since crime recording began. No ammount of incentives/targets or other ideas will move detections more than a few %. In my & many colleagues view a punishment must be harsh to act as a deterrent. If there is a severe penalty to be paid - it will deter...

Your right, got a bit carried away there. I feel strongly about this. There is something at work that is on side of crims. I've also recognised that while there is no deterrent is basically a free-for-all and the criminal population breeds like an organism that has no predator. Its like the crims are at the top of the food chain.

Edit. In the few times I have talked to a solicitor it's always the other party that has all the rights no matter which side you are on. Rented accommodation for instance. If you rent and the landlord takes your deposit to cover the last months rent then that's OK because the the law protects their rights, see? But if you enquire about renting out your property then you better be careful because tenants have basically all the rights to live in your property rent free if they need to, see?

top_bhoy

Having rented, deposits are intended to cover the cost of missing/damaged property. The cost of the last months rent is covered by having to pay 1 month in advance at the start of the rental lease.Is what you are trying to say is that if disruptive tenants decide to outstay their lease terms, you need to get a court order to remove them - meanwhile you will receive no rental income!!! I believe that by signing short term leases, tenants have less rights then longer term ones hence the majority of leases are short term and renewable on a 6 or12 month basis.

richardjallen

I'm sure the are all sorts of legal aspects to renting. My broader point though is that legal people seem to immediately point out how much more rights the other party has than yourself and how hard it is going to be for you settle your differences. But then isn't it in their interests to make it as hard as possible?

ContrelaMontre

Was it the transfer from C+ that led to the Daily Wail type rants over here?

Is the world really a much worse place than it was 50 years ago? 100 years? 500 years?

If anything I think richardjallen has hit the nail on the head comparing the fear culture with 1984. IMO this country is not as bad as the media would have you believe. The Daily Mail types just want to play on our fears.

Be more philosophical, always!

Jon G

Garry71 wrote:

A lot of todays social ills could be cleared up with better laws and policing, but the politicians don't want to do it for some reason. Call me mad if you want, but I've thought for a number of years there is some sort of high level plot to deliberately make society crap to live in. I can't think of a reason why, though.

It's more of a low-level one. Part of the problem is the number of people who, while they would like to be protected from crimes which affect them, do not want a general improvement in law enforcement because they are themselves benefiting from some sort of crime or they don't want their errant offspring to get records, etc.

.. the habitual speeding motorist ...

... the hoildaymaker bringing back 500 cigarettes to sell to friends ...

... the petty expense or tax fiddler .....

... people who soil bus and train seats by putting their feet up on them ...

.... litter droppers .....

... the parent fiddling insurance by stating they are the main driver of the car actually used only by their 18 year old ...

... the parent who knows that their 16 year old drinks in pubs and would rather they did not have to confront the child over it or have them brought home by the police ...

.... the light-jumping cyclist .............................

All these people will moan about there being too much crime but politicians know, in reality, would strongly resent any general increse in law enforcement if it caught them. We have already clearly seen this in the case of speed offenders.

Jon

ContrelaMontre

The above crimes are perpertrated [partly at least] by the middle classes so they don't count - people don't get scared or angry about them for that reason.

I think that student who got fined for putting her feet on the seat of the train was a prime example - if it'd been a hooded working class male, rather than an eloquent middle class female, there would not have been the uproar against 'officiousness'. More likely, if people had heard about the former theyd've thought, "serves 'em right, scum!"

richardjallen

Jon G wrote:

Garry71 wrote:

All these people will moan about there being too much crime but politicians know, in reality, would strongly resent any general increse in law enforcement if it caught them. We have already clearly seen this in the case of speed offenders.

Jon

If these kind of trivial crimes were enforced more I'm sure a lot of people would find it annoying. I was in the town centre a few weeks ago riding in a pedestrianised area and a community support officer told me not to ride there or I would get a fine. I was a bit miffed by it and thought 'Why don't they catch some thieves instead of collecting taxes?' But there are other things going on that we are really concerned about like gangs of minors murdering adults.

