I smashed car's windshield

Nigeyy

Cntl, my hat off to you, personally I think you did the right thing. Course, I don't think it's cut and dried either:

For me the question lies with intent. If that driver knowingly and intentionally tried to cut you off or otherwise treat you in a way that is less than respectful and may have endangered you, I have to admit I wouldn't have paid and would have cycled away. My way of thinking is that had he not been intentionally disrespectful, he wouldn't have had a broken windshield.

The problem here is that I think it's incredibly hard to prove his actions were intentionally malicious towards to you given the situation you describe (well, short of "oy mate, I'm gong to ram you off the road" sort of thing). Sometimes people just make mistakes (surely we've all made some and perhaps some could be interpreted as being aggressive??), sometimes people just don't see a cyclist -or even a car or lorry for that matter! That's not to say this didn't happen in your situation, just that it's hard to be definitively sure.

Given that, I think I'd personally pay, and I certainly respect your decision to do so. Who knows, perhaps the driver did do it on purpose, perhaps he is dismissive of cyclists, perhaps he is a danger to cyclists, perhaps.... but the problem for me is that it's "perhaps". Better than "perhaps" for me though is that you did the right thing.

About a year ago, my wife reversed into a car by accident -she left a note on the car giving her details and we paid for the damage. I was so proud of my wife for doing that (means I'm married to the right person for me). I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about whether or not the person who owned the car would do the same thing if the situation was reversed, but then I realized I could never know that for sure, and it's not about that person, it's about my wife (or the both of us and how we choose to act). Sadly I've been the recipient of a broken headlight and huge scrape on the car before by a person who must have realized what they'd done but chose to just drive away. I don't want me or my family to be like that. Sounds like your family isn't like that either.

homercles

Nigeyy wrote:

it's not about that person, it's about my wife (or the both of us and how we choose to act). Sadly I've been the recipient of a broken headlight and huge scrape on the car before by a person who must have realized what they'd done but chose to just drive away. I don't want me or my family to be like that. Sounds like your family isn't like that either.

Nice post Nigeyy - hear hear.

adifiddler

Eat My Dust wrote:

Some times it's hard for it not to escalate, a driver does something a bit stupid, and even shaking your head can be enough to set them off, never mind that they're allowed to lean on their horn for however long they see fit. I would think the amount of miles you cycle depends on how many 'incidents' you witness/ are part of. My commute alone is around 7k miles a year, plus weekend cycling, so I'd imagine I'd see a fair few 'incidents' in that time!!!

I would agree to a certain extent, when i cycled for the Army team we aimed at doing between 500 and 700 miles a week and most of use were commuting to our camps (in my case a 61 mile round trip each day) and riding in our spear time, our program was loosely based on Boardmans and he was hitting 52000 miles a year at one point.

I have cycled most of my life and have only driven whilst in the army and drove tractors whilst working on the farm. i have never owned my own car. Before you ask i am 38, i chose not to drive. I gave up cycling as a sport and hobby a long time ago but have ridden a bike around town and short trips almost everyday for the last 28 years or so. I suppose that makes me a cyclist and with quite a lot of experience but since getting back into cycling as a hobby and changing my intentions re cycling i have noticed i get far more attention from road users than i ever did, this is partly due to the fact my ability, turn of speed and fitness does not match that of the past.

Its all about attitude on the road if you give the impression of confidence and ability you will experience far less aggression from other road users.

Eat My Dust

adifiddler wrote:

Its all about attitude on the road if you give the impression of confidence and ability you will experience far less aggression from other road users.

Maybe from some 'road users' in the last week I've had 3 people have a go at me for cycling in the 'middle' of the road, when I've barely been in a primary position. When they've said 'middle' of the road, what they actually meant was, they couldn't get passed! If I had been pootling I wouldn't of minded so much, but one of these incidents was in a 30 limit, and I was doing around 32mph. Keeping in mind that this is 3 drivers out of hundreds I suppose it's not bad, but it's these bad encounters that stick in your mind. BTW, one of these encounters ended up with the fanny in the car threatening my life, needless to say, that this was from the security of his driving seat!

Jacomus-rides-Gen

Eat My Dust
...one of these encounters ended up with the fanny in the car threatening my life, needless to say, that this was from the security of his driving seat!

Oh, what a surprise. NOT.

This happens to me so often, admittedly not to verbal abuse level usually, but certainly I will have an engine revved and be tailgated through a particular section along Queen Victoria Road, where there is a central curb slitting the lanes, and it is absolutely NOT safe to overtake there. So I take the lane, and suffer beeps, revs and the odd shouted comment.

I find myself thinkg "I don't look like a novice, I'm doing about 35kmh - if there isn't space, ITS NOT SAFE" I just don't know what runs through cagers minds.

Only once in the last 12 months has a taxi hassled me through that section, all the rest of the time it has been private cars. No busses. No trucks.

adifiddler

Fair comment mate my point is with experience you are less likely to get aggro.

It seems to me that most road users dont understand the primary position when it comes to cycles maybe there sound be a national campaign explaining the correct way for cyclists to position them selves on the road.

This would have two effects, the first to inform cyclist the safest way encouraging more to cycle correctly and secondly motorists might start to understand how cyclists should cycle and be more tolerant.

