what do I get for my £10 entry fee with bcf races ?

oldwelshman

Can some one explain why it cost £10 to enter vast majority of bcf races?
Last night I raced at Crytal Palace for the first time.
Arrived to find no toilets, no changing facilities and signing on is beneath a tree in the park !!!
For these facilities I had to pay £10 so I would like to know what I get for this £10.
Whilst I am at it, £10 also seems very excessive for track racing entry fee also !!
No wonder not many people race.

Mr Bumble

I think it is insurance....that and not wanting to faff around with change...

I must admit the amount I race has collapsed since being made redundant...just don't have the spare cash for it....

phil s

Insurance
Facility hire
Volunteers' costs
Race Numbers
Lapboard
Prize Money

oldwelshman

phil s wrote:

Insurance
Facility hire
Volunteers' costs
Race Numbers
Lapboard
Prize Money

Errr with a field of 50 riders making £500 I do not think a few plastic numbers and safety pins, and 10 wooden lap boards and park hire would cost this much and even then these are only purchased once so that leaves prize money (minimal) volunteers cpost and insurance?

How come the league of vets races cost a lot less with same cover then?

andyp

And people wonder why there are less and less volunteers coming forward to organise road races. :roll:

Oldwelshman you are in fact right and there is a small, but select, group of people in the UK who have joined the realms of the super rich due to their ability to fleece the poor, unsuspecting racing cyclists in this country by convincing them that paying £10 for an hour long event is value for money. Why I believe that Keith Butler, erstwhile organiser of the Surrey League, is this year holidaying on the yacht of his close friend, and fellow billionaire, Roman Abramovich.

Stephen Sorba

What happened, did you get dropped?
Stay in the pub and spend your £10 on beer, it's the perfect place for a good moan.

oldwelshman

Stephen Sorba wrote:

What happened, did you get dropped?
Stay in the pub and spend your £10 on beer, it's the perfect place for a good moan.

Errr nope, did not get dropped.
But the fact remains that if I wanted to race once midweek (short races) then track once and one weekend event thats £30 a week. In Hillingdon for instance they always have a full field of 80 add another 60 to 80 for 4ths and that's £1600 with prize money for first 3.
personally I reckon racing cyclists are not getting a good deal but you obviously don't agree.
Is it any wonder the majority of riders in UK do club 10's but not race?

andyp

oldwelshman wrote:

[Is it any wonder the majority of riders in UK do club 10's but not race?

I'd say that this due more to the fact that you can ride a 10 with any level of fitness whereas in the UK at least, you need to be very fit to finish a road race.

Whenever I'm out on my bike I see a lot of other cyclists, the majority of them riding bikes worth £2k+ and they all have nice clothing (Assos and Rapha mainly) so clearly there isn't a lack of money around. Quite why there is this begruding attitude to paying £10 for an hour long race mystifies me. I think it's great value for money and the races at Crystal Palace are well run and very friendly.

If you want an expensive sport then go and look at the cost of entering a triathlon. :shock:

oldwelshman

andyp wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

[Is it any wonder the majority of riders in UK do club 10's but not race?

I'd say that this due more to the fact that you can ride a 10 with any level of fitness whereas in the UK at least, you need to be very fit to finish a road race.

Whenever I'm out on my bike I see a lot of other cyclists, the majority of them riding bikes worth £2k+ and they all have nice clothing (Assos and Rapha mainly) so clearly there isn't a lack of money around. Quite why there is this begruding attitude to paying £10 for an hour long race mystifies me. I think it's great value for money and the races at Crystal Palace are well run and very friendly.

If you want an expensive sport then go and look at the cost of entering a triathlon. :shock:

Or enter a sportive , even more expensive
I am not moaning about the friendliness but for entry fee of £10 I would expect the asic of facilities that would allow me to have a crap before a race 8)
I was also worried about getting done for indecent exposure whilst changing in the car park whilst lots of mums and toddlers walking by !!!

mossycp

Why not ask the club you paid the £10 to where it goes? Or go to your own clubs AGM where you'll get given a copy of the accounts. That will tell you exactly where the money goes. If the club has excessive funds in it's accounts then ask why and what it's for.

