How do I improve my 10 mile TT.

onabike

hi,

im a 35yr old intermediate recreational cyclist wanting to improve my fitness for 10-mile time trials. I tried a handful this year and my best time was 26.50.

I recently bought a basic turbo trainer due to the poor summer, and I occasionally use a heart rate monitor.

Im basically wondering how to train over the winter to improve my times for next year. I am familiar with the term interval training and would like to add a couple of mid-week indoor sessions to boost my vo2 max, but i'm not sure where to start. I hear 5x 5 mis mentioned, or 2x20 mins. plus, shorter more intense intervals for anerobic training. Any thoughts?

I cycle 3-4 times per week, usually steady rides averaging 17mph. When the weather allows I do more hilly/faster tempo rides to add a little pop to my legs. I also do some quite intense mountain biking.

chrisw12

:idea: Buy a power meter

How long before it gets mentioned? :roll:

onabike

I want to avoid buying a powermeter as yet.

I'm just wanting to introduce some higher intensity work-outs, Indoor or Outdoor, to boost my vo2 max. I guess I could just ride harder and faster, but would like to be more systematic and structured.

Over Winter I can commit to two indoor session per week, plus two on the road. So any basic advice on how to use these to improve my 10 mile TT would be great e.g. number and length of intervals cycling at threshold e.t.c.

Matchstick Man

To the OP - from where you are at the minute you can make massive gains in fitness by training smartly using a HR and a turbo midweek and getting in some good mileage at the weekend.
Don't believe that you have to have a power meter to go quick - they are good but I know of two club mates that have self coached themselves to 20min '10' times by HR training alone.
ALthough much ridiculed, Joe Friel's Training Bible is a great starting point for someone in your position.
Try to bring structure to your training, have overload and recovery weeks but you will find that doing some proper training with a HR, rear wheel sensor computer and a turbo will take you further than you think.
Get a rear wheel computer, set up your turbo and time how long it takes for the rear wheel to roll down from 25mph. Do this a few times to get an average figure. ALso note your tyre pressure. You now have a perfect test rig where if you use the same bike, tyre, tyre pressure you have eliminated a LOT of variables.
Get warmed up and then do a 10 mile TT as you would on the road.
Note your time and average HR
You now have a benchmark to test against.
Look up some training plans that will seek to improve your VO2 max (Google is good here) and re-test yourself every 4-6 weeks.
Hope this helps.

BeaconRuth

onabike wrote:

I'm just wanting to introduce some higher intensity work-outs, Indoor or Outdoor, to boost my vo2 max. I guess I could just ride harder and faster, but would like to be more systematic and structured.

I'd suggest you shouldn't place quite so much emphasis on raising your VO2max - that's probably not the only or (arguably) the most important thing you need to concentrate on to improve from where you are now. (In any case, painful VO2max intervals are better left until much close to the events next season.) There's also the % of your VO2max you can sustain for approx 25 mins which is critical for a 10 mile TT - and this will improve with better lower-intensity aerobic fitness. Look up what Friel calls "muscular endurance" - you can train to improve it with a HRM on the turbo or on the road. When you've worked on that for a while you can raise the intensity and start on the intervals and they'll be all the more effective because your basic fitness is better.

Ruth

andrewgturnbull

HI there.

For 10s, what works for me is sets of 6 x 3 minute intervals done at a pace wherby you couldn't possibly do a 7th interval.

Cheers, Andy

ut_och_cykla

my take would be
Do a TT or equivalent with pulse meter (preferably several times over a few weeks) and using speed/time /pulse data break down your TT into intervals like andrewturnbull suggests - shorter & harder than teh TT information suggests you ride, with work periods longer than the rest periods - eg 5:2 Repeat until the work = typical TT time. With warm up & down this will take no more than an hour. Other session could consist of 2 x 20 blocks of sustained peddaling close to or at TT pace. Outdoors - ride to enjoy - chuck in the odd hill.
Make the increase in intervall training progressive and don't do too much too soon or you'll hate the turbo by Christmas! Perhaps work back 3 months from your first serious TT next year for a start date for serious interval traing? Until that take things at maintenance level. Perhasp do more MTB to rest from the road?
remember to include some rest from the bike MTBing will tend to be interval like training I suspect and your body can only take so much!

BlackHelmet

It sounds like no one advocates intervals all year round? And why work only at maintenance levels?

As a runner, I do intervals all year round. During the Winter months the emphasis is on speed/strength/endurance (long intervals, short recoveries, hills) - so you're not working at too intense a level. During the Spring the emphasis will be on speed with shorter more intense efforts and longer recoveries.

In an typical 10-day period I'd look to do a tempo session, stamina session and interval session.

I don't do any such thing on the bike ( :oops: ), but would be interested to know if you more experienced cyclists think the principles are the same for cycling? Aren't they both speed/endurance based sports?

SteveR_100Milers

BlackHelmet wrote:

It sounds like no one advocates intervals all year round? And why work only at maintenance levels?

As a runner, I do intervals all year round. During the Winter months the emphasis is on speed/strength/endurance (long intervals, short recoveries, hills) - so you're not working at too intense a level. During the Spring the emphasis will be on speed with shorter more intense efforts and longer recoveries.
In an typical 10-day period I'd look to do a tempo session, stamina session and interval session.

I don't do any such thing on the bike ( :oops: ), but would be interested to know if you more experienced cyclists think the principles are the same for cycling? Aren't they both speed/endurance based sports?

