Kloden to T-Mobile?

iainf72

This was vaugely mentioned in Cyclingnews yesterday - Didn't sound likely but if it did, how would people feel?

Bad move for T-Mobile?

lucretius

I guess that depends on if you have prodigious faith and believe he was clean.

I doubt any PR person would want him near the team.

iainf72

Ahhh, that's if you believe the hype.

I think they're more concerned with not getting caught.

They seem happy enough to hire Hincapie and you'd have to say there are questions?

timoid.

I think Milram should go for him. They're mildly dirty and their sprinting isn't working out these days. How about a German GC contender to shift some milch?

Kléber

Iain, you're so cynical. They probably want Hincapie since T-Mobile has a big network in the US and so it's logical to have a US rider. Even if he doesn't win, they'd get plenty of publicity in the US from him, more than they're getting from Aaron Olsen.

For this same reason, they don't need Kloeden. It's not as if they're lacking coverage in Germany. With Gerdemann and Ciolek

And what if a rider is promised a guaranteed salary and told to ride clean? In this sort of environment, someone at the end of their career could well opt to protect their health and just train hard. An easy life with no pressure. But then again, Honchar appeared to be doing more than just cashing his pay cheques.

Anyway, I've heard Hincapie could go to Slipstream. He already provides them with clothing, in fact his wife is responsible for designing the argyle design.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

Anyway, I've heard Hincapie could go to Slipstream. He already provides them with clothing, in fact his wife is responsible for designing the argyle design.

Really?

That explains it. If Mrs Hincapie told me to wear argyle, I'd probably do it.

ContrelaMontre

I'd be happy. I think Klöden is a classy rider, actually I think he's the classiest rider in the pro-peleton and I like T-Mob.

He is, however, less than classy in his choice of friends and apparent attitude to doping - I would not be surprised if he's a doper. But if he joined T-Mob and said, "I've got nothing to hide. I don't cheat." Then I'd give him the benefit. If he is clean then it makes me doubly angry he joined Team Cheat as I really think if he hadn't had to pull out he would have come top 3 at the TdF(and if he hadn't crashed he would've won)!

If he is as dirty as his mates and as dirty as his 'relaxed' attitude to doping would indicate then hang, draw and quarter him. I wouldn't want him near pro-cycling if he is a dope, let alone T-Mob!

It'd be a shame as I see him as the most naturally talented cyclist of this generation - even if the rest of you think he's dull as ditchwater.

iainf72

On the being cynical, yes I am, but here would be my concern.

T-Mobile hire someone "questionable" and they're doing it for the big paycheck. Great.

They ride clean while at T-Mobile but achieve nothing. Haven't they just taken in Michael with T-Mobile? And haven't they learned from Honchar and Pat Sinketwiz, old habits die hard.

Eurostar

This is idle gossip, but sod it - Cees of Ada wheels was trying to start a rumour on the Serotta forum the other day about T-Mob signing such huge names from Disco that they will be an unstoppable force next year. Going along with the marketing in America theory I suggested Levi and Danielson but he didn't bite. Perhaps he meant Popo. Or even Contador...

(Q. How is Danielson's health - could he be big next year?)

iainf72

Eurostar wrote:

This is idle gossip, but sod it - Cees of Ada wheels was trying to start a rumour on the Serotta forum the other day about T-Mob signing such huge names from Disco that they will be an unstoppable force next year. Going along with the marketing in America theory I suggested Levi and Danielson but he didn't bite. Perhaps he meant Popo. Or even Contador...

(Q. How is Danielson's health - could he be big next year?)

Danielson is someone I thought they would go after. And Levi could be a possible. He's ridden for a German team before.

Popo will probably go to Tinkoff I reckon. Oleg (check out how I act like I know him) has already talked to him and Ernesto Colnago is a big fan too.

Kléber

iainf72 wrote:

Ernesto Colnago is a big fan too.

True, Popo was a hot talent as an amateur in the late 90s and 2000 ( :roll: ) and was backed by Colnago, and he then turned pro with the small Landbouw Credit team, under the influence of the frame builder.

I didn't realise there was a Serrotta forum. Do people swap ideas on Rapha clothing, golf clubs, private banking and the Etape?

Eurostar

It can be a bit tragic. The other day somebody wanted advice on the purchase of his Porsche Cayenne Turbo. Many replies said he should get TWO cars, i.e. a monster pickup to carry his bike in, plus a 'real' Porsche. I managed to stay out of it. Just as well, as the only reply I could think of was FOAD.

flattythehurdler

If they sign contador, and get him truly cycling clean, he'll win f@ck all.

iainf72

flattythehurdler wrote:

If they sign contador, and get him truly cycling clean, he'll win f@ck all.

So if they did sign him and he carried on winning, then what?

Kléber

OK, who will sign Contador? It's possible he's priced himself out of the market. With so many question marks hanging over him and a big price tag, he could offer more risk than return.

Still, now that Mayo's been axed from Saunier Duval...

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

OK, who will sign Contador? It's possible he's priced himself out of the market. With so many question marks hanging over him and a big price tag, he could offer more risk than return.

Still, now that Mayo's been axed from Saunier Duval...