I'm new to cycling clubs so don't know the workings of the governing bodies etc but from vast experience of football and badminton clubs I would guess that cycling works in a similar way. Your club will have to pay affiliation fees to the governing bodies, insurance fees, venue fees, upkeep of premises if they have any etc. The club then has to generate income to be able to pay for all that stuff so you'd generally set the fees for races etc. to cover all those costs. You don't necessarily set the fee to break even for that event as you have to even it out over the year. Some of the money that gets paid to the governing should get ploughed back into the grassroots of the sport, thus, your £10 entry fee actually goes toward paying for new facilities, coaches, information, websites, national races, etc... (look at the BC accounts for where it all goes).

Get involved in the club, then you'll know. I can assure you that very few clubs hold vast balances in their accounts!

Kléber

£10 isn't much but you can also race at the weekend and get a village hall, lead car and following vehicles for the same entry fee. I doubt anyone is getting rich, it's just not the way club cycling works. Maybe the Crystal Palace racing could attract a sponsor and that way bring down the cost, not everyone riding in London is a Raphista on a Colnago or Serotta.

oldwelshman

Kléber wrote:

£10 isn't much but you can also race at the weekend and get a village hall, lead car and following vehicles for the same entry fee. I doubt anyone is getting rich, it's just not the way club cycling works. Maybe the Crystal Palace racing could attract a sponsor and that way bring down the cost, not everyone riding in London is a Raphista on a Colnago or Serotta.

For an open road race where bike riders and lead cars, village halls with changing and toilet facilites, more marshalls etc i would expect to pay £10 for, but not so much the shorter closed circuit races.
I understand all the reasons for charging just not so much the amount.
for example the LVRA race at MKBOWL and Hillingdon using the exact same facilities but charge less.
I too have also participated in other sports to good level but find cycling the most expensive, I guess I am a tight bastard
Think I will fly to Italy via Ryan air and do Sportives, warmer, better roads, better views and probably same cost

Monty Dog

LVRC races by example cost £6 and commit to pay out 50% of the entry fees as prize money - usually a whopping £25 for a win! I expect the extra £4 for the BCF races goes toward the BC affiliation fees and the additional insurance. To give you some other examples, a local 10k running race charges £15 - that's for 40 minutes and as Andyp says, a triathlon will cost you £50 for a one-hour race, so bike racing isn't actually that expensive. I also think than many participants vastly under-estimate the effort required to organise an event and the importance of volunteers to make it happen. Sadly, many riders these days think that they don't need to join a club, pitch up at a race and then moan about the lack of organisation and facilities and selfishly never organise / marshall at any event. If you want facilities, the entry fees will increase and volunteers will want to be reimbursed too, so you can't have it both ways.

Big Tcp

Of your £10 entry fee, £3 goes to Britishcycling, probably another £2 goes towards the hire of the circuit, officials expenses, etc leaving about £5 per rider towards the prize fund.

I haven't run a road race recently but run a cyclo-cross annually. The venue hire costs me £100, judges expenses £50. If I get 80 riders that's £800 in entry fees but £264 of that goes straight to BC, another £100 to the league prize fund, £40 for U12's prizes leaving around £240 for prizes and a profit for me of zilch. I aim to break even and not make a profit. My event has no changing room, no toilets, signing on in the back of a car. Blame the provider of the facility, not the organiser of the race.

If you need a crap, have one before you leave home!

You should try promoting an event yourself, giving up hours of your time for no pay and then get moaned at by some of the ungrateful competitors!

oldwelshman

Big Tcp wrote:

Of your £10 entry fee, £3 goes to Britishcycling, probably another £2 goes towards the hire of the circuit, officials expenses, etc leaving about £5 per rider towards the prize fund.

I haven't run a road race recently but run a cyclo-cross annually. The venue hire costs me £100, judges expenses £50. If I get 80 riders that's £800 in entry fees but £264 of that goes straight to BC, another £100 to the league prize fund, £40 for U12's prizes leaving around £240 for prizes and a profit for me of zilch. I aim to break even and not make a profit. My event has no changing room, no toilets, signing on in the back of a car. Blame the provider of the facility, not the organiser of the race.

If you need a crap, have one before you leave home!

You should try promoting an event yourself, giving up hours of your time for no pay and then get moaned at by some of the ungrateful competitors!

