These testosterone postives...

Kléber

I'm sure some Harley Street doctors would help too. Money talks.

I'd heard the story about Massimilliano Testa. Simplistically, if really cared about the riders' health, he'd shop them so that the UCI could catch them red-handed. Assuming the UCI could actually do something competent. But the world isn't that simple and Testa's actions are understandable and perhaps sympathetic. The guy probably lost "preparation" contracts to other, less reputable doctors.

Talking of which, EPO isn't perhaps as harmless as orange juice by the way, see the headline across the middle of the page here: http://www.usc.edu/hsc/info/pr/1volpdf/pdf03/934.pdf

RichN95.

Kléber wrote:

I'd heard the story about Massimilliano Testa. Simplistically, if really cared about the riders' health, he'd shop them so that the UCI could catch them red-handed. Assuming the UCI could actually do something competent. But the world isn't that simple and Testa's actions are understandable and perhaps sympathetic. The guy probably lost "preparation" contracts to other, less reputable doctors.

Surely, Doctor - Patient confidentiality would be the reason for not shopping them. He'd stand to lose his whole career, not just his job.

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Surely, Doctor - Patient confidentiality would be the reason for not shopping them. He'd stand to lose his whole career, not just his job.

That was my point a bit.

He can't shop you but he could give you advice to prevent you harming yourself.

Surely doctorly duty should be to help.

ridgerider

I have reported all the threads to their moderator...or am I missing something!

How did you find the site Iain? Just being in possession of the link should be enough for a 2 year suspension, regardless of whether you register.

iainf72

Ridgerider wrote:

I have reported all the threads to their moderator...or am I missing something!

How did you find the site Iain? Just being in possession of the link should be enough for a 2 year suspension, regardless of whether you register.

I got it from Titanium from the old C+ site. I'm sure some of you remember him

LangerDan

Kléber wrote:

Talking of which, EPO isn't perhaps as harmless as orange juice by the way, see the headline across the middle of the page here: http://www.usc.edu/hsc/info/pr/1volpdf/pdf03/934.pdf

A more recent Danish study has found similar results for patients that are reeiving EPO while on chemo / radiation therapy for throat cancers IIRC.. That, combined with the companies response to the study and an FDA requirement to incorporate a "Black-Box" warning on the packaging because of over prescribing of EPO to seriously anemic patients has seriously hurt Amgens sales of EPO in the last 6 months.

flattythehurdler

bennyhana22 wrote:

AndyGates wrote:

But when everyone does it, is it still cheating? The playing field is level, sort of, not doping would be like riding that old five-speed Peugeot.

Devil's advocate question: why shouldn't I use all the pharma I can afford to be the best I can be -- and why should you object to it if I'm not competing against you? Bitching about my doping is as irrelevant as my bitching about your flexitime job which lets you train long hours. Everyone has and takes the advantages they can.

You're right, Andy - why should anyone object and why shouldn't someone use if they can afford it? It's down to how you resolve those issues personally. I would like to think that all Pro bike dopers feel like Millar claims to have felt. Naively or not, I personally believe his claims that he genuinely felt his achievements and victories were hollow and essentially meaningless because they were won not by endeavour alone but by doping. and that's how I would feel. I 'race/compete' very rarely 'cause I've got three young kids and a busy job, but when I do I train for it very hard (i.e. out at 5.30a.m. and back when the kids are having breakfast so as not to lose time with them) because I want to do well. I could probably dope - I'm a doc, I could probably find someone who knows someone who knows...etc. But then getting a top 10% finish in the Etape or the Fred Whitton or whatever would mean exactly bugger all. It's SPORT, it's endeavour, it's getting reward from hard work. To me the Dark Side is just pointless. And as for being able to afford it - the flipside to that is the expensive bike issue: How often have you had a wry smile on your face when you fly up a climb past the £5000 Colnago on your Old faithful in the knowledge that actually It's not about the bike, it's about the legs - the ones built on ENDOGENOUS testosterone...

True but £5000 bikes are soooo sexy. Like my new litespeed which I'm going to order

mangaman

On the doctor question - being one myself - I wouldn't tell you to bugger off Iain (even though you are beating me in the PTP

Taking EPO is not afaik illegal in this country and even if it was it would be unethical for me to "shop you"

Obviously I treat lots of illegal drug takers and we don't ring the police or else they'd never come to the doctors again

It's actually increasingly common to have to ask young people with unusual sysmptoms whether they are on performance enhancing drugs (usually steroids) and quite often they are

I see my role as warning them of the dangers and telling them they may die if they continue. From then on it's their decision whether to carry on .

