What's wrong with Sram?

Big Red S

Erm, as above, really.

I've never ridden Sram's road stuff, but clearly it's not nearly as popular as they thought it would be. Is there anything in particular wrong with it, or is it just everyone sticking to what they know?

phil s

££££

John Stevenson

It took SRAM a while to really make solid inroads into MTB spec where it matters - at OEM. I am sure they will have budgeted for a long campaign to achieve decent presence on the road too.

Noodley

phil s wrote:

££££

yep, once the "lifestyle choice" cyclists notice SRAM exist I am sure they will do well. It will probably take a while for it to filter down to them.

gkerr4

as above - and the fact that their entry level groupset is at ultegra / centaur price bracket!

top_bhoy

gkerr4 wrote:

as above - and the fact that their entry level groupset is at ultegra / centaur price bracket!

The fact that their entry level costs are the same as ultegra / centaur prices shouldn't really matter providing you get ultegra / centaur performance......so does performance equate to either of the two mentioned groupsets???

There are many bikes with either ultegra / centaur groupsets so there is a market at that price bracket. Mind you, I have yet to see the SRAM in 'the flesh' - so to speak

giant_man

SRAM have been in the road groupset market for 5 minutes, they can't expect to take the marketshare from the mighty Shimano and even mightier Campagnolo yet now can they?

No.

ddraver

yep..prohibitavly expensive...at least in MTB they match shimano for prices,...and have caused a giant leap forward in brake and, specifically, gears because of the competition, and that many of the componants are compatable so shimano can't use theyr monopoly approach as campag and shimano do with road gear

herbie12

Also, in the MTB world SRAM have that nice position as 'the only option for people who don't like Shimano'... the Apple to Shimano's Microsoft if you like.

In the road arena there's already someone happily sitting in that space, so they'll have some work to do.

That said, if the road products are as good as the X-range MTB stuff then I'm sure they'll do just fine.

spasypaddy

i have to say i really like the idea of their gear shifters, does anyone know what bikes wear sram and the sort of prices they are? I dont know where to start looking... surely there is a list somewhere of bikes and their components

PhilofCas

their powerlink chains are super duper, i won't (now) use anything else

leonlikestrees

hopefully nothing wrong, as I've just ordered a Rival groupset.

Rival is pricey compared to Ultegra, but I don't think it's a fair comparison - it's much more like Chorus.

Basically, once you have taken the finish out of the equation, the only differences between rival and force are:

Crank arms
carbon and magnesium brake/gear lever blades
titanium pivot on the brake calipers.

Everything else is exactly the same!

All you lose is a little weight and looks.

With Shimano, Dura-Ace and XTR aren't even made in the same factory as the cheaper stuff, and are really an order of magnitude better in terms of quality of materials and manufacture.

At least, I hope all this is true, as that's what I've just based my buying decision on!

(oh, and if you shop around, it's not so pricy. Seems to be quite cheap in Germany)

wildmoustache

it's pricey for untried and tested stuff.

and i'm afraid there have been problems. ... exploding rear derailleurs, chainsets that are not as good as the competition, heavy cassettes at light cassette prices.

i really do like their hoods though ... the nicest of the three IMO.

spasypaddy

are there any bikes that you can buy off the peg with SRAM fitted?

wildmoustache

yeah ... Scott bikes. Canyon i think also. Any others?

drenkrom

I know Devinci equip some models with SRAM out of the box, but most of the bigger manufacturers are playing the waiting game, I think.

spasypaddy

its also extremely expensive at the moment... if its on a par with ultegra surely you should be able to get it on a £1000 bike not £2k with reduction

wildmoustache

yeah, how much are the FORCE shifters again??? something absolutely farcical from memory like £350!!! They are having a laugh ... and Record is lighter.

I honestly don't see the argument for Force against Dura Ace or Record. With Rival the case is a bit stronger but I'd personally prefer Chorus, or pay a bit more for DA, save a bit for Ultegra.

spasypaddy

i really like the idea of the way it shifts, i wouldnt mind having a go on one of them but i dont know whether i would want to move over to it...

saying that im still on sora until i get my new bike in a couple of months!

Dorian Gray

Funny, I don't like the idea of how it shifts at all. But I haven't tried it yet, so who knows.

Big Red S wrote:

I've never ridden Sram's road stuff, but clearly it's not nearly as popular as they thought it would be.

What makes you think it isn't as popular as they thought it would be? It's being sold on lots of bikes already. Orbea sell some of their high-end bikes with SRAM stuff now. The Orca and Opal at least. Bianchi do too. SRAM isn't new to the OEM market so I don't think the manufacturers are too worried about introducing bikes with the new SRAM stuff. They don't have a low-end gruppo yet, so of course overall sales won't be very high yet. But SRAM certainly weren't stupid enough to think they'd take over the market overnight with a couple of high-end gruppos. They're in this for the long-haul.

I think they're doing very well. Shimano and Campagnolo have amazing know-how, Shimano especially in engineering, Campagnolo especially in cutting-edge manufacturing (though they both obviously do everything very well). Both of them have huge brand value too. It's a tough market to enter.

Monty Dog

Unless you buy a whole groupset from Europe, the Rival groupset is more expensive than Record. Who would buy a pair of replacement levers for more than £300 when you can buy Record carbons for £175? The brakes apparently don't have anything like the same feel/modulation - as for the chainset - the same ones that were being flogged as Truvativ for £100 are now as expensive as the Record ones?

