Geraint Thomas - stay or go?

afx237vi
afx237vi Posts: 12,630
edited July 2007 in Pro race
He finished 2 minutes behind the peloton on today's stage, which looked like a fairly easy day for the main pack. He may have done some work for Hunter in the final few km, but is it time for him to go now?

He's done 10 days, experienced three days in the high mountains, and from the interviews I've seen he sounds pretty exhausted.
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Comments

  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Stay until tomorrow when Robbie wins a stage :P

    He's done well - And he video diary is quite good too.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • I'd like him to stay through to Paris.

    Plus, his video diaries remind me of someone whos given a camera to a 10 year old at a wedding :lol:
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

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  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,048
    I think Barloworld's management will have failed if he's still in the race after the weekend. Ideally they should pull him after tomorrow's stage as that is probably the last one where he'll be any use to Hunter in a bunch sprint.

    He's 21 and there is no way he should stay in the race until Paris - that could ruin his career. Look at Adrian Timmis in 1987 if you want an example why.
  • jibi
    jibi Posts: 857
    Let him have his head tomorrow
    Tell him to go with a break, and just enjoy his last day in the tour
    He has much to learn, and I hope he does, we need all the Brits we can find

    what a baptism though poor lad.

    george
  • lloyd_bower
    lloyd_bower Posts: 664
    andyp wrote:
    I think Barloworld's management will have failed if he's still in the race after the weekend. Ideally they should pull him after tomorrow's stage as that is probably the last one where he'll be any use to Hunter in a bunch sprint.

    He's 21 and there is no way he should stay in the race until Paris - that could ruin his career. Look at Adrian Timmis in 1987 if you want an example why.

    Agree Adrian Timmis had the potential for a promising road race career, but the tour virtually finished him. He was never the same again, and quit part way through the next season
  • Moose11
    Moose11 Posts: 235
    I think he should ride on.. Let them eliminate you!! So long as he feels he can hack it I hope he continues on.
  • farrell
    farrell Posts: 1,323
    how do you know he didn't have a mechanical problem?......

    What a ridiculous question.
  • Moose11
    Moose11 Posts: 235
    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
    Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
    And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!



    I hope he keeps on keepin on
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    farrell wrote:
    how do you know he didn't have a mechanical problem?......

    What a ridiculous question.

    The fact that he finished with three other riders suggest to me that he didn't have a mechanical, although I don't know for sure.

    And why is it a ridiculous question? Some people think he shouldn't have been put in the Tour at all at his age.
  • Difficult decision to make. Was there ever a plan to withdraw him at a specific point/trigger (e.g. number of stages or time lost etc) Unless there was a pre-planned withdrawal it may be hard mentally for him to just be taken out, although leaving him in until he collapses would potentially disastrous. Cav always knew he was going to be withdrawn before the mountain stages.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,129
    While there's the arguement that no 21 year old should do the Tour (although Andy Schlek did the Giro OK), his video diaries seem to show him in good shape and good spirits. If he can finish then he may think "If I can do that then I can do anything".

    I don't know much about Timmis, but I dare say that Geraint is of a stronger pedigree (I really believe he'll become a Classics contender)

    But, if he comes in outside the peloton in the next couple of days, then he should probably drop out. But, I bet you'll see him up working for Hunter at the end tomorrow.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    andyp wrote:
    I think Barloworld's management will have failed if he's still in the race after the weekend. Ideally they should pull him after tomorrow's stage as that is probably the last one where he'll be any use to Hunter in a bunch sprint.

    He's 21 and there is no way he should stay in the race until Paris - that could ruin his career. Look at Adrian Timmis in 1987 if you want an example why.

    Agree Adrian Timmis had the potential for a promising road race career, but the tour virtually finished him. He was never the same again, and quit part way through the next season

    Timmis got burned out for sure. But he did 88,89 with Z I remember..then came back to the UK in 90. I read that Robert Millar said that after completing the 1987 TDF he could still feel the fatigue of it waking up in mornings in November-describes the fatigue of grand tour racing as akin to having a mild influenza all the time. So, there you go, spot analysis of someone who did it. So indeed, the damage/rebuilding process from a grand tour is something so far beyond what's healthy or normal, pulling Thomas out would be best or he will end with no career in a few years. Timmis didn't just get round, he was ahead of Indurain on GC in 87, had won stage of the Midi Libre in 87 pre TDF-a guy who was really going somewhere and unerachieved as a result of TDF fatigue
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Definitely pull the kid out pre-pyrenees. Let him have his head today and then call it quits.

    He's got what benefit there is to be had for such a young rider.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • jimmythecuckoo
    jimmythecuckoo Posts: 4,712
    I think he should pull out and get a bit of rest!
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Devil's advocate but Roche reckoned he should ride the whole tour but be told just to try and conserve energy rather than going for it.

    Personally I think I'd pull him out before the Pyrenees - if that's how you spell it - play it safe.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,048
    Yeah but Roche is a bit of a twat these days is he not? He's very quick to criticise riders for not attacking and seems to have forgotten how hard the sport is.

