Ribble vs. Condor any difference except 50% price premium?

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  • Special K
    Special K Posts: 449
    I've checked the company returns to Companies house and this debate is answered there quite eloquently: somebody is in the money, guess who?
    "There are holes in the sky,
    Where the rain gets in.
    But they're ever so small
    That's why rain is thin. " Spike Milligan
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Ribble

    and Condor

    I think Condor have/are missing a chance to expand but their call. They're never going to be an Evans but have let all sorts of others come in
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    although Condor have now moved away from using the same carbon frames as other brands and are having their carbon frames hand built to their geometry . They only have one monocoque bike left in the range this season that is available elsewhere.
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    that's interesting ... are their other carbon bikes all lugged?
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    wildmoustache wrote:
    that's interesting ... are their other carbon bikes all lugged?

    they're 'hand wrapped' with pieces of carbon to join the tubes together. I think this is how Parlee do some of their frames too
  • Beardy10
    Beardy10 Posts: 115
    Special K wrote:
    I've checked the company returns to Companies house and this debate is answered there quite eloquently: somebody is in the money, guess who?

    How much are Condor in the money by ?
  • 4candles
    4candles Posts: 240
    I've owned both Ribble and Condor...

    lets just say i'm won't bother with Ribble anymore as it didn't last 2 years, and the extra cost of the Condor was well worth it in it's quality and their service...

    I know Condors do a lot of R&D with their bike frames and i doubt that they are stickered up off the shelf items like Dolan or Ribble...

    Anyway i'm off to get my Diamante tomorrow so there...
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    Have you read the rest of this thread, fork handles? The frames being discussed earlier in this thread were EXACTLY the same as ones being sold by Ribble and Dolan. Then again I'm sure there are some on here who can feel the difference between two frames which differ only in the stickers (and how much they've paid for them) :roll:
  • Doobz
    Doobz Posts: 2,800
    Doesnt Dolan only use the "Scuro HCR Carbon Frame"? I didnt realise he used the Nero Corsa also..

    Either way I have a Nero Corsa from ribble and its all I need - Climbs like a dream and is very stiff and light. I would have been alot happier if ribble did not go overboard on the "ribble graphics" tho. At the end of the day I dont care that much what it looks like - its how its ridden that counts :)
    cartoon.jpg
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    aracer wrote:
    Have you read the rest of this thread, fork handles? The frames being discussed earlier in this thread were EXACTLY the same as ones being sold by Ribble and Dolan. Then again I'm sure there are some on here who can feel the difference between two frames which differ only in the stickers (and how much they've paid for them) :roll:

    Condor now to seem to have realised that this was not the best way to go. Their team didn't like the Scuro and replaced that and others with handbuilts this year. They have intimated that they are going to do the same with the last remaining monocoque in the range if they can hit the price point.
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    You sure it's not anything to do with marketing, and the fact that with frames the same as others sell for less they weren't able to mark up as much as they'd like?
  • cannonfodder
    cannonfodder Posts: 183
    Quite possibly. I only read that the team thought that the Scuro was too flexible for some races.

    I think the hand wrapping process (or most other tube joining process when compared with monocoques) is quite expensive, and ultimately the mark up is larger, although ultimately more flexible in choosing the geometry. The only other company I've heard do this is Parlee.
  • Beardy10
    Beardy10 Posts: 115
    4candles wrote:

    Anyway i'm off to get my Diamante tomorrow so there...

    Oooohhh nice bike! Post some pics when you get it.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    cannonfodder wrote:
    wildmoustache wrote:
    that's interesting ... are their other carbon bikes all lugged?

    they're 'hand wrapped' with pieces of carbon to join the tubes together. I think this is how Parlee do some of their frames too

    I hope you're not gonna start comparing a Condor to a Parlee frame ........
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    Why, do Parlee frames have extra magic which Condor couldn't possibly know how to put in their frames? So in order of ascending snob value, is it something like:

    Ribble
    .
    Dolan
    .
    Condor
    .
    Parlee

    Please fill in the gaps chaps - I guess Cervelo is somewhere between Condor and Parlee, and Colnago being Italian may trump the lot.
  • acorn_user
    acorn_user Posts: 1,137
    Wrapped tubes and lugged carbon have been done for ages. Moncoques are more common now though because they are simpler for mass production. Look are a prominent lugged frame user.
    Here is an example of a wrapped frame. It's also a work of art.
    http://www.tommasini.it/telai/velocista.html
    So you can compare Condor to Parlee after all. Or Crumpton or Ruegamer if that is the name of the game :)
  • chip42
    chip42 Posts: 145
    Check out Bespoke Cycles and go to the Parlee section and then Behind the Scenes to get some idea of what goes into a frames construction.

