Helmets - yes or no?
Comments
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mailmannz wrote:Oh is that what that leading question was!
Fess up and admit its a theory NOT proven fact...or are you not able to determine the difference between theory and fact?
It is however a well documented theory, and well supported by evidence, unlike the theory that cycle helmets protect you in crashes.
As for your point that helmets don't prevent people from riding, that's clearly wrong. You made the decision to ride with a helmet because of the danger of head injury, but others won't necessarily make the same decision.0 -
Individual accidents do not necessarily reflect a general trend.This post contains traces of nuts.0
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They do show Mailmannz' poor appreciation for data vs anecdote though.0
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Individual accidents become statisticsdondare wrote:Individual accidents do not necessarily reflect a general trend.
Experts (ha !) correlate them, misinterpret them and they are presented to the public as "a general trend".
Seumas
The majority of people I talk to about cycling make the comment "oh, it's to dangerous" usually followed by "I don't want to have to carry all that stuff about" (usually meaning helmet, waterproofs, lights etc.
SeumasJust hold it there,don\'t move and don\'t drop it, I\'ll be back in a while.(If it\'s safe).0 -
BentMikey wrote:mailmannz wrote:Oh is that what that leading question was!
Fess up and admit its a theory NOT proven fact...or are you not able to determine the difference between theory and fact?
It is however a well documented theory, and well supported by evidence, unlike the theory that cycle helmets protect you in crashes.
The earth being flat was also a well documented "theory" at one point. Didnt change the fact it was about as water tight as your beloved little theory dear
You made the decision to ride with a helmet because of the danger of head injury, but others won't necessarily make the same decision.[/quote]As for your point that helmets don't prevent people from riding, that's clearly wrong.
This is your opionion...nothing more, nothing less. And again, you show nothing to back your "opinion" up that people do not ride because of they danger they equate helmet wearing to be.
Mailman0 -
I never said risk compensation was anything but a theory, but I did laugh when you tried to claim you weren't guilty of it, and I showed that you were.
I also have mentioned the drop in the numbers of cyclists due to the mandatory helmet law previously in this topic. That makes an excellent case that helmets help people to perceive cycling as a dangerous activity.
I think it's time you stopped arguing so dishonestly and stop trying to make out that I'm saying risk compensation turns people into crazed nutters. It doesn't. It simply lets people just like you ride with a helmet when otherwise you either wouldn't ride at all, or you'd ride more cautiously.0 -
They are in carsmailmannz wrote:
So where are all these people who see helmet wearing as being so dangerous that they wont cycle?
Mailman
(Bent Mikey said) I also have mentioned the drop in the numbers of cyclists due to the mandatory helmet law previously in this topic. That makes an excellent case that helmets help people to perceive cycling as a dangerous activity.
Not at all, car drivers help people to perceive cycling as a dangerous activity, people pack up cycling (documented fact) in countries where helmet use is compulsory because they find them to hot, uncomfortable and possibly because they get pee'd off being told what to do by some overweight oaf in a suit (read politician)
SeumasJust hold it there,don\'t move and don\'t drop it, I\'ll be back in a while.(If it\'s safe).0 -
mailmannz wrote:BentMikey wrote:They do show Mailmannz' poor appreciation for data vs anecdote though.
So where are all these people who see helmet wearing as being so dangerous that they wont cycle?
Mailman
Now that would seem to be a deliberate mis-representation of my stance. I'm not going to continue to debate with you if you carry on in this fashion.
To re-iterate, what I'm saying is that the general culture around helmets and the supposed importance of helmet wearing is makes people think that cycling is more dangerous than it actually is, and it's that perception that cycling is dangerous that stops some people from riding. It's not the only thing that causes cycling to be thought of as dangerous, or that helps to demotivate people from riding, but I believe it does have a significant effect.0 -
seumasl wrote:
They are in carsmailmannz wrote:
So where are all these people who see helmet wearing as being so dangerous that they wont cycle?
Mailman
Oh dear(Bent Mikey said) I also have mentioned the drop in the numbers of cyclists due to the mandatory helmet law previously in this topic. That makes an excellent case that helmets help people to perceive cycling as a dangerous activity.
Not at all, car drivers help people to perceive cycling as a dangerous activity, people pack up cycling (documented fact) in countries where helmet use is compulsory because they find them to hot, uncomfortable and possibly because they get pee'd off being told what to do by some overweight oaf in a suit (read politician)
Seumas
Its not as well documented as you may think as the studies completely exclude other areas (like changes in life style and other competing activities). Actually is there a study where someone being paid £2.50 an hour actually got out and asked people specifically why they stopped cycling?