    I still think asking a 21 year neo-pro to start the Tour is daft (although I can understand why they did it this year, what with the London start). Keeping him in into the third week may have a negative impact on his future career so they should pull him out either today or tomorrow in my opinion.
  • andyp wrote:
    Yeah but Roche is a bit of a twat these days is he not? He's very quick to criticise riders for not attacking and seems to have forgotten how hard the sport is.
    I still think asking a 21 year neo-pro to start the Tour is daft (although I can understand why they did it this year, what with the London start). Keeping him in into the third week may have a negative impact on his future career so they should pull him out either today or tomorrow in my opinion.

    That's if he was actually aware of it at the time.....
  • aarw
    aarw Posts: 448
    andyp wrote:
    Yeah but Roche is a bit of a twat these days is he not? He's very quick to criticise riders for not attacking and seems to have forgotten how hard the sport is.
    I still think asking a 21 year neo-pro to start the Tour is daft (although I can understand why they did it this year, what with the London start). Keeping him in into the third week may have a negative impact on his future career so they should pull him out either today or tomorrow in my opinion.

    That's if he was actually aware of it at the time.....

    neither Roche or Kelly knew when to quit, or put another way they knew never to quit... very few put more effort in, certainly when looking at the riders of today.

    When refering to a cyclist who had collapsed after a race a few years back Kelly was asked if he ever collapsed or felt like we has on the verge of after any of his races. His answer was short and simple: Every time. He wasn't joking...
  • PeteinSQ
    PeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    He apparently suffered in the heat yesterday and was quoted by the Guardian as saying that if he has another day like yesterday he won't make it to Paris:

    "The first 70km was terrible," he said. "If I have another day like this I don't think I'll make it [to Paris]."
    <a><img></a>
  • skut
    skut Posts: 371
    aarw wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Yeah but Roche is a bit of a twat these days is he not? He's very quick to criticise riders for not attacking and seems to have forgotten how hard the sport is.
    I still think asking a 21 year neo-pro to start the Tour is daft (although I can understand why they did it this year, what with the London start). Keeping him in into the third week may have a negative impact on his future career so they should pull him out either today or tomorrow in my opinion.

    That's if he was actually aware of it at the time.....

    neither Roche or Kelly knew when to quit, or put another way they knew never to quit... very few put more effort in, certainly when looking at the riders of today.

    When refering to a cyclist who had collapsed after a race a few years back Kelly was asked if he ever collapsed or felt like we has on the verge of after any of his races. His answer was short and simple: Every time. He wasn't joking...

    There's a good bit in Kimmage's book where Kelly basically says the same thing after they have a sauna together.
  • Richrd2205
    Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    According to Eurosport, the plan is for Thomas to finish the race. Apparently, he's in contact with his coach from Team GB & this discussion on the programme appeared to conclude that it was a good thing. Hopefully, it doesn't have a negative effect on his future!
  • weyayeman
    weyayeman Posts: 1,141
    He should be ok till the 14th stage.
    How son yee divent need gaan doon the Pit,coz thas plenty coal in the coal hoose
  • aarw wrote:
    andyp wrote:
    Yeah but Roche is a bit of a twat these days is he not? He's very quick to criticise riders for not attacking and seems to have forgotten how hard the sport is.
    I still think asking a 21 year neo-pro to start the Tour is daft (although I can understand why they did it this year, what with the London start). Keeping him in into the third week may have a negative impact on his future career so they should pull him out either today or tomorrow in my opinion.

    That's if he was actually aware of it at the time.....

    neither Roche or Kelly knew when to quit, or put another way they knew never to quit... very few put more effort in, certainly when looking at the riders of today.

    When refering to a cyclist who had collapsed after a race a few years back Kelly was asked if he ever collapsed or felt like we has on the verge of after any of his races. His answer was short and simple: Every time. He wasn't joking...

    kelly, agree maybe. Roche, I wasn't being complimentary (should be an irony icon). When the pain is "numbed" then you don't feel the effects of the effort :wink:
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    The danger is now the green jersey might be a possibility - so with something to play for they might be less likely to let him pack even if it's in his best interests.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Thomas was 19th in that stage that just ended, so he's doing good work for Hunter.
  • He doesnt look sh*gged out so maybe......who knows, I would take it day by day.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,129
    He's a hard as nails Cardiff boy, not some London softie - he'll be fine.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Fair play, Richn95, but he's from Whitchurch. He's no Splott or Ely boy.

    Cars don\'t kill people.
    Motorists do.
  • Ratkilla
    Ratkilla Posts: 230
    If you're good enough your old enough. There's far too much blighty whingeing about pulling riders out before this ... that ... the next big effing hurdle.
    To protect them from what? Gaining experience? Actually completing a Tour?!
    Heaven forfend that a young Brit may arrive on the Champs Elysee next Sunday!
    Indeed, any Brit that arrives on the Champs next week must be doomed to failure for having completed the biggest race in the World?!
    I liked Adrian Timmis.Great rider. But I don't think that one Tour ride destroyed his career.
    Plus the fact that ANC's Tour didn't do much harm to Malcolm Elliot's subsequent career.Excellent palmares for a Brit.
    As I said if you're good enough you're old enough.
    It didn't harm Eddy.
  • murcof
    murcof Posts: 30
    52nd place in today's tt was pretty impressive - only 40 seconds behind Valverde who had every reason to do a good one. That's a brilliant placing, the Alps haven't battered him as much as I thought they would.