Jon G

richardjallen wrote:

If these kind of trivial crimes were enforced more I'm sure a lot of people would find it annoying. I was in the town centre a few weeks ago riding in a pedestrianised area and a community support officer told me not to ride there or I would get a fine. I was a bit miffed by it and thought 'Why don't they catch some thieves instead of collecting taxes?' But there are other things going on that we are really concerned about like gangs of minors murdering adults.

They did not go direct from being little angels to being extremely aggressive. They statrted out with petty offences, become accustomed to getting away with those, and now expect to be able to do as they like and turn violent when, rather too late, society tries to control them.

P.S. Since when was a penalty for breaking a bylaw a tax?

Jon

passout

Too many of you lot believe what you read - the Daily Mail by the sound of it. Society isn't that bad (compared to the past) but you will always have the odd 'lune'. The laws here are just and the police good but we also live in free society which means you'll have to be tolerant or you'll be constantly fustrated by the actions of others. This freedom extents to the press who account for the difference between the percieved and actual state of society. Bear in imind the guy who pissed on that poor woman is now in prison - the system can work and the vast majority of people are decent (except gutter press journalists perhaps). No room for complacency of course.

carlstone

It's about time we reclaimed this country from these cowardly morons. Any ideas how?

Talk to our neighbours Reward kids who achieve and help those who don't follow a path that suits their abilities Smile at people and pass the time of day Start installing discipline and bring back corporal punishment in schools Make punishments fit the crime Try and make kids realise from an early age that aspiring to be the next 2 pack snoopy dog and M or Wayne Rooney is good but they need to be able to read and write first. Give the victims of crime some say in the punishments awarded to their attackers.

ut_och_cykla

Greg Lake had a good christmas song out once with the line 'the Christmas we get we deserve'.
I firmly believe the kids/youths we have got we deserve.We didn't dare say anything to the liitle uns' pulling wings off flies and blowing up frogs with cycle pumps, the schools can't touch them, plod is not available when you need him.
Individualism and choice - so popular now - is not a subtext for disregarding other peoples feelings and choosing to do harm. Everyone is screaming about their rights - what about our obligations...?
Rant rant rant.....

bryanm

passout wrote:

Too many of you lot believe what you read - the Daily Mail by the sound of it. Society isn't that bad (compared to the past) but you will always have the odd 'lune'. The laws here are just and the police good but we also live in free society which means you'll have to be tolerant or you'll be constantly fustrated by the actions of others. This freedom extents to the press who account for the difference between the percieved and actual state of society. Bear in imind the guy who pissed on that poor woman is now in prison - the system can work and the vast majority of people are decent (except gutter press journalists perhaps). No room for complacency of course.

If you'd said that 3-4 years ago I would have agreed with you. I think things have changed for the worse very quickly since then.

drewfromrisca

For all of you who say society isn't that bad then I'm sorry I totally disagree. I've been in Police for 8years and in the last six its gone unbelievable. So bad that I know of officers who want out as its just not safe anymore and support is just not there for you. Plus it can be a thankless, pointless task! I deal with scum everyday non-stop as do the majority of my colleagues and its certainly not getting any better or less. It's getting extreme, very extreme. We've all seen the papers/watched news etc etc and it is happening, it's not made up or fabricated. If anything its not fully disclosed what really goes on. Take this years Notting Hill carnival for example. It was a 'success' but I'll never forget the screaming scared looks on the kids faces as rival gangs started fighting and the little kids and parents were trying to run away. Also wont forget the bottles that were being thrown at our heads!!! If people think that society isn't that bad then you need to wake up and get in the real world...quickly.

spen666

drewfromrisca wrote:

For all of you who say society isn't that bad then I'm sorry I totally disagree. I've been in Police for 8years and in the last six its gone unbelievable. So bad that I know of officers who want out as its just not safe anymore and support is just not there for you. Plus it can be a thankless, pointless task! I deal with scum everyday non-stop as do the majority of my colleagues and its certainly not getting any better or less. It's getting extreme, very extreme. We've all seen the papers/watched news etc etc and it is happening, it's not made up or fabricated. If anything its not fully disclosed what really goes on. Take this years Notting Hill carnival for example. It was a 'success' but I'll never forget the screaming scared looks on the kids faces as rival gangs started fighting and the little kids and parents were trying to run away. Also wont forget the bottles that were being thrown at our heads!!! If people think that society isn't that bad then you need to wake up and get in the real world...quickly.

