Kloden to T-Mobile?

Ste_S

Those who are suggesting that Bertie gives his DNA to the Guarda - What are they going to test it against exactly ?

RichN95.

Ste_S wrote:

Those who are suggesting that Bertie gives his DNA to the Guarda - What are they going to test it against exactly ?

The bags of blood they found at Fuentes's place

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

Ste_S wrote:

Those who are suggesting that Bertie gives his DNA to the Guarda - What are they going to test it against exactly ?

The bags of blood they found at Fuentes's place

Of which how many are attributed to Bertie?

Also, the Guarda have no intention of testing the blood - The cyclists commited no crime. Ullrich's blood was tested because the German law asked for it to be done for a criminal case.

Ste_S

RichN95 wrote:

Ste_S wrote:

Those who are suggesting that Bertie gives his DNA to the Guarda - What are they going to test it against exactly ?

The bags of blood they found at Fuentes's place

There isn't any with AC on. All the other code names have been attributed to other cyclists now, right ?

Kléber

Red blood cells have no DNA. When a rider "donates" blood for a transfusion, the blood collected is put into the centrifuge and spun at high speed. The iron-laden red blood cells move to the outside and the plasma, white cells etc can be extracted. Then the red blood cells are stored.

It could be that there are DNA traces from Fuentes clinic, the lab kits could be contaminated, riders' hairs could have fallen on the carpet (not proof of doping, but it could expose some liars) and it might just be possible that the red blood bags still contain traces of other DNA-containing substances. Still, all this is worthy of a CSI show, I don't think the Spanish police went that far...

flattythehurdler

iainf72 wrote:

Eurostar wrote:

Until he volunteers his DNA I'll assume he's guilty. As you say, why not prove his innocence? It's so bleedin obvious really. No wonder Bruyneel's been so evasive.

I'm so pleased that Tailwind's folded up. Can't stop celebrating :P . It will all be complete when LA is exposed. :twisted:

Yeah, result! The team with the winner of the TdF couldn't get a new sponsor and this bodes well for the sport in general. Double woot, American money is pulling out. Lets hope soon we only get 1 hour of Tour highlights on the TV at the end of the race too and no other cycling.

BTW - Armstrong has retired, perhaps you should move on? What exactly would his "exposing" achieve? Perhaps dealing with the pressing problems the sport is currently facing might be a better idea, eh?




I agree to an extent, but LA's influence continues as does his bullying of anyone he perceives to be weak enough to bully.
As regards AC, if he went to CSC or T mobile i would agree that it would be more likely that he would be cycling clean. As it is, I agree with the German medic who has been vociferous in his denouncements of the tdf yellow jersey.

ContrelaMontre

I saw on a Belgian sport website that Klödi has quit Astana... gee there's a surprise!! Didn't sound like he's got anywhere to go, but I'm waiting to see it reported in English. Sounds like he regrets quitting T-Mob, but doesn't expect to return. We shall see.

Eurostar

iainf72 wrote:

BTW - Armstrong has retired, perhaps you should move on? What exactly would his "exposing" achieve? Perhaps dealing with the pressing problems the sport is currently facing might be a better idea, eh?

I want justice: I want him stripped of his titles and his prize money. I want him unable to travel for fear of being arrested for sporting fraud. The same goes for Bruyneel. The pressing problems facing the sport are...shock horror.. doping! How you can address these problems by letting the biggest cheats retire to count their millions and wield significant political power? He's raped the Tour de France, which is one of the few good things humans have achieved lately, and he must be punished. I just don't understand how those who love the sport can sit back and let him get away with it. Of course there will be financial pain for the sport, but whose fault is that? It will recover in time - the fundamentals are rock solid because it's a wonderful sport that millions of people want to watch. The sponsors will come back once the cheats have been dealt with.

iainf72

Eurostar wrote:

I want justice: I want him stripped of his titles and his prize money. I want him unable to travel for fear of being arrested for sporting fraud.

Does that go for everyone else too? Who are you planning on awards the prize money to then?

It doesn't sound like justice to me, it sounds like you want to satisfy some personal thing.

Eurostar

The important thing is to take the dirty wins out of the history books. Millar was stripped of his rainbow jersey - all the other so-called winners who broke the rules should get the same treatment. Their prize money should be used to sponsor the clean riders who won't have contracts at the end of the season. They are the real victims. If there's any money left over, spend it on national cycling facilities, just as lottery money is spent on GB cycling.

iainf72

How do you propose identifying the clean riders then?

Millar admitted he did something.

Armstrong has not. Nor has he failed a test, therefore he's not going to be stripped of anything. Even if someone talked it's not going to prove anything.

Forget about it and move on.

