Motorbike or bicycle - which makes you more vulnerarable?

BentMikey

Not for motorcycles, but in London, for cyclists, most deaths and serious injuries come from doorings and HGVs. Both can easily be predicted and avoided by careful experienced cyclists.

Eurostar

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one. Because my belief is that even a highly trained cyclist is more vulnerable to a dooring or an HGV mashup than a highly trained motorcyclist is to his bete noire, a car pulling out in front of him. In other words, skill and training can protect you more effectively on a motorbike than on a bicycle.

And when you have an accident, armoured motorcycle clothing does an amazing job. I had a head on collision with a new car and ruined the bonnet with my kneecap. But thanks to the knee armour I got away with a minor bruise. I'm positive that an awful lot of serious injuries to motorcyclists could be avoided just by wearing proper kit. I'm not sure about the deaths, because since the helmet law came in the leading cause of death has been chest injuries - and hardly anybody wears chest armour unless they're racing off road.

On a bicycle, even a low speed dooring can leave you with a split kneecap. You don't see many cyclists wearing knee protectors. (Perhaps you do when you';re skating?)

And by the way, I think that going by the stories one hears in forums, you are somewhat atypical in not having car drivers pull out in front of you deliberately!

I can't see a way to make cycling in London acceptably safe (for me) without slowing right down, or hogging the middle of the road at 20 mph and enraging drivers who want to overtake. Neither strategy sounds like fun. On a motorbike I can charge up the middle of the road at speed, which is great fun and usually the fastest way to get around London. If a car does pull out in front of me - which is rare, because I'm in the middle of the road with my headlight on - I know I can brake well enough to either miss him or shed sufficient speed for my leathers to save me from serious injury.

The braking bit of the equation is an important one - hardly any motorcyclists are any good at emergency stops and when a car pulls out in front of them, they freeze. You don't learn how to achieve the shortest possible braking distance without deliberately locking up the front wheel, and then practicing it fairly frequently. Most people never do it, except in mid-accident. You can always buy ABS, but it's still quite rare. I don't have it on my current bike.

BentMikey

That doesn't add up, Nick:

Doorings are incredibly easy to avoid - just don't ride there. And don't forget, motorcyclists are just as vulnerable to doorings as cyclists are. It's much the same for left turning HGVs. They are easy to avoid - either don't filter up next to them, or be alert for the left hook.

On the other hand, it's much harder to avoid cars pulling out in front of you, because you're exposed to that risk at a large proportion of junctions every time you ride. What's more, because of a motorcyclist's much higher speed past many junctions, these incidents are much harder to avoid than for a slower cyclist. The higher speed results in much more serious consequences for the motorcyclist, as well as making the crash more likely in the first place. I don't understand where you get that cars never pull out in front of me on my bicycle?

As for protective gear, I think you have a point there that the gear will protect from minor injuries. I wouldn't expect it to do much for serious injuries though, and injuries are much more likely to be very severe with the higher top speeds of motorcyclists.

Having your headlight on is more likely to result in a crash than having it off, funnily enough. I was surprised to find that out too. ABS will normally make stopping distances longer, not shorter.

Eurostar

There is so much there that i disagree with that I haven't the energy to reply! Let's leave it at that, and do our best to stay safe.

tiny_pens

So the consensus is that someone who has completed (usually about 20-25) hours of mandatory training on how to ride safely and properly control their vehicle are going to be more vulnerable are they? Interesting.....

tiny Pens

BentMikey

No, you need to be comparing danger of the mode of transport since that was the original question, not the experience of the riders. Rider experience/training can have excellent effects for both cyclists and motorcyclists.

Regardless of that, you're still four times more likely to die riding a motorbike, per mile. Since motorcycles would tend to be driven many more miles than bicycles, that means an even higher risk for motorcycles than the stats would show.

BentMikey

If cycling is supposedly more dangerous than riding a motorcycle, then how do you lot explain the often-repeated claim that cyclists on average as fit as a person 10 years younger, and live 2 years longer than the norm?

Wynne G Oldman

It's really wierd. I feel much safer on a motorcycle, because I can keep up with the flow of traffic, yet I know that motorcycles are far more dangerous than cycles, because you are going to get hurt a lot more in an accident, because of the speed you are travelling at. I think that you're far more likely to be killed, having an accident at 70mph on the motorway, than say 15mph on the road, regardless of who is to blame.

markinengland

Personally I feel more vulnerable on a motorbike but think I am less likley to be seriously injured on a bicycle. My only accodents have been when people do sudden stupid unforeseeable things in front or across you. On a bicycle at least you are going slower so your injuries are likley to be less serious. But there again i am wearing much less protective stuff!
Can i work from home?

Ed 81

I think the problem is with the question.
What makes you feel more vunerable to what? Injury or the risk of an accident?

I feel that the chances of having an accident on my motorcycle are geater.

I feel if I were to have an accident, that my motorcycle gear would give me a level of protection that i would not recieve on my pushbike.

Its a tough question to answer but to me the motorcycle makes me feel most vunerable as I am an inexperienced rider.

BentMikey

I had a classic incident on the way back from work yesterday. Chap in a large 4x4 pickup truck pulls up at a junction with my road, I have priority. I'm watching his head, he does a very brief look to his left, and I think a) that was too fast, and b) I couldn't see his eyes which were hidden by the A-frame pillar, so he couldn't see me. He then pulls out, which I'd thus predicted easily.

My response? Covering the brakes, I gave him a blast on the 2 litre AirZound. He stops, I carry on. I could have not beeped him, and just slowed down enough, but then he wouldn't have learnt the lesson of looking properly. I reckon he would have missed seeing a Honda Goldwing, the vehicle pillar was so thick and his glance so quick.

Unfortunately the lesson was probably diluted somewhat, as I was on the recumbent, giving him an easy out for blaming me for riding such a low bike. Rubbish of course, because I get seen and noticed far far more on the recumbent than on the upright.

Anyway, my point for this topic was that I'd have been in much more trouble on a motorbike, because I wouldn't have had the time to judge the situation or correct for his mistake, and I'd have had the extra speed that would have at least resulted in a crash, and perhaps with injuries.

reefman

I have been a motorcyclist for 23 years and a commuter to work on a cycle for longer if you include cycling 8 miles return to school as a nipper.

Although a motorcycle is dangerous because of the death inducing speeds.
My personal experience is that I have had closer shaves on a cycle.

I work a mixture of days 0700-1600 and lates 1500-0001.

I prefer cycling on my late shifts as I do not function too well in the morning.
My 16 mile round trip is mainly rural A32 from Fareham to Droxford.

During the day I have white van man and trailer trying to overtake nearly taking me out.
At Night I rarely see a car but it only takes one p$%s head to take you out.Tonight Some T**t in a red Vauxhall cavalier threw a bottle at me as I was cycling home at 00:15 hours.Luckily it missed.
Well mate I have your registration number and we wil meet,I will make sure of it.

Reefman.