There in a sentence is part of the problem

If those with a duty to uphold the peace and act fairly are regarding the public as scum is it any wonder they are treated back with sso little respect. Sorry to say this- but you reap what you sow. Regard people as scum and you will get little back from them except their behaving like "scum"

Take say a peaceful commute to work and look at the scared look on adults faces, never mind that of kids as police randomly shoot innocent commuters because of course they regard him wrongly as scum in the form of a suicide bomber

ContrelaMontre

drewfromrisca wrote:

I deal with scum everyday non-stop as do the majority of my colleagues and its certainly not getting any better or less.

Whilst I agree with Spen's point, I'd also like to point out that perhaps as a police officer you have a slightly jaundiced view. Your job by its nature means you will always encounter criminals or 'scum' to use your word.

Or are you saying that criminals of bygone ears were gentlemen and not 'scum'?

Perhaps we need to start a campaign to bring back nice civilised criminals to make the PC's job more bearable.

spen666

ContrelaMontre wrote:

drewfromrisca wrote:

I deal with scum everyday non-stop as do the majority of my colleagues and its certainly not getting any better or less.

Whilst I agree with Spen's point, I'd also like to point out that perhaps as a police officer you have a slightly jaundiced view. Your job by its nature means you will always encounter criminals or 'scum' to use your word.

Or are you saying that criminals of bygone ears were gentlemen and not 'scum'?

Perhaps we need to start a campaign to bring back nice civilised criminals to make the PC's job more bearable.

For the avoidance of any doubt- I am not saying any problems are all the cause of the police or their attitude

morrisje

I think scum is a fair description for people who input nothing into society, don't care about right or wrong or how their actions affect others. I'm lucky and rarely come in contact with them as I live in a reasonable area, don't go out much at weekends late at night and work in a large company in London.
But I know that the scum does exist and occasionally our paths cross, usually leaving me slightly shocked. If I was a policeman and dealing with those people all the time I would have a very jaundiced or maybe realistic view of society and its unpleasant element.

Parkey

I attribute a lot of what is currently going on to the way we are being governed.

Most people are well aware of the political left-right spectrum, but there's a second scale, the liberal-authoritarian scale. The three main political parties are fairly close in terms of left-right, but Labour swings a long way into authoritarian territory. They believe in "big government", which is why they believe in trying to optimise performance by micromanaging every aspect of the country such as the police, education, healthcare etc using top-down centrally controlled initiatives, bureaucracy and targets. I don't like this at all because it takes responsibility away from people. Trained professionals like police officers, teachers, doctors, nurses, spend their time meeting targets and filling out paperwork instead of doing their job as best they can, exercising their own judgement and working in the way they have been trained to do, according to circumstances.

This is why I get annoyed when the average Daily Mail reader whinges on and on dismissing liberalism as "wishy washy PC nonsense". To me it's not, it's about letting people have their own responsibility.

ContrelaMontre

spen666 wrote:

ContrelaMontre wrote:

drewfromrisca wrote:

I deal with scum everyday non-stop as do the majority of my colleagues and its certainly not getting any better or less.

Whilst I agree with Spen's point, I'd also like to point out that perhaps as a police officer you have a slightly jaundiced view. Your job by its nature means you will always encounter criminals or 'scum' to use your word.

Or are you saying that criminals of bygone ears were gentlemen and not 'scum'?

Perhaps we need to start a campaign to bring back nice civilised criminals to make the PC's job more bearable.

For the avoidance of any doubt- I am not saying any problems are all the cause of the police or their attitude

I'll second that - I didn't think anything I said suggested that and I don't think what you wrote indicated such. I was just saying that someone's job colours their view of society. It's like the tax enforcer who thinks everyone is on the swindle because his job means he comes across tax evaders every single day.

Also, I'd like to make clear that I know perfectly well that there are undesirables living in this country who do terrible things, my point is that this is not a new development. Since time immemorial there have been people bemoaning the decline society's morals.