Mailman0 -
To each his own, it would be a very sad world if we all had the same opinion, but that's only a Theory 8)0
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Re helmets (and I suppose a lot of other things) all I have to go on are the comments (propaganda) in the cycle press and releases from people like the CTC (with links to the BMJ and suchlike).
I think that as someone previously said, no conclusion will be reached on this thread as after all, all we can do is express our opinions and hopefully present what information we have gleaned in an accurate manner.
Been nice talking to you all
I'm off to the girls in lycra page OUCH (get's swipe round ear off better half)
SeumasJust hold it there,don\'t move and don\'t drop it, I\'ll be back in a while.(If it\'s safe).0 -
Sorry to bring this thread up AGAIN, but I actually have a new thought that hasn't been covered! Shock horror.
Was talking about helmets with my girlfriend last night (ooh er, pund intended). She's a statistician and told me that in most cases, stats are not focussed enough to provide much real value. In the case of helmets, there are so many variables, like where you ride, when you do it and how fast etc, meaning the little research there is to date is largely useless. Consider this - the average number of feet per person is slightly less than 2. This is because there are some people with one foot or no feet. Should we therefore assume anyone with 2 feet would look out of the ordinary? No, they would look very ordinary.0 -
Not looking (sings La la la la la very loudly with fingers in ears, or is that 1.82 ears ?) Just hold it there,don\'t move and don\'t drop it, I\'ll be back in a while.(If it\'s safe).0
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"TRL 549 - Driver's perceptions of cyclists" makes interesting reading. Drivers were shown several "stereotype pistures ranging from a child to a helmeted "road warrior".
The outcome was that the helmeted cyclists were "more capable and experienced" - hence there was no need to give extra room or reduce speed when overtaking when compared with a child or a helmetless female.
Partly gender perhaps, but the assumption is there that a helmet is giving a signal to some drivers that their responsibility of care is diminished.
There was also published work last year where a researcher again showed that drivers consistently give less room to cyclists wearing helmets. (8.5 cms)
In both cases it can be argued that wearing a helmet reduces the safety and increases the chances of a collision as you have less room to manoeuvre in case of potholes etc, and less leeway with an error on the part of the driver.
Apparently according to Dr Walker the safest thing was a wig and impersonating a female - a consistent 14 cms more room when overtaking!<b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
(Unattributed Trad.)0 -
I have only ever heard fellow riders saying they were glad they had helmets on, not the opposite. When they describe the damage to their bikes and helmets after spills, even if they were ko'd for a bit, you realise that nobody would argue against wearing helmets.
As far as 'passing gaps' are concerned, I find that if I take a decent position in the first place - just outside the typical drain / pothole rut - 'most' drivers give you plenty of space and you don't get worried. It's the Sunday morning old farts on their way to or from church that scare me / beep me the most !0 -
I'm all for exagerating the dangers, daily.0
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Oh no! The thread has been resurrected! :shock:0
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Yeah, I was bored so I cruised the site.
My wife says I don't need my helmet in bed, though. :idea:0 -
Hope that wasn't my fault! :shock:cntl wrote:Oh no! The thread has been resurrected! :shock:
I foolishly linked here from this thread as a warning to the unwary...Even if the voices aren't real, they have some very good ideas.0 -
Ok, then.
Helmet, good. No helmet, bad
***bait***
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Hi i have a helmet, however i find it looks far better sitting on top of the wardrobe that it does on my head. It does get warn on the odd day, but then it really is an odd day, know what i mean. Ademortademort
Chinarello, record and Mavic Cosmic Sl
Gazelle Vuelta , veloce
Giant Defy 4
Mirage Columbus SL
Batavus Ventura0 -
That's what ***bait*** actually means here. :roll:
yep but he's already been hooked and landed
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ademort wrote:Hi i have a helmet, however i find it looks far better sitting on top of the wardrobe that it does on my head. It does get warn on the odd day, but then it really is an odd day, know what i mean. Ademort
It's very important to look cool on your steed. I anguish over it a lot. :shock:0 -
Cunobelin wrote:There was also published work last year where a researcher again showed that drivers consistently give less room to cyclists wearing helmets. (8.5 cms)
In both cases it can be argued that wearing a helmet reduces the safety and increases the chances of a collision as you have less room to manoeuvre in case of potholes etc, and less leeway with an error on the part of the driver.
8.5cms is nothing, and exactley how much room do you think you need to bunnyhop a pothole?0 -
8.5cms is nothing, and exactley how much room do you think you need to bunnyhop a pothole?
WTF?0
