Time Trialling - too much about the kit?

JustRidecp

andrewgturnbull wrote:

The more observant amongst you might have notices that if I've done 2 degrees, the second must have been a postgrad...

Cheers, Andy

and condescending too apparently. You must get a great view from your high horse.

LangerDan

Lest anyone get all misty-eyed at the simplicity, equality and stonking good value of TT-ing in the good old days before wallets and disc wheels ruined it all, don't believe for a moment that all bikes were equal then either. Silk tubs, lightweight (for the time) 24 and 28 spoke wheels, polished bearings and drilled components were all the preserve of the people who could afford such exotica. Hell, even something as mundane as a skinsuit was out of reach for most comptitors 30 years ago.

frenchfighter

I am assuming you are on holiday Dr Turnball as how else would you find time to read then reply to posts during a day at work as hard as you make yours out to be.

Saying: Like or not, cycling is no longer the working class sport it was in your father's day! is not a very nice thing to say. It is also elitist and suggests that you think the 'working class' should now not take part.

As soon as you can afford it you'll be buying disc wheels off ebay too. - Will we

pps All the aero kit will be coming out this weekend - snide remark and most unecessary.

In addition your views on university - And don't try to pretend that uni is hard work - are diminishing and certainly not true for many, many people.

The more observant amongst you - no need to take this attitude, especially as no one said your second degree wasn't a postgrad.

Your language and comments on other posts is not exactly exemplary either.

andrewgturnbull

frenchfighter wrote:

I am assuming you are on holiday Dr Turnball as how else would you find time to read then reply to posts during a day at work as hard as you make yours out to be.

Damn, you've caught me skiving - bang to rights gov.

frenchfighter wrote:

Saying: Like or not, cycling is no longer the working class sport it was in your father's day! is not a very nice thing to say. It is also elitist and suggests that you think the 'working class' should now not take part.

Puh-lease. Not a very nice thing to say? I do hope you're not always so easily offended. Think of it as a piece of social commentary rather than an elitist statement. Not many club runs stop to 'drum up' these days.

frenchfighter wrote:

As soon as you can afford it you'll be buying disc wheels off ebay too. - Will we

Ok - so I'm speculating here, but I have noticed that most people who stick around and race at a consistently high level do end up buying nice kit. You of course might prove to be the exception.

frenchfighter wrote:

pps All the aero kit will be coming out this weekend - snide remark and most unecessary.

You've got me flummoxed there. Why is that a snide comment? I might have an important race coming up or something...

frenchfighter wrote:

In addition your views on university - And don't try to pretend that uni is hard work - are diminishing and certainly not true for many, many people.

DIminishing? Not sure I follow that either.

frenchfighter wrote:

The more observant amongst you - no need to take this attitude, especially as no one said your second degree wasn't a postgrad.

Sorry, but I thought that was exactly what you were saying?

frenchfighter wrote:

Your language and comments on other posts is not exactly exemplary either.

I am dreadfully sorry sir.

Cheers, Andy

ps I've just re-read my response and realised that I've just taken the trouble to defend what was a light-hearted post in the first place. But please - don't let that stop you! Feel free to go ahead and get all offended again!

andrewgturnbull

JustRidecp wrote:

andrewgturnbull wrote:

The more observant amongst you might have notices that if I've done 2 degrees, the second must have been a postgrad...

Cheers, Andy

and condescending too apparently. You must get a great view from your high horse.

;-)

Jeff Jones

In a possibly futile attempt to keep this thread on track, I think TTs are what you want them to be. Mind you, I'm only a newcomer to the British TT scene.

For some, it's about winning. Nothing wrong with that, is there? At club 10s I've been to, there are rules to stop you turning up on a motorbike, but they do allow you to ride with mostly UCI-legal equipment. So if you're aiming to be competitive, then you're going to do whatever you can within the rules to win. Unless of course you're a win at all costs type, in which case you'll cheat.

For others, it's about improving on their own performances. The only way to know this is by using the same equipment on the same course in the same conditions. Some don't care what their actual time is, only the relative difference and whether they are improving or not. They can be perfectly happy on a bog-standard bike. Others want to go as fast as they can, which means investing a lots of cash in fancy equipment. Nothing wrong with that - it's how the whole bike industry works!

So each rider has their own standards, and I have no problem with that as long as everyone operates within the rules. If you don't like the rules, then form a purists time trialling league. Just be careful where you set the bar.