    Andy
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    acorn_user wrote:
    Wrapped tubes and lugged carbon have been done for ages. Moncoques are more common now though because they are simpler for mass production. Look are a prominent lugged frame user.
    Here is an example of a wrapped frame. It's also a work of art.
    http://www.tommasini.it/telai/velocista.html
    So you can compare Condor to Parlee after all. Or Crumpton or Ruegamer if that is the name of the game :)
    Absolute tosh! you cannot compare a condor frame to a Parlee or a Crumpton. the manufacturing methods and quality control are going to be completely different for start. And anyway Parlee frames are lugged, not monocoque.
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    I've ordered a Barracchia with 105 triple and Fulcrum 7 wheelset from Condor and it cost me £14 more than buying the Scuro from Ribble with the same finishing. And that may be accounted for by the choice of saddle, seatpost and stem (which I cannot recall).

    Not much of a difference after all...
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    liversedge wrote:
    I've ordered a Barracchia with 105 triple and Fulcrum 7 wheelset from Condor and it cost me £14 more than buying the Scuro from Ribble with the same finishing. And that may be accounted for by the choice of saddle, seatpost and stem (which I cannot recall).

    Not much of a difference after all...

    The Scuro is a higher level frame though.
    I like bikes...

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  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    giant mancp wrote:
    Absolute tosh! you cannot compare a condor frame to a Parlee or a Crumpton. the manufacturing methods and quality control are going to be completely different for start. And anyway Parlee frames are lugged, not monocoque.
    Please explain how Parlee make a lugged / carbaon wrapped joint frame, and how that is different / superior to how anybody else does it. I'm also interested in your inside knowledge on the quality control at Parlee and Condor.

    Or do you just have a Parlee frame and don't want to admit you might have paid a lot of money for something which is in reality no better than a much cheaper alternative?
  • acorn_user
    acorn_user Posts: 1,137
    giant mancp wrote:
    Absolute tosh! you cannot compare a condor frame to a Parlee or a Crumpton. the manufacturing methods and quality control are going to be completely different for start. And anyway Parlee frames are lugged, not monocoque.[/i]

    I did not make any judgements as to who has the best frame, or even which method is best. I'm just saying that bike frames are bike frames, and we can and should compare and contrast them all. As the Condor Leggero seems to be a wrapped frame, is it not comparable?

    Anyway, this is not the place for this. We might as well argue about whether lugs or tig welding are better for steel frames....
  • chip42
    chip42 Posts: 145
    I have had a Parlee and now I have a Condor Scuro(don't ask) the Parlee's construction was absolutely first class and the ride was great.I think the Parlee Z3-c now retails for something like £3000 and the Scuro can be had for about £850,I would have to say that as far as I am concerned the Parlee was good but not sure it's nearly four times as good.
    You are paying for the privelege of a small manufacturer , the cachet of the name and fantastic attention to detail that is just not present on the Condor,not to say there is anything wrong with the Condor, it's just a different thing...

    Andy
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    There's been a big catch-up in recent years in terms of carbon frame know-how - there are now sufficient volumes to justify the investment in tooling and research to make a high volume frame of pretty good quality for reasonable money - if Airbus trust the Taiwanese with bits for the A380 we should be happy with the quality for our bike frames. That said - most of the alleged 'best' carbon frames all feature lugged construction e.g. Parlee, Colnago, Look, Time. I'm seriously considering changing my carbon frame - a 'wrapped' Battaglin because it's so darn stiff and uncomfortable - having ridden my titanium Colnago for 5 hours at the weekend and not come home with a sore back.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • keydon
    keydon Posts: 144
    A Condom can only be used once!!

    With a Ribble you'll get a better ride every day!!

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