I don't think I can act as their moral guardian - as long as I've explained the risks

It's exactly the same with smoking / drinking

giant_man

What a ridiculous forum! :x Just shows how stupid some people are

Langenberg

Interesting post mangaman, guess one drug is not dissimilar to another in this sense.

Interestingly, the people on that forum struggle with a similar problem where there is a discussion if all the info re EPO should be given to newbies or only experienced 'users'.

What continues to amaze me (and I had looked at cuttingedgemuscle before as it was previously discussed on the C+ forum) that people actually get access to buying this stuff, cuttingedgemuscle seems to be linked to a company which sells a lot of the stuff that people are discussing on that forum, incl. hgh). There should be a way to stop all this!!

timoid.

Moray Gub wrote:

Dorian Gray wrote:

iainf72, could you link to the particular thread in which those people are wondering about the recent testosterone positives? I had a look but couldn't find that (no shortage of other unsavoury stuff there though!).

http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/ ... adid=18662


Here ya go scroll down a bit through that thread and you will find posters asking the question. Dont know about you but that site is bloody awful in fact its kinda depressing .

cheers
MG

Interesting. Seems you can't get a 24:1 ratio from rubbing in testogel. More likely an injection. Even when coming clean Sinkewitz is full of shit.

Genius link. Good old Titanium.

iainf72

Timoid. wrote:

Interesting. Seems you can't get a 24:1 ratio from rubbing in testogel. More likely an injection. Even when coming clean Sinkewitz is full of shoot.

Genius link. Good old Titanium.

Wait til I spout off my theory that Sinkewitz's positive was surpressed for a while.

Anyone in touch with Titanium? He knew all about doping because he was American and had raced in Italy. :P

bennyhana22

flattythehurdler wrote:

bennyhana22 wrote:

AndyGates wrote:

But when everyone does it, is it still cheating? The playing field is level, sort of, not doping would be like riding that old five-speed Peugeot.

Devil's advocate question: why shouldn't I use all the pharma I can afford to be the best I can be -- and why should you object to it if I'm not competing against you? Bitching about my doping is as irrelevant as my bitching about your flexitime job which lets you train long hours. Everyone has and takes the advantages they can.

You're right, Andy - why should anyone object and why shouldn't someone use if they can afford it? It's down to how you resolve those issues personally. I would like to think that all Pro bike dopers feel like Millar claims to have felt. Naively or not, I personally believe his claims that he genuinely felt his achievements and victories were hollow and essentially meaningless because they were won not by endeavour alone but by doping. and that's how I would feel. I 'race/compete' very rarely 'cause I've got three young kids and a busy job, but when I do I train for it very hard (i.e. out at 5.30a.m. and back when the kids are having breakfast so as not to lose time with them) because I want to do well. I could probably dope - I'm a doc, I could probably find someone who knows someone who knows...etc. But then getting a top 10% finish in the Etape or the Fred Whitton or whatever would mean exactly bugger all. It's SPORT, it's endeavour, it's getting reward from hard work. To me the Dark Side is just pointless. And as for being able to afford it - the flipside to that is the expensive bike issue: How often have you had a wry smile on your face when you fly up a climb past the £5000 Colnago on your Old faithful in the knowledge that actually It's not about the bike, it's about the legs - the ones built on ENDOGENOUS testosterone...

True but £5000 bikes are soooo sexy. Like my new litespeed which I'm going to order

I'll try to admire it flatty. In the brief moment available as I fly past on steel!

B

flattythehurdler

That'll be the spanish doctor. You should save your money for a new bike.

vermooten

mangaman wrote:

It's actually increasingly common to have to ask young people with unusual sysmptoms whether they are on performance enhancing drugs (usually steroids) and quite often they are

I see my role as warning them of the dangers and telling them they may die if they continue. From then on it's their decision whether to carry on .

Did you hear the Betsy Andreiu interview on Competitors Radio Show podcast? She was musing that Lance's cancer might have come from the PEDs she alledges that he owned up to taking. OK she's no expert, WTF does she know about cancer etc? But her comments relate to managman's post.

Andy

AndyGates

Not really: her comments just serve to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. It would be just as scientific to stand there tutting like my Nan and intoning "cheaters never prosper!" with a face like a weathered lemon.

flattythehurdler

We can see where you get your good looks.

AndyGates

I have good looks? Thank you darling!