Weight training
Comments
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A few pics jump to mind Zabel celebrating hands in the air. Even Lance at the top of D'huez with rippling and quite large biceps. Robbie Mcewans big triceps.
It is without doubt that lifting weights for strength, musle balance, tone...call it what you will is a part of all of their training regimes. The thing is that this can be achieved by lifting
for around 30-40 minutes three times per week in the morning before they go out on their rides. The benefits to them is reduced risk of injury from muscle imbalances, weak cores, protection in crashes. There is a slight weight penalty of a few pounds. But for non-climbers this isn't too much of an issue. If your racing in England predominantly I don't see the problem.
Many world class coaches seem to take this kind of viewpoint too.0 -
RyanBrook wrote:A few pics jump to mind Zabel celebrating hands in the air. Even Lance at the top of D'huez with rippling and quite large biceps. Robbie Mcewans big triceps.
It is without doubt that lifting weights for strength, musle balance, tone...call it what you will is a part of all of their training regimes. The thing is that this can be achieved by lifting
for around 30-40 minutes three times per week in the morning before they go out on their rides. The benefits to them is reduced risk of injury from muscle imbalances, weak cores, protection in crashes. There is a slight weight penalty of a few pounds. But for non-climbers this isn't too much of an issue. If your racing in England predominantly I don't see the problem.
Many world class coaches seem to take this kind of viewpoint too.
Where's that 'TAKE COVER' emoticon?
And I am old enough to remember how 'science' (as perceived /presented to teh public at least ) can change over the years. Remember that funny Chinese thing acupuncture - not science - but now its an accepted part of teh medicinal arsenal. Keeping hospitals clean used to save peoples lives long before antibiotics were discovered. Its claimed somebody said electricity would never catch on ... etc etc. Science itself isn't proof of anything - its a way of thinking and dealing with the world....BLUE TOCUH PAPER Emoticon here please
World used to be flat too.0 -
The thing is that when you are an inexperienced rider you will devour training articles in cycling publications; listen to club mates who have been racing for years and then put into practice what you believe will work for you. Nothing wrong with that, I used to do it myself.
After a while and if you keep a training diary you can see how your performances vary and then adapt your training regime accordingly to produce the opitmum results. I think it's fair to say that I am an experienced racing cyclist and I'm sorry but for me to suggest that strength is not one of the requirements of being a successful rider is utter rubbish; and I don't care what any research may say to the contrary.
And..............the earth is round.0 -
Mike, Mike I'm on your side (and Ryan' s for that matter)!!! I agree with you.....
All I meant was that there might well be 'science' that appears to prove theories and /not support/disprove anecdotal evidence, but many of these scientific positions can change. I support the 'weight training can be beneficial' idea - but also that its a matter of horses for courses too.
Other contributors may well think a product they sell is the best thing since sliced bread and that weight training is a waste of time for endurance sports people. They might even be able to provide peer reviewed research to support their claims, but if you and many other people think weight training of some kind (and its a matter of definition too) helps you cycle better then that's fine by me - for what its worth
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What we need is a clone of Mike Willcox (now I never thought I'd see *that* sentence in print :-) ) - one can carry on training as he does, the other can bin the upper body/core strength training and start using a powermeter instead. Then we can have them race each other....Le Blaireau (1)0
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I must have left the "tounge held firmly in my cheek" emoticon off my post.Ste_S wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Yes, it's amazing what can be done with computer graphics too. Do any of you really believe the posed photos you see in magazines are actually faithful representations of the face/body in question?
Funniest post I've read all year. While I've no doubt the cover 'stars' of FHM etc are air brushed to infinity, claiming a pic of Boonen has been doctered to support your theory is proper
Besides - what "theory" of mine is it supporting? :?0 -
DaveyL wrote:What we need is a clone of Mike Willcox (now I never thought I'd see *that* sentence in print :-) ) - one can carry on training as he does, the other can bin the upper body/core strength training and start using a powermeter instead. Then we can have them race each other....
Next year will be my 4th attempt at a comeback (notwithstanding crashes, statin poisining, and heart attacks), and we shall see what can be done with "old school" methods at the ripe old age of 59. 0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
I must have left the "tounge held firmly in my cheek" emoticon off my post.Ste_S wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Yes, it's amazing what can be done with computer graphics too. Do any of you really believe the posed photos you see in magazines are actually faithful representations of the face/body in question?
Funniest post I've read all year. While I've no doubt the cover 'stars' of FHM etc are air brushed to infinity, claiming a pic of Boonen has been doctered to support your theory is proper
Besides - what "theory" of mine is it supporting? :?
There seems to be a bloody great hole appearing with you shovelling like mad. 0 -
Not in my current condition, I'd fall over!Mike Willcox1 wrote:There seems to be a bloody great hole appearing with you shovelling like mad. 0 -
Mike Willcox1 wrote:ut_och_cykla wrote:Bin - they are not big muscles - he's a leader in an endurance sport - but I'm not sure you'd get what he's got ONLY from riding the bike either - the trapezius in particular looks surprisingly well developed.
You don't get Abs like that either from just sitting in the saddle and pedalling.
