Lost my temper this morning...

spasypaddy

... was happily cycling to work, went down the inside of some traffic as it was properly blocked for about a mile. Got through the lights to find a learner in front of me (wasnt the reason for the hold up to be fair) but this learner had a completely empty road in front of him. I had to slow down to below 20mph to keep behind him (i dont go much above that but on that stretch of road i can do a solid 22-25mph).

I was getting so pissed off as he wouldnt allow room for me to pass and was hugging the kerb and driving incredibly slowly, i was slowly but surely losing my temper. Eventually the road widened and he didnt move right over to the kerb straight away, i shot straight up the side of him and said goodbye.

I arrived at my office about 4minutes later and whilst i was unlocking and getting myself inside he still hadn't passed. It took him a further 5 minutes after i arrived at the office for him to go past, i waited to see!

If this is how people are being taught to drive then no wonder there are so many accidents on the road, he was holding a cyclist who isnt particularly fast up and a line of traffic. I haven't passed my driving test (have done over 400 hours on the road though) but even i know that a learner shouldn't be doing below 20 in a 30 area during rush hour 2 days after schools went back!

dondare

Take a chill pill.

whome

Especially as a cyclist you should have more appreciation of people who can't/don't make the speed limit.

Also, you seem to be suggesting he should have moved out to the right to allow you to undertake, but surely you should have overtaken to his right if you were going faster?

spasypaddy

no what i meant was he wasnt giving me any room at all, he was hugging the kerb and then when i moved over to go round him moved out to stop me doing that. it was only when the road widened up could i go past.

There is slow and then there is dangerously slow. I understand had he been doing 25mph but it was not much more than 17mph.

nicklouse

spasypaddy wrote:

no what i meant was he wasnt giving me any room at all, he was hugging the kerb and then when i moved over to go round him moved out to stop me doing that. it was only when the road widened up could i go past.

There is slow and then there is dangerously slow. I understand had he been doing 25mph but it was not much more than 17mph.

but as a road user should you not pas the car on the right? as undertaking is illegal?

spasypaddy

yes as a road user i should of passed him on the outside but as i was slowly getting more and more annoyed with his lack of road sense and common courtesy i just wanted to get away from him as quickly as possible. So i used a bus stop (where the road widens to almost two lanes) to streak past him

whome

AIUI undertaking is not illegal - just a risky maneuver and obviously not one that you should normally expect people to make allowances for.

Terrier

We all learn to drive at one point in our lives, although I'm pretty sure half the people I see on the road has never had a lesson, let alone a driving licence!

secretsam

As the song goes: "Everybody's gotta learn sometime..."

Behaving nicely towards learners may make them be nicer to you once they've passed their test

you've probably created a WVM there...

A - W

It is not illegal to undertake if the person(s) are below the speed limit.

Just be very very careful.

Terrier

Haha Thanks for that little rendition SecretSam! :P

Big n Daft

The big red L not give it away then? Lack of road sense, common courtesy? Yep sounds like every learner who is maybe enjoying their first foray onto a road.

She/he was 'learning' to drive. I'll bet they needed you like an extra a**ehole. Ever thought perhaps they were in the gutter due to being nervous? Perhaps the behaviour you assumed was them blocking you was down to that well known problem of the wheel following the eyes once the eyes look in the mirrors? This is absolutely nothing to do with how people are taught to drive, more your own road manners and impatience, 400 hours on the road should teach you one thing, people of all abilities share the road.

I wonder if you'd be honest enough to give us your reading of the situation if reversed, a cyclist is the learner and the motorists are in your place. The cyclists fault for being too slow, or the usual aggressive drivers line that gets trotted out?

How long did this add to your journey? A minute, two at the most? Is it worth it for gods sake?

I wonder, did your saying goodbye consist of a gesture? A touch of abuse?

If so, well done, you've possibly turned another potential driver into a cyclist hater.

hamboman

The Road Traffic Act states it is an offence to undertake a car - it's classified as dangerous driving

DavidTQ

hamboman wrote:

The Road Traffic Act states it is an offence to undertake a car - it's classified as dangerous driving

Could you find that quote, Certainly along busy motorways the inside lane can move faster than the outside lane in traffic, I have no problems using a cycle lane to undertake vehicles where I feel its safe to do so.

I have yet to hear of a cyclist charged with "dangerous driving"

As much as I dont agree with the safety of filtering down the left side without a seperate lane, its the default action for many a cyclist I dont believe its illegal in slow moving traffic, sometimes it the only way things move at all.

whome

Just to follow up on my statement that I didn't think undertaking was illegal.

The highway code clearly wants you to overtake on the right, not the left, but never says it is illegal except on a hard shoulder. So my understanding is this would be seen as a risky maneuver i.e. contributory negligence in any accident, but I guess it might be possible, depending on conditions, to be part of an due care and attention offence.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/23.htm

241: Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe to do so.
Overtake only on the right. You should ...

242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions ...

243: You MUST NOT use the hard shoulder for overtaking.
Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5 & 9 & MT(S)R regs 4 & 8

nicklouse

it may be the default action of most cyclists but it is not where any driver is expecting to be passed on. and also the L driver may have been told by the instructor to move ower to allow the cyclist to overtake? to where should the driver move?