Jacomus-rides-Gen

Good idea, I am waiting for confirmation of an online petition I have set up, to include cycle awareness training into the driving test, with consultation from cycling organisations.

As soon as the petition goes live, I will post on the forum.

If we can educate drivers early, they won't think about why a cyclist is in primary, they will know that it is because the cyclists feels it is too dangerous for the car to pass at that point. They will also have (hopefully) been trained how to pass sed cyclist, when it becomes safe to do so.

From speaking to my friends about cycling, and explaining primary position to them, they all had a kind of "ohhhhh" moment as realisation dawned that

a) Bad road surface can cause a crash, a cyclist needs to move around to stay safe.
b) Wind affects bikes, cyclists need more room because they can't always control their lateral movements in crosswinds.

The biggest factor in them appriciating cyclists and changing their behaviour was when I asked them to pay close attention to how long they were held up by cyclists in their week of commuting.

One of my friends used the stopwatch on his wristwatch. In his week of commuting he was held up by cyclists for a little over 7 minutes. He sat in traffic jams for over 4 hours.

Big n Daft

I'm also a member of a scooter forum and the comparisons are there to see.

The same complaints, the same problems, the same solution.

As part of driver training, the pupil must spend at least a week on a 50cc scooter.

There is nothing as bum clenching-ly sobering than this. I'm sure a week on a cycle would have the same effect. Problem is, people will forget as soon as they are safely enclosed in steel.

I remember my rider training well.

'Ride like everybody else is trying to kill you at any given moment, you won't go far wrong'

There is no substitute for the defensive rider, who is aware of those around him and what they very well may do next.

I will sign the petition, anything is better than nothing. Although i do have my own theory, instead of painting yellow lines, just gives us a couple of feet of brown instead....on every road. Make these cycle lanes unusable by anything except cycles, with a fine for any other traffic found using them or parked in them.

Hairy Jock

adifiddler wrote:

Fair comment mate my point is with experience you are less likely to get aggro.

It seems to me that most road users dont understand the primary position when it comes to cycles maybe there sound be a national campaign explaining the correct way for cyclists to position them selves on the road.

This would have two effects, the first to inform cyclist the safest way encouraging more to cycle correctly and secondly motorists might start to understand how cyclists should cycle and be more tolerant.

Do you mean something like this from Give Cyclists Room?

Totalnewbie

I'm not surprised drivers don't understand the primary position, many cyclists don't either.

When I first started cycling with the boyf, he asked why I 'stuck out so far' from the gutter. I was doing as I'd been taught on my road lesson from CTUK and explained why, but it hadn't occurred to him until then. Similarly, when I was a student and cycled to uni, I used to hug the curb because that's what I'd seen other cyclists do. Lots of education needed.

adifiddler

Hairy Jock wrote:

adifiddler wrote:

Do you mean something like this from Give Cyclists Room?

No give cyclist room is not a government backed national campaign in the media, in fact very few people know of the campaign unless they have an interest in cycling.

I am talking about a compaign following the lines of bakabilety that is in all of the media for a period of time possible for a year aimed a cyclist to inform them of how to cycle on our roads the up shop of this media exposure car drivers will see it too and will be educated how cyclist should use the road and that they have to right to be there and also highlight the dangers that poor driving can do to cyclists. This would be a two way thing as it could also be used to stigmatise cyclist that RLJ and the such. Education by popular media to the masses.

The last media campaign for cyclists was the car door campaign and how many years ago was that?

towpath hacker

When I read the subject title I thought it was going to relate to something I did the other week.

I was workhorsing along a fairly busy road with cars merrily overtaking when I ran over a gravelly patch and a small stone shot out from under my tyre and smacked into the nearside of a car overtaking me. It made quite a racket - and although the guy drove on, by the time I'd rounded a bend a few minutes later he'd pulled over and was inspecting the near side wing.

Needless to say I rode by as quick as poss. I don't know what I'd have done if he'd challenged me about it? Could he have done anything? It could have made a dent but I wasn't waiting around to look.

shaunone

You know it may have aiready been damaged to go so easerly

snooks

adifiddler wrote:

No give cyclist room is not a government backed national campaign in the media, in fact very few people know of the campaign unless they have an interest in cycling.

Well, buy a sticker, spread the word :-)

I have

My reasoning is that if it makes one driver behind me think, it's done it's job
.

Random Vince

there must have been a chip or flaw in his windscreen for it to shatter more than cracks round where your hand was, they're curved to dissipate impacts through the screen without imense dammage, they're laminated to stop them totally breaking, i've seen bricks fly at windscreens at 70mph and leave a dent but not go through.

Eat My Dust

towpath hacker wrote:

When I read the subject title I thought it was going to relate to something I did the other week.

I was workhorsing along a fairly busy road with cars merrily overtaking when I ran over a gravelly patch and a small stone shot out from under my tyre and smacked into the nearside of a car overtaking me. It made quite a racket - and although the guy drove on, by the time I'd rounded a bend a few minutes later he'd pulled over and was inspecting the near side wing.

Needless to say I rode by as quick as poss. I don't know what I'd have done if he'd challenged me about it? Could he have done anything? It could have made a dent but I wasn't waiting around to look.

I have this hapen often and it was always concerns me a bit, I'm surprised no one has said anything, but I suppose this happens with cars all the time as well. My biggest concern is a stone pinging out from under the tyr and hitting a ped!!!!