Everyone has got abs like that - it's just that most people hide them under a substantial layer of body fat! Unsurprisingly for an endurance athelete he obviously has very low body fat levels (i'd guess ~6-7%) and therefore he has excellent muscle definition. The rest of his musclature looks fairly normal and doesn't suggest that he lifts weights. Remember also that some people naturally have more muscle mass then others, even if they've never touched a weight in their life!0 -
I think the take-home message from this is that for some people weights do work and for others not. I know there are plenty of pros who do weights and plenty who don't. A lot of the guys who do the Classics do weights, not for bulk but for stability and core strength. For me weights work and I do have the time to incorporate them into a full training program.
BTW Alex, didn't realise you're the same guy from cyclingforums. I've been reading your blogs and your attitude really inspires me. I'm glad things are on the up for you and I wish you luck with the ongoing recovery. I had a bad accident with a circular saw when I was younger that pretty much put paid to my hopes of becoming a basketball player but you adapt and other things come along...-- Dirk Hofman Motorhomes --0 -
superlightweight wrote:Mike Willcox1 wrote:ut_och_cykla wrote:Bin - they are not big muscles - he's a leader in an endurance sport - but I'm not sure you'd get what he's got ONLY from riding the bike either - the trapezius in particular looks surprisingly well developed.
You don't get Abs like that either from just sitting in the saddle and pedalling.
Everyone has got abs like that - it's just that most people hide them under a substantial layer of body fat! Unsurprisingly for an endurance athelete he obviously has very low body fat levels (i'd guess ~6-7%) and therefore he has excellent muscle definition. The rest of his musclature looks fairly normal and doesn't suggest that he lifts weights. Remember also that some people naturally have more muscle mass then others, even if they've never touched a weight in their life!
Another load of old cobblers.
On the one hand you can still see abs on fatter people who do core exerciises and on the other hand you can be skinny and have none. My weedy step son (who fortunately won't be reading this) is far skinnier than Tom Boonen and there isn't an ab in sight.
I've never seen any abs like that on anyone who doesn't do core exercises and if you are honest neither have you.0 -
Ric_Stern/RST wrote:BlackHelmet wrote:I'm sure I once saw a quote from a coach of LA that the key was to weight train for a period of time THEN convert that strength gain into a cycling benefit by doing intervals and hill climbs etc.
while you may have seen such a quote (which i don't doubt)...
intervals* and hill climbs have no correlation to strength, the forces in such instances are very low such that sedentary people (who are healthy, the same gender, and mass matched) can reach them. For e.g., winning the mountain TT on Alpe d'Huez, in 2004 (i think) would have required an average force of about 25 kg between both legs, which, can be met by most people (if you can't meet this, you're unlikely to stand up, unless you're very small...)
The only time strength plays a big component is in e.g., standing start sprints, which lets face it aren't hugely crucial to road races, TTs, MTBing etc.
Brownie points for anyone who can tell me when a standing start sprint was extremely important in a road race.
Ric
Paris-Roubaix 2006 following the notorious level crossing stop about 10km from the end? Tho' I'm not sure I can remember whether Boonen, Flecha and Balan, who stopped, attacked one another immediately after the barrier lifted.0 -
I wonder if similar studies have been done with rowing. Essentially the amount of strength required per stroke in a rowing race could be met by a untrained sedentary person just as easily as one revolution for a cyclist pedalling up a bloody great hill.
The rower is seated, the feet are secured and the hands are on the oar(s). Pretty similar to the rider eh?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 189404.stm
It seems that weight training is considered in this sport as least to be worthwhile
Edited - by all accounts rowing at olympic level, each stroke is like lifting a dead weight of 80kgs @ cadence of up to 50 strokes per minute - phew!0 -
I don't know that much about rowing but they do have a "standing start" (i.e. a start from zero velocity, with the initial acceleration an important influence on the outcome of the race), similar to track cycling TTs, where maximal force ability plays a major role in the outcome, so some strength gym work would make some face value sense for rowers.
Rowing events are generally fairly short compared to endurance cycling, although they are still predominantly aerobic, there would also be a significant contribution of one's anaerobic work capacity - very similar to a track pursuiter/kilo rider.
The other point about rowing stroke rate of 40 is only 40 "pulls" per minute, whereas in cycling, a cadence of 100 rpm is actually 200 pedal downstrokes "pushes" per minute. Presumably the force applied is in inverse proportion to the pull/push rate when each is at VO2 Max or MAP.0 -
Just been looking at the Rebecca Romero Web site. She was women's British Time Trial champion 2006 following on from world champion rower 2005.
http://www.rebeccaromero.co.uk/index.htm0 -
So what ?0
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blackhands wrote:So what ?
Well see if you can work this out.
Someone who works at Morgan Grenfell. (Clue Cockney Rhyming Slang).0 -
Cross over from rowing to cycling is not unexpected, since the basics of the engine are present in both.
The late Amy Gillett was an Olympic rower who became a pro road cyclist with the AIS:
http://www.ausport.gov.au/media/obituar ... illett.asp
And Chris Hoy (Olympic and World champ kilo rider) was also a rower in the Scottish junior team:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hoy0