Eurostar

I realise it's never going to happen and I will have to move on to start enjoying the sport again. I was so enthusiastic the day Gerdemann won - I felt we really had moved on...but then all the shite came down again. I'm so FED UP with all the cheating. It makes my blood boil, and I still don't see an end in sight. The biggest cheats are the ones who need to be taken down the most. I'm disgusted by Zabel and Ullrich who I was once big fans of, but at least Ullrich is off the scene and Zabel soon will be. I try to back Millar but it's painful to operate a double standard for him. What I really dread is Armstrong hanging around the sport lording it over everybody. I really hope we've seen the last of his involvement in a team. He can take his seven yellow jerseys, shove them up his arse and p*ss off.

timoid.

Also does his team and mechanics have to hand back their bonuses for his stages and final placing prize money, team endorsements etc...

Its not as clean cut as punishing the 'wrong doers'

Eurostar

In my dreams I'm the chairman of a truth and reconciliation committee at which every doper, doctor, DS, soigneur and sponsor confesses. I'm sure I could find a way of fairly redistributing all the money - and the jerseys. It would take me a while, but I'd be very persistent.

ricadus

Eurostar wrote:

I'm sure I could find a way of fairly redistributing all the money - and the jerseys. It would take me a while, but I'd be very persistent.

Perhaps this is certain riders invest in real estate as property barons – they want to make sure they still have $$$ in case they have to pay back their winnings.

Ste_S

Eurostar wrote:

The important thing is to take the dirty wins out of the history books. Millar was stripped of his rainbow jersey - all the other so-called winners who broke the rules should get the same treatment. Their prize money should be used to sponsor the clean riders who won't have contracts at the end of the season. They are the real victims. If there's any money left over, spend it on national cycling facilities, just as lottery money is spent on GB cycling.

Err, isn't that most/all of them ? Would you posthumously strip Coppi and Anquetil of their TdF titles ? Both of whom admitted to doping.

iainf72

Eurostar wrote:

I realise it's never going to happen and I will have to move on to start enjoying the sport again. I was so enthusiastic the day Gerdemann won -

Let me see, you're saying Linus is clean because

a) he says so
b ) he looked like he suffered uphill
c) He passed the drug tests

Which one? All three?

You have no proof he is clean. You just believe he is clean.

The point is you just do not know.

PS - How well did the TRC work in South Africa? I can tell you the answer. Not very.

phil s

I would bet my bollocks on Linus being clean

Eurostar

Ste_S wrote:

Eurostar wrote:

The important thing is to take the dirty wins out of the history books. Millar was stripped of his rainbow jersey - all the other so-called winners who broke the rules should get the same treatment. Their prize money should be used to sponsor the clean riders who won't have contracts at the end of the season. They are the real victims. If there's any money left over, spend it on national cycling facilities, just as lottery money is spent on GB cycling.

Err, isn't that most/all of them ? Would you posthumously strip Coppi and Anquetil of their TdF titles ? Both of whom admitted to doping.

Come on, I said cheating, not doping.

timoid.

Eurostar wrote:

Ste_S wrote:

Eurostar wrote:

The important thing is to take the dirty wins out of the history books. Millar was stripped of his rainbow jersey - all the other so-called winners who broke the rules should get the same treatment. Their prize money should be used to sponsor the clean riders who won't have contracts at the end of the season. They are the real victims. If there's any money left over, spend it on national cycling facilities, just as lottery money is spent on GB cycling.

Err, isn't that most/all of them ? Would you posthumously strip Coppi and Anquetil of their TdF titles ? Both of whom admitted to doping.

Come on, I said cheating, not doping.

Okay then lets strip the following of their titles (based on the assumption of guilt due to shady stories)

Contador
Armstrong
Pantani
Ullrich
Delgado
Roche
Hinault
Fignon
Zootemelk (spelling)
Thevenet
Ocana
Merckx

As far as I'm aware all have had suspicions against them or failed dope tests. That leaves Lemond, Van Impe and Raas as the only post Simpson (i.e. drugs really are banned now) champions.

Kléber

There's no point in this exercise of revisionary history. The point isn't to correct the past, it's like saying the French and British forces should be declared winners of the Battle of the Somme as they were the good guys.

Stop looking backwards and concentrate on today's riders. If there was more pressure Contador, even on Armstrong if he keeps opening his mouth, we'd take the sport into a better place.

Ste_S

Eurostar wrote:

Ste_S wrote:

Eurostar wrote:

The important thing is to take the dirty wins out of the history books. Millar was stripped of his rainbow jersey - all the other so-called winners who broke the rules should get the same treatment. Their prize money should be used to sponsor the clean riders who won't have contracts at the end of the season. They are the real victims. If there's any money left over, spend it on national cycling facilities, just as lottery money is spent on GB cycling.

Err, isn't that most/all of them ? Would you posthumously strip Coppi and Anquetil of their TdF titles ? Both of whom admitted to doping.

Come on, I said cheating, not doping.

Let's start with Garin then, he cheated during 1904 and was stripped of his title. I'd imagine he probably did the same (but wasn't caught) in 1903, so let's strip him of that too then.

Next ?

drenkrom

wow... :shock:

can you say "thread hijacking"?

dave_1

Kloeden of the 1,2,3 at Sydney 2000 olympics with Vino and Ullrich. No way should he be allowed back in to T mobile