Err I did have a crap before leaving home but I was working in London so thought I woud race there as I could not get home earlier.
I spent ages in traffic so had no chance before race thats why I mentioned facilities.
To be able to stage an event, the venue should have minimum facilities required including toilets and changing otherwise they cannot justify charging organiser so much.
By the way I have organised events in the past so dont need patronising and I gave up almost every weekend for 8 years coaching juniors free of charge (OK not cycling but still a commitment)
As I siad earlier it is nearly awlays £10 yet some events have better facilities so there should be a minimum.
Maybe the BCF should take less cut!!

Big Tcp

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so harsh and patronsing. my post was to give an idea of the costs involved in promoting an event. BC do take quite a big cut for, on the face of it, not much in return. however, insurance costs have gone up post 9/11 and i think this is the reason why they take so much.

Other organisations such as TLI/LVRC don't charge so much for insurance, but that may mean that the insurance isn't as good. I think with BC you are paying for peace of mind, knowing that if something goes wrong at the event, the riders and organiser are covered.

mossycp

I think you're complaining to the wrong people! If you have a problem with paying £10 for a race that doesn't provide the facilities you expect then tell the organiser or ask them why you aren't getting the facilities you expect. Or don't enter.

I don't know anything about Crystal Palace but I would hazard a guess that they would love to provide better facilities but need money to be able to build them. Guess where that money might come from?

As to why most BCF races cost £10, I guess it's a round figure that's easy to collect, easy to account and roughly covers the cost of the events. Some events may seem like a bargain for £10, some not. Most events have the same sort of costs so would work out at about £10 per rider to cover costs.Some venues have good facilities, some poor. Some venues have very dedicated volunteers that have put hours of work in behind the scenes to secure funding and provide better facilities, some do not. Some venues are inherently expensive to run, some aren't. Some venues can charge a lot because they are always booked up, some can't.

JimMoff

What does the insurance cover? I was knocked off at Hillingdon earlier this year. A few days in hospital, wrecked bike, wrecked kit, a week or so off work. I got nothing. Could I have claimed off the insurance? How is the BC insurance better than the LVRC?

Jim

Big Tcp

The insurance covers 3rd parties e.g. members of the public, not competitors. You can't claim against another competitor if you crash under BC insurance. If the orgainser was sued by a member of the public for damage or injury, then they and any competitor involved, would be covered by the insurance.

Crashes are part of racing and you have to accept them, unless you can prove that someone was negligent or maliciously caused a crash. Then you can take a private prosecution out against them. BC wouldn't support you though.

You don't know that BC is better than LVRC until both are tested in court. But cheaper insurance usually means less cover, more loopholes and get out clauses, etc.

JimMoff

BIG TCP Thanks for the explanation. I simply put it down to bike racing and had no intention of claiming, even if I could have claimed but was interested to see what the insurance was for.


Jim

andrewgturnbull

oldwelshman wrote:

Can some one explain why it cost £10 to enter vast majority of bcf races?
Last night I raced at Crytal Palace for the first time.
Arrived to find no toilets, no changing facilities and signing on is beneath a tree in the park !!!
For these facilities I had to pay £10 so I would like to know what I get for this £10.
Whilst I am at it, £10 also seems very excessive for track racing entry fee also !!
No wonder not many people race.

Hi there.

Excuse my geographical ignorance, but is Crystal Palace a closed-road circuit? If so, then a tenner sounds like a bargain!

Have you been involved in organising races yourself? If so you'd soon see where the money goes... and how little it stretches.

Cheers, Andy

Shavedlegs

I have raced in a lot of events and the facilities vary widely. I have to say the trees are about the only facility available at Crystal Palace, which is a shame, but I get to race in a Central London location mid week which is great.

I like racing and for the amount of enjoyment I get out of it £10 is a bargain, so I don't really care where the money goes, just pleased people are prepared to organise them. It's cheaper than the cinema or anything else I'd probably do instead.

oldwelshman

andrewgturnbull wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

Can some one explain why it cost £10 to enter vast majority of bcf races?
Last night I raced at Crytal Palace for the first time.
Arrived to find no toilets, no changing facilities and signing on is beneath a tree in the park !!!
For these facilities I had to pay £10 so I would like to know what I get for this £10.
Whilst I am at it, £10 also seems very excessive for track racing entry fee also !!
No wonder not many people race.