From a personal point of view, I have been racing on a standard road bike with no tri-bars or fast wheels all year. I know how fast I can go, and the difference between a good and a bad ride. But I'm keen to know what difference a full TT setup will make, partly because I have a scientific bent and partly because I might actually do alright. I also wouldn't laugh at anyone who chooses to get all the kit but is not particularly quick. They're out there riding a bike, which is bloody fantastic in my opinion.

From the club and open TTs that I've done, I haven't noticed anything other than good natured rivalry at the top, middle or bottom ends of the results spectrum. As racing disciplines go, time trialling has a low key feel to it.

Finally, can we stop with the public tit-for-tat please?

John Stevenson

As Freddie Mercury used to say, "Talent will out". Barrie Clarke used to turn up at his local club 10s on his race mountain bike with 1in slicks and trounce everyone.

It does surprise me - as someone who hasn't done a time trial in almost 20 years I have to confess - that there isn't an 'open' category and a 'road bike' category, the latter restricted to bikes that are legal for a BCF or UCI mass-start race.

I guess the extra scrutineering would be a pain, though.

JustRidecp

andrewgturnbull wrote:

JustRidecp wrote:

andrewgturnbull wrote:

The more observant amongst you might have notices that if I've done 2 degrees, the second must have been a postgrad...

Cheers, Andy

and condescending too apparently. You must get a great view from your high horse.

;-)

Total fanny.

ta-ra.

andrewgturnbull

JustRidecp wrote:

andrewgturnbull wrote:

;-)

Total fanny.

ta-ra.

[shrug]

Who's being offensive now?

JustRidecp

The more observant amongst you might have noticed that I didn't claim you were being offensive. I call a spade a spade and a fud a fud.

Its clear from reading your previous posts that one of your main aims is to provoke a response. Well done, you got one. I'd take a look at your interpersonal skills cause there's obviously something lacking - highlighted by the fact that more than one person took exception to your attitude.

Titanium

Cut it out guys. Use the PM feature to trade insults if you have to.

dsoutar

Yeah, I thought this thread was about TTs

Anyway I did my first 10 last week and I can sort of see both sides of the coin. Whilst I can see why people might want to get all the latest kit in order to get a faster time, won't that just prove the fastest one can go with the best kit. Surely it's best to compare each ride in a simlar fashion. That's why I can't understand these people who charge around trying to find the fastest course. It may be a PB but isn't it like comparing apples with pears ?

Anyway, what do I know.

Johnny G

I only started doing TTs this year. I ride my usual road bike and I know my times will never be any threat to Wiggo's. I'm just comparing my times week-to-week under similar conditions, so for me there's no point spending money on an exotic TT bike. This is just my approach though, and I would vigorously defend the right of any cyclist to add to their stable or to splash out on some bling accessories or clothing! :P

heavymental

Theres only one way to sort this out....a BikeRadar TT!

I got a tenner on the Turnbull just cus his name reminds me of that headmaster out of Matilda! :twisted:

kevin_stephens

Having a dedicated TT bike doesn't have to be about Bling

I started doing TTs a few weeks ago after buying a second hand steel TT bike, and getting hooked on the endorphins coming down from 30:54 to 27:43 at about a minute a week so far.

For me the TT bike is more about having different seat angle / crank length/gear ratios to enable me to expend more effort over a shorter period than I could on my road bike. I don't expext aerodynamic wheels, helmet, leg shaving :oops: to make a big difference until/if i get down to 24 minutes (in 4 weeks at current rate of progress :x , well maybe not )

If I ever get that far maybe i will have earned some bling wheels

graemetherunner

Athetes hour - rubbish... its now even more about money and ultra fine tuning in wind tunnels that no one can afford to make the obviously less efficent - more efficent.


however I enjoy nothing more than turning up on an mtb (with slicks) and giving those overweight carbon freeks a good bashing

iainf72

graemetherunner wrote:

however I enjoy nothing more than turning up on an mtb (with slicks) and giving those overweight carbon freeks a good bashing

Why? I find it odd - If someone has enough money and wants to buy all that sort of stuff, good for them. They're doing it for their own pleasure, not to try and make people who can't afford it like they're not good enough.

graemetherunner

iainf72 wrote:

Why? I find it odd - If someone has enough money and wants to buy all that sort of stuff, good for them. They're doing it for their own pleasure, not to try and make people who can't afford it like they're not good enough.

why do I enjoy it... cos its a challenge & if they spent a little more time thinking about & doing some training they would be much better riders. You've made an assumption its about money / snobbery - I have a full TT setup too. Anything that gets people into cycling can only be a good thing.