Motorways are different as you are in defined lanes and you are allowed to pass qued trafic but you are not allowed to switch lane to do this.

spasypaddy

I wonder, did your saying goodbye consist of a gesture? A touch of abuse?

no, i didnt abuse him at all. I muttered under my breath but did not give the driver any abuse. I never actually give drivers abuse as i work in a pretty rough area and its been known that people have been stabbed round here for just cutting someone up at some lights.

I kept back until it was safe for me to pass, i didnt sit in his mirrors or on his arse just waited until i could get past, it just infuriated me. I did not take it out on the driver at all, but his instructor should of been more aware!

cupofteacp

You are allowed to overtake on left in slow moving traffic, ie London

Before passing comment on a learner maybe you should pass your test, as you don’t appear to have managed that yet and once you’ve passed maybe you’d have a better idea, moreover I guess that as you’ve not passed you test you are young and have not learnt self control or patience, don’t worry try driving / cycling in London for the next 20 / 30 / 40 year and you’ll get it, or a record.

You should also be warned that your impatience as someone once said, “you’re ego’s writing cheques your body can’t cash son”.

I wish you good luck cycling

whome

hamboman wrote:

The Road Traffic Act states it is an offence to undertake a car - it's classified as dangerous driving

Which road traffic act is that then and why does the highway code not mention it is illegal? As I quoted in my previous post, the HC makes it very clear that it is not the right way to do it, but since it always backs up legal requirements with "MUST / MUST NOT" and does not have those in this case (AFAICT) it should not be an offence.

Filtering is definitely not illegal, it is taught on motorcycle training and allowable on your test. It is just overtaking (even when going between lanes) and therefore contributory negligence if something goes wrong that you should have allowed for.

Lanes going faster/slower on multi-lane roads is covered under 242 which I snipped.

242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.


But again, it never says you MUST NOT overtake on the left, so there will not be an associated road traffic act.

edited - missed a not[/b]

BentMikey

Bad spasipaddy!!! I can understand the frustration, but it's wrong and you know it.

spasypaddy

cupofteacp wrote:

You are allowed to overtake on left in slow moving traffic, ie London

Before passing comment on a learner maybe you should pass your test, as you don’t appear to have managed that yet and once you’ve passed maybe you’d have a better idea, moreover I guess that as you’ve not passed you test you are young and have not learnt self control or patience, don’t worry try driving / cycling in London for the next 20 / 30 / 40 year and you’ll get it, or a record.

You should also be warned that your impatience as someone once said, “you’re ego’s writing cheques your body can’t cash son”.

I wish you good luck cycling

i am indeed only 21, and i am more than capable of driving on the road without having passed my test (i just cant afford it!). I've been cycling on roads for about 10 years in and around London as well as in Leeds where i was based for university. I dont undertake unless its really necessary as I've had a very nasty accident once already that left me in hospital and £400 worth of damage to my bike.

I didn't show the driver that i'd lost my temper and i didnt try and get up his arse to make him speed up. I still dealt with him on the road in the correct manner i just wanted to vent about how his slowness had infuriated me.

I'm sorry i gave the impression that i did actually lose my temper with him and i also made sure that i posted that i dont cycle particularly quickly. So my ego isnt huge now that that is in question!

cupofteacp

"vent about how his slowness had infuriated me"

Does it matter?

I'm not having a go, you just sound like me when I was 20 odd all though I was lucky and passed my test before I was 18, thank you Bejams

Relax

Eat My Dust

400 hours and you haven't passed your test!!!!! :oops:

PrettyBoyTim

Pffff. I didn't pass until the fourth go, and I was 31 years old.

There's no hurry.

spasypaddy

havent passed my test because i cant afford to, its £100 for a test! I was on my mothers insurance thats how i got my 400 hours

jakob_s

spasypaddy wrote:

i am indeed only 21, and i am more than capable of driving on the road without having passed my test (i just cant afford it!).

Actually, I think that you proved with your initial post that you aren't capable of driving on the road.

spasypaddy

jakob_s wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

i am indeed only 21, and i am more than capable of driving on the road without having passed my test (i just cant afford it!).

Actually, I think that you proved with your initial post that you aren't capable of driving on the road.

if i had actually done something wrong then yes i would agree with you but as i didnt do anything wrong and didnt react directly to him and only came on here to vent i disagree with you

PrettyBoyTim

jakob_s wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

Actually, I think that you proved with your initial post that you aren't capable of driving on the road.

Cripes! I don't think we can start holding people accountable for things they thought but didn't act upon!

spasypaddy

Cripes! I don't think we can start holding people accountable for things they thought but didn't act upon!

cheers for backing me up

cntl

I am definitely on the learner's side. You sound like one of those drivers complaining about a bicycle "holding them up.". Why don't you just chill out and cycle behind the learner? Does a few minutes make any dramatic difference to your life? Maybe he saved you life-maybe, had he not been there, you would have ended up under a lorry, or something.

jakob_s

spasypaddy wrote:

jakob_s wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

i am indeed only 21, and i am more than capable of driving on the road without having passed my test (i just cant afford it!).

Actually, I think that you proved with your initial post that you aren't capable of driving on the road.

if i had actually done something wrong then yes i would agree with you but as i didnt do anything wrong and didnt react directly to him and only came on here to vent i disagree with you

You insisted on undertaking when you could quite easily have overtaken him. You let your ego get in the way ("He's holding me up") and insisted on getting around him in a more dangerous way rather than showing consideration to someone who's clearly not as confident on the road as you. (Going slowly, with an L-plate).