Can he prove himself innocent though? Like, is there actually a way?

Kléber

He could start taking open questions to start with, instead of holding press conferences where he reads a statement and then issues a threat to sue. If the guy was relaxed and open to questions, it would help.

He could tell us about Liberty Seguros. Did his room mates ever talk about doping? Did he ever see anything suspicious? He could give us his views on doping. What does he think of Iban Mayo? Or his former team mates Jaksche and Heras. What does he think of Manolo Saiz and his relationship with with Dr Fuentes.

He could explain his training programmes, how does he climb at a VAM of 1800, a rate equal to Pantani, Basso or Armstrong? Who trains him? He could submit himself to a lab for testing, so we can learn more about his physiology. He could even pay an independent expert to measure his blood and hormones every week and to publish the data on the internet.

All stunts but a lot better than the current policy of silence.

RichN95.

Or, more simply, he could ask for this DNA to be tested against the blood bag marked AC. If there's no match, this all goes away.

drenkrom

But he did offer his DNA, right? That has to be a proof of his innocence.

Oh, wait... I seem to remember another Disco rider offering DNA... hmmm... his name was... yeah! his name was Basso!

RichN95.

drenkrom wrote:

But he did offer his DNA, right? That has to be a proof of his innocence.

Oh, wait... I seem to remember another Disco rider offering DNA... hmmm... his name was... yeah! his name was Basso!

He offered it in a "if they come and ask for (with a court order) it I'll supply it" sort of way, but no-one's coming to ask. What I mean is taking the initiative and asking himself for it to be tested.

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

Or, more simply, he could ask for this DNA to be tested against the blood bag marked AC. If there's no match, this all goes away.

Are there any blood bags marked AC?

I thought AC appeared in conjunction with drug usage?

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Or, more simply, he could ask for this DNA to be tested against the blood bag marked AC. If there's no match, this all goes away.

Are there any blood bags marked AC?

I thought AC appeared in conjunction with drug usage?

My mistake - there's an AC in the documentation - not on the bags. Even so, if he's innocent, he should take the initiative.

flattythehurdler

iainf72 wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

If they sign contador, and get him truly cycling clean, he'll win f@ck all.

So if they did sign him and he carried on winning, then what?

Therein lies the rub

gsd

Umm...

RichN95 wrote:

Even so, if he's innocent, he should take the initiative.

and

iain72 wrote:

Can he prove himself innocent though? Like, is there actually a way?

I know there's a lot of suspicion and a lot of guilty riders out there, but what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

iainf72

flattythehurdler wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

If they sign contador, and get him truly cycling clean, he'll win f@ck all.

So if they did sign him and he carried on winning, then what?

Therein lies the rub

So if he went to T-Mobile and continued winning, he'd still be a dirty doper, yeah?

RichN95.

My point is, if he went down to Madrid and said to the Guarda - here's my DNA, do what you want with it - that would clear him of any current accusations in my mind (unless the Guarda made a match) - if I was in his position (and clean) I couldn't get me to Madrid fast enough.

Eurostar

Until he volunteers his DNA I'll assume he's guilty. As you say, why not prove his innocence? It's so bleedin obvious really. No wonder Bruyneel's been so evasive.

I'm so pleased that Tailwind's folded up. Can't stop celebrating :P . It will all be complete when LA is exposed. :twisted:

knedlicky

Eurostar wrote:

I'm so pleased that Tailwind's folded up. Can't stop celebrating :P . It will all be complete when LA is exposed. :twisted:

Cheers, Eurostar!

method

iainf72 wrote:

Ahhh, that's if you believe the hype.

I think they're more concerned with not getting caught.

They seem happy enough to hire Hincapie and you'd have to say there are questions?

Wim van Rossum had been convinced by them....

iainf72

Eurostar wrote:

Until he volunteers his DNA I'll assume he's guilty. As you say, why not prove his innocence? It's so bleedin obvious really. No wonder Bruyneel's been so evasive.

I'm so pleased that Tailwind's folded up. Can't stop celebrating :P . It will all be complete when LA is exposed. :twisted:

Yeah, result! The team with the winner of the TdF couldn't get a new sponsor and this bodes well for the sport in general. Double woot, American money is pulling out. Lets hope soon we only get 1 hour of Tour highlights on the TV at the end of the race too and no other cycling.

BTW - Armstrong has retired, perhaps you should move on? What exactly would his "exposing" achieve? Perhaps dealing with the pressing problems the sport is currently facing might be a better idea, eh?

And are there any blood bags attributed to AC? I've not seen mention of it, only the docs Franke got which indicate AC might have used a couple of drugs. The truth of the matter is to some people on this forum AC wil be guilty regardless of what he does.

iainf72

method wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Ahhh, that's if you believe the hype.

I think they're more concerned with not getting caught.

They seem happy enough to hire Hincapie and you'd have to say there are questions?

Wim van Rossum had been convinced by them....

Wim has retired because of the state of the sport.

Not sure he was convinced, he was taking a wait and see attitude.

I'm of the opinion that there is a lot of spin and shadowy behaviour from T-Mobile that makes me beleive they're not on the level.