Ever raced a boy racer from the lights in his bling car in some old heap - satisfaction?
wolf in sheeps clothing etc.

bigdaveskinnytyre

graemetherunner wrote:

however I enjoy nothing more than turning up on an mtb (with slicks) and giving those overweight carbon freeks a good bashing

Bugger outsprints me on my road bike with it as well :?

I suppose it's a bit like the pleasure I get from overtaking full suss mountain bikes downhill on my cross bike.

Having an effective TT bike does not have to cost a fortune, I built up an E-Bay special which I sold to one of our Juniors for under £250 it would have been a dream bike back when I was a Junior (The world wasn't even black and white then ).

SteveR_100Milers

I can afford a TT bike, but choose to compete on my road bike with clip ons until my times are in the top half of the field or have gone sub hour on a 25 and within a minute of 2 for a 50. The the CC will be out and wahey I'll knock 5%-10% of those times in one go, and gues what...I nor anyone else in the events will give a toss! We all know what effect the bikes have, and since cycling isnt just about legs as it involves a mechanism known as a bicycle aswell then its difficult to divorce the two. It's simple, if you want to go fast then make a bike to suit. Doesnt have to cost much money, go read Obree book if you cant figure out how. Maybe "itsallinthehead" is more apt for TTing.

dave_1

Titanium wrote:

Cut it out guys. Use the PM feature to trade insults if you have to.

Hi Titanium
welcome back. You vanished around Xmas 06. Who is the American in your profile photo? Alexei Grewal? Or you ?

SCOTT325SE

. . . .

oldwelshman

PhilthyPhil wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Personally I do not think it makes that much diference at "our" level, 30 seconds at most which is probably how much you could loose or gain due to conditions.

Better (more aero) kit makes MORE of a difference to the slower rider than the faster rider in a time trial due to the fact that the slower rider will experience the gains over a greater period of time. If the race is for a fixed time period the situation is reversed and the faster rider will gain more.

But slower riders are probably less aero (larger surface area probably) than faster riders so they do not gain as much and also the faster riders will have more air resisitance than slower riders so the aero dynamices are more important at higher speeds than lower.
I think the most gain is to be made by riding position than the aero gear.

SCOTT325SE

oldwelshman wrote:

I think the most gain is to be made by riding position than the aero gear.

Agreed.

DavidBelcher

SCOTT325SE wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

I think the most gain is to be made by riding position than the aero gear.

Agreed.

Me too. It's also what Kevin S. was pointing out in his post - having a separate TT bike is more for the riding position and the improved efficiency that results from that rather than merely 'keeping up with the Joneses'. My road bike, although it has a carbon frame, isn't especially flashy (it has Mirage parts and cheapo Vuelta Zerolite wheels), and the biggest difference I've made to my TTing performance all year is putting a set of equally cheap tri-bars on it, resulting in a top-10 placing in one event and a 10-mile PB. It's tempting to go the whole hog and build a lo-pro on a budget, but don't have the room to store it or the finances to justify even a cheap one.

David

SCOTT325SE

you can get a decent position on a standard TT bike though, no need for a lo-pro specifically... just whatever works well for individuals init?

Eurostar

How about taking a tip from the modern pentathlon? Steeds should be put in a shared pool, and you only find out which one you're riding in a lottery half an hour before the race.

jimmythecuckoo

itsallinthelegs wrote:

I agree that turning up to a club 10 with full TT gear is something to be thoroughly ashamed of.

for some people (not me I hasten to add) if it is there only ride of the week surely they can ride whichever bike they want?

jimmythecuckoo

Eurostar wrote:

How about taking a tip from the modern pentathlon? Steeds should be put in a shared pool, and you only find out which one you're riding in a lottery half an hour before the race.

I did suggest to our club having one round of our club 10 series as a "Roadmans" event. No lo-pros, no disc's, no tri-bars.

Sadly it got the veto, but I think this would help get some people riding TT's and away from the impression that you need to spend thousands of ££'s to participate.

Jez mon

I think if you add little things to your collection over time through eBay, you can get a really aero TT bike for a heck of a lot less than a new cervelo,