This is what most cyclists do as well. Also, I think your training programme should reflect whether you are a seasoned racer or still developing - if the latter as is impression given in the OP then a good solid base fitness is required if the speed work is to have any lasting benefit.

onabike

Great info, thanks. From reading I have a vague week and year plan outlined below. Appreciate constructive criticism. Or even just criticism. As I said I'm aiming to improve 10 mile TTs, but also to cycle more smartly to avoid injuries, which I've had loads of.

Starting November:

Sunday: 1 long sunday ride at slow/steady pace > 15-18mph on the flat. Avoid too many hills early season. Add hills or increase tempo slightly Feb onwards.

Monday & Wednesday p.m: indoor turbo sessions of upto 1 hour. Dec-Jan will be "endurance" rides eg 80-85% max HR, but will become interval training Febuary onwards.
> one session of cruise intervals - 4x5 mins just below lactate threshold, perhaps buidling to 2x20 mins.
> one session of shorter, more intense intervals.eg 5x1mins.

Saturday: 1 hour steady ride. A bit hazy what to do here...maybe some mountain biking or "muscular endurance" ride.

Broken down into blocks of 4 weeks, recovering on the 4th week.

Maybe it's the "cruise intervals" around lactate threshold I've really been lacking. When I tried 10 mile TTs I found myself blowing after 6 miles, hanging on for the last four miles.

Also, I get odd "ectopic" heart beats ( long story) which basically means I can't always trust my HR monitor, so I need to rely on feel as much as anything. I guess a powermeter is worth a try but they're pricey.

Bronzie

I don't know how pushed you are timewise with work and family, but you would benefit from some "active recovery" rides between the hard intervals to help your legs muscles recover - can you fit in a 30 min to hour easy ride on Tuesday and Thursday?

Ric_Stern/RST

onabike wrote:

Great info, thanks. From reading I have a vague week and year plan outlined below. Appreciate constructive criticism. Or even just criticism. As I said I'm aiming to improve 10 mile TTs, but also to cycle more smartly to avoid injuries, which I've had loads of.

Starting November:

Sunday: 1 long sunday ride at slow/steady pace > 15-18mph on the flat. Avoid too many hills early season. Add hills or increase tempo slightly Feb onwards.

Monday & Wednesday p.m: indoor turbo sessions of upto 1 hour. Dec-Jan will be "endurance" rides eg 80-85% max HR, but will become interval training Febuary onwards.
> one session of cruise intervals - 4x5 mins just below lactate threshold, perhaps buidling to 2x20 mins.
> one session of shorter, more intense intervals.eg 5x1mins.

Saturday: 1 hour steady ride. A bit hazy what to do here...maybe some mountain biking or "muscular endurance" ride.

Broken down into blocks of 4 weeks, recovering on the 4th week.

Maybe it's the "cruise intervals" around lactate threshold I've really been lacking. When I tried 10 mile TTs I found myself blowing after 6 miles, hanging on for the last four miles.

Also, I get odd "ectopic" heart beats ( long story) which basically means I can't always trust my HR monitor, so I need to rely on feel as much as anything. I guess a powermeter is worth a try but they're pricey.

Given that you only train 4 days/week for whatever reason, it's highly unlikely you'd ever need a rest week, let alone every 4th week.

Given your goals, plus the fact you only train 4 days/week, i'd be hammering 95% of all sessions.

Ric

andrewgturnbull

onabike wrote:

> one session of cruise intervals - 4x5 mins just below lactate threshold, perhaps buidling to 2x20 mins.

Hi there.

The shorter intervals need to be _above_ threshold. It doesn't matter which method you use to gauge your theshold - these should be done faster!

Cheers, Andy

nmcgann

onabike wrote:

> one session of cruise intervals - 4x5 mins just below lactate threshold,
...
.

These need to be more intense. You should just be able to finish the set without too much loss of power.

I do these vo2max intervals on a turbo with basic power measurement, although rear wheel speed/cadence would be just as good. They are pretty unpleasant when done properly :evil:

Neil

Jeff Jones

Personally, I've never found intense interval training to be of great benefit. I prefer to train at sub-threshold intensities - which can still be quite hard - and save the rest for racing. After 1-2 races, I'm up to speed but I can hold my form for quite a while because I'm not knackered from all the interval training.

I got this idea after reading an interview with Bjarne Riis on Cyclingnews about 10 years ago. He'd won the '96 Tour and was talking about how he was training for '97, where he admittedly crashed and burned. Note: At the time, I had no idea about his other 'medically-based' methods.

I cottoned onto this: "The art is to find the edge, where you slowly build up the form - instead of training above it, and thus breaking it down" which he used to explain why he didn't go hard in early season races, and why he trained using long intervals at below threshold to build up his aerobic engine.

After years of doing <5 min intervals with little or no improvement I decided to try this sort of training out. I did one session a week where I rode for two hours at about 75-80% of max, plus three recovery rides, two long rides and one moderately hard ride. The next season I was pleasantly surprised to find myself stronger without being tired in the races.

Since then, I've always followed variations of this scheme: saving any intense work for racing and doing any hill work below my threshold. I don't even bother with many long aerobic engine intervals any more, although I do find these accelerate my build up to full fitness.

The only year I deviated from this, I did more intense 2x20 min intervals, once per week. I found they knocked the edge off me and I didn't do so well in races. Admittedly, I wasn't doing any 10 mile time trials back then but I'm quite happy with my results in 10s this year, using my normal training mode.

It's all an individual thing, of course. I've just found I have to be quite careful with my training to avoid overcooking it.

onabike

Got it. I understand that these types of intervals..cruise intervals..need to be harder at around TT effort. I'll progressivley increase them as well eg 4-8 x 5mins, then back down to 4. This around Febuary.

Although I'll be doing just four quality sessions, I will also be riding to work daily = 2 x25 minute rides: dark, cold and wet But better than gridlock.