Big Red S

Dorian Gray wrote:

Big Red S wrote:

I've never ridden Sram's road stuff, but clearly it's not nearly as popular as they thought it would be.

What makes you think it isn't as popular as they thought it would be?

Hm, good point. Should have read 'but it's not nearly as popular as I thought it would be'.

I'm just a little perplexed as to why I've not really seen much interest at all in it. I do follow the MtB market more than the road one, but Sram releasing the X-gen or whatever it was they called their answer to Shimano's MtB kit was very immediate and strong.
I wasn't expecting the same to happen in the slightly-less-fad-following world of the road bike, but the only interest we've had in any of the sram road stuff has been from people who've got sram on their MtBs saying they didn't realise Sram did roadie bits too.

Dorian Gray

I agree with you actually, Big Red S. I'm surprised that big European brands like Bianchi and Orbea are already selling high-end bikes with SRAM Force, but I'm also surprised that there hasn't been much hype around the new SRAM stuff. There's been a bit, sure, but mostly just SRAM themselves trying to drum up interest with photos of prototypes, etc. But where are the drooling cyclists dumping Record in their hundreds? The Force hasn't exactly shaken the cycling parts of the internet, has it?

Monty Dog is quite opinionated about the SRAM gruppos already, but I'm glad another company has come into the market. And SRAM are doing interesting things: have you seen the hollow, one-piece steel cassette for Red, that's lighter than the half-titanium cassettes from Shimano and Campy? That's the kind of innovation that will push Campagnolo to even further exotic materials, and Shimano will probably have to introduce carbon sooner rather than later.

By the way, I think Shimano has more to fear from SRAM than Campagnolo. Campy fans want ultra-light weight and cutting-edge tech, sure, but they also want elegance and beauty and a piece of history in their hands. SRAM can't provide those qualities. Whereas most people who buy Dura-Ace buy it because it's good solid stuff, easily available, and good value for money. SRAM has the potential to compete on those levels.

leonlikestrees

SRAM looks clunky for sure - I did consider getting a centaur groupset instead of my RIval, but then I'd need a whole bunch of new wheels.

I have a feeling that the SRAM stuff will be great for cross, so it's getting a tryout on my road bike and if it goes well, My cross bikes will be going to rival.

I like the tidyness, and internal simplicity of the levers, and the weight will definitely be an advantage when hoiking the bike around.

It should also be more tolerant of mud etc.

It's not as pretty as DA or even campag veloce though, IMO

ddraver

from MTB - it does tend to be chunkier in shifting and somewhat less glamourous

but it just never ever feels like its going to go wrong ever....there s something satsfying about a massive CHUNK

leguape

leonlikestrees wrote:

SRAM looks clunky for sure - I did consider getting a centaur groupset instead of my RIval, but then I'd need a whole bunch of new wheels.

I have a feeling that the SRAM stuff will be great for cross, so it's getting a tryout on my road bike and if it goes well, My cross bikes will be going to rival.

I like the tidyness, and internal simplicity of the levers, and the weight will definitely be an advantage when hoiking the bike around.

It should also be more tolerant of mud etc.

It's not as pretty as DA or even campag veloce though, IMO

I tihnk Pezcycling ran it for cross. As for looking clunky, it sure doesn't feel it (been riding Rival since January). Shifts smoother and cleaner than Shimano, quiet and efficient as well as darned hardwearing. Oh and it comes up as new without much cleaning effort - I can still make the drivetrain look as good as new within 10 minutes of Muc-Off, warm water, some brushes and a chain cleaning tool.

Tom Butcher

I think it's a bit of a myth that people buy campag because of the history or the aesthetics. I use it because I find it much more reliable than shimano, once set up it tends to stay set up better, the shape of the ergos suits me and I find the brakes more positive which again is something I like. I just find it better than Shimano - nothing to do with brand values. I'm sure there are plenty of people who choose Shimano because they think it's better than campag. Both brands will be equally vulnerable to sram if it gets the product right - but I doubt people will change unless it gets rave reviews or they have a reason to be disatisfied with their current set up.

meenaghman

Of course it does make you wonder where its going to go soon... I noticed a number of teams in the tour were trying electronic shifters and read a bit about them in the comic. I suspect that this will be the way to go for road machines. no wires, and compatability again.. well at least I hope compatability again.. it should be very easy to have a dip switch to make derailleur work for various cassette spacings at the rear. Obviously battery life and weight are still an issue, but with a number of frames on the market now requiring lead shot to get below UCI limits, the weight shouldn't soon be a problem, and equipment is becoming more economical, and batteries are becoming better in storing charge for longer.
With this just around the corner I'm wondering why SRAM decided to launch a wire controlled high end groupset..given that both Campag and Shimano have electronic shifters waiting in the wings for general release, which I presume would be high end devices initially.

magliaceleste

I saw some Bianchi's the other day with SRAM, wasn't sure what to think.

SRAM powerlink chains are only good on MTBs. On road bikes the links are not re-usable - so in fact they are basically regular chains. I can't see what SRAM bring to the road world, especially at their somewhat inflated prices, but I guess more competition is good.

I'm a big fan of SRAM on MTBs though. SRAM got a big break when Shimano tried to force the MTB world into integrated systems. In the road world it's a different kettle of fish.

Tom Butcher

Why are power links not reusable - isn't that the whole point of them ?

passout

Works very well, but so does Shimano at a lower price.