Hi there.

Excuse my geographical ignorance, but is Crystal Palace a closed-road circuit? If so, then a tenner sounds like a bargain!

Have you been involved in organising races yourself? If so you'd soon see where the money goes... and how little it stretches.

Cheers, Andy

Why is £10 a bargain/ Am I missing something here?
Have I been involved in organising races? No, but what difference does that make?
The point I am making is that if Crystal Palace are charging organiser so much to rent the venue then they should provide the required facilities!!!!

I suppose you enjoy stripping off to get changed in a public car park and piss in the trees?

Stephen Sorba

If you don't like it don't come and race, there are plenty enough who do. And that goes for track meetings at Herne Hill too where last weekend I was forced to spend a whole £12 to have Tony Gibb hurt me very very much! And their facilities have been condemned and boarded up! See you Tuesday?

PhilBixby

OWM, much of your complaint is about a specific event or series - as has been suggested, contact the organisers and complain. Most road races (I help organise my club RR) make very little for the organising club and absolutely nothing for the individuals, relying on hundreds of hours of volunteer time. I very much doubt costs are the main reason "so few people do road races" - and anyway, there have been full fields in most cat 3/4 races up around here this year.

There's an issue with BC as opposed to TLI or LVRC which is to do with supporting a much bigger infrastructure. Some of this - I assume - goes towards the support BC gives for developing new national talent, and sport at a national level, and I certainly don't begrudge that.

Phil B
Clifton CC York

SteveR_100Milers

so did you win or not david??

andrewgturnbull

oldwelshman wrote:

I suppose you enjoy stripping off to get changed in a public car park and wee-wee in the trees?

Hi there.

Read my sig line again.

I'm a triathlete, of course I enjoy stripping off in public!

Cheers, Andy

oldwelshman

andrewgturnbull wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

I suppose you enjoy stripping off to get changed in a public car park and wee-wee in the trees?

Hi there.

Read my sig line again.

I'm a triathlete, of course I enjoy stripping off in public!

Cheers, Andy

aha I see At least you have a sense of humour unlike stev sorba who seems to be a stress head

Steve 100. Nope, I did not win, I ballsed up the finish
It is a technical course and very tight so my plan was to ensure I was in front 6 during last 3 laps. Was looking ok then saw lap counter 6 so was moving back up to front and heard a bell Turns out the 6 laps was for e/1/2 not us
I also got eaten alive by some mosquetos hidng in the park trees, my legs been itching ever since

oldwelshman

Stephen Sorba wrote:

If you don't like it don't come and race, there are plenty enough who do. And that goes for track meetings at Herne Hill too where last weekend I was forced to spend a whole £12 to have Tony Gibb hurt me very very much! And their facilities have been condemned and boarded up! See you Tuesday?

Won't see me this tuesday as I am working in USA and not Croydon
Next time I am working in Croydon I will race there. I always take my bike when working away and see if there are races to ride.
next time i will ensure I take a crap before I leave Croydon and get changed there also 8)

Stephen Sorba

oldwelshman wrote:

Stephen Sorba wrote:

If you don't like it don't come and race, there are plenty enough who do. And that goes for track meetings at Herne Hill too where last weekend I was forced to spend a whole £12 to have Tony Gibb hurt me very very much! And their facilities have been condemned and boarded up! See you Tuesday?

Won't see me this tuesday as I am working in USA and not Croydon
Next time I am working in Croydon I will race there. I always take my bike when working away and see if there are races to ride.
next time i will ensure I take a crap before I leave Croydon and get changed there also 8)

Well I hope you're not going with Easyjet I hear their facilities are rubbish, the queues for signing on endless, and you'll have to take your own sandwiches!

blackhands

If you don't want to pay £10 then don't race.

As a commissaire I hope that race organisers put prices up so that I geta bigger contribution to my expenses - last year I commissaired 8 races and got £30 my actual expenses were more like £200. The reason I've given up this year is because I'm fed up with moaning no hopers with £4,000 bikes who begrudge paying the proper costs to race and rely on the goodwill of officials for cheap sport.