Cyclists always the villain!?

Random Vince

Porgy wrote:

I will speak out against cyclists who break the law once the slightly more dangerous motorists who break the law are being dealt with satisfactorily.

fraid it doesnt work like that,

got to sort things out in our own ranks before we can really complain about other people.

Random Vince

perhaps traffic lights with advanced cycle lanes should have a bike phase to allow bikes to turn right accross traffic and set off before cars set off

it'd only need to be a short bit to allow us to start moving.

however you can guarentee car drivers would start setting off during it.

ddraver

thats a damn fine idea tbh....in a way (i dunno haw traffic lights are programmed but it would be cheaper than replacing the whole unit) all it would have to be is a longer amber light.....but as you say...drivers would pull off at the amber/cycle green light

Porgy

Random Vince wrote:

Porgy wrote:

I will speak out against cyclists who break the law once the slightly more dangerous motorists who break the law are being dealt with satisfactorily.

fraid it doesnt work like that,

got to sort things out in our own ranks before we can really complain about other people.

What's my own ranks? :?:

I drive - I walk - I cycle. My own ranks are human beings. Those who commit the most serious traffic crimes are motorists because they effectively drive a lethal weapon.

So - contrary to your view - it does work like that

Do you think pedestrians can't speak out against motorists because some pedestrians are a bit naughty at traffic lights sometimes?

Jacomus-rides-Gen

So it is a case of "do as we say, not what we do"? taking "we" to be cyclists in general.

I think in order to start demanding a improvement in standards of driving, from a cyclists perspective, cyclists must show that they as a group are setting an example.

Porgy

Jacomus-rides-Gen wrote:

So it is a case of "do as we say, not what we do"? taking "we" to be cyclists in general..

No its do as I do - i don't accept your concept of "we".

I don;t behave illegally or irresponsibly on a bike or in a car.

I feel I can demand better driving - if I can drive responsibly, then so can everyone.

ddraver

[quote=

Do you think pedestrians can't speak out against motorists because some pedestrians are a bit naughty at traffic lights sometimes? [/quote]

Sorry to be pedantic...but they re not doing anything wrong...for the them the red light/man is advisory only (sum up - jaywalking isn't a crime here)

theres nothing to stop em walking down the middle of the road (unless its a motorway or a specific bit of signed road)

There are rules that stop cyclists RLJing and riding on the pavement

Porgy

ddraver wrote:

Sorry to be pedantic...but they re not doing anything wrong...for the them the red light/man is advisory only (sum up - jaywalking isn't a crime here)

theres nothing to stop em walking down the middle of the road (unless its a motorway or a specific bit of signed road)

There are rules that stop cyclists RLJing and riding on the pavement

Them? You talk as if they are aliens or something. "They" are you and me. Aren't they - or do you never get off your bike? So this - us and them philosophy your argument is based on just doesn't work. As I said I'm all three - most of us probably are. I prefer to deal with human beings - not peds, motorists, etc. Once you've removed that phoney way of looking at things you're left with people who happen to be driving (very dangerous vehicle / an utter nuisance to almost everyone even if used legally), people who happen to be cycling ( mildy dangerous vehicle and a mild annoyance/ nuisance if misused) and peds (we're all peds underneath - so we only really have a nuisance issue, this comes to understanding rights and responsibilities).

So - as with any weapon - we deal with use of these vehicles in terms of how much risk they offer to others. Cars, lorries, etc, are potential killers, so we put in place much more stringent rules about how they are used - or would you let anyone fly a jumbo jet?
If those rules are broken we come down hard on the offender because they risked someone's life. Cycling isn't like that - the risk is pretty much all your own.

As a pedestrain I've tried walking down the middle of the road - lots of times. Its funny how excited the police get when you try that! So - no I don;t accept that pedestrians can do whatever they like. Peds can be done for obstruction - I know - I've been threatened with such a charge.

ddraver

so are you arguing about the rights and wrongs of cyclists or the " like dude no walls man we re all like spirits..peace and love you dig?!"

If you re on a bike you re a cyclist, if you re walking you re a ped, if your driving you re a driver - personally i don't walk round town pretending i'm a bike...walking with my feet going in circles and sticking my arm out when i go doen a side street

the point of the article is that how its one rule for one, one wall for others when it comes to road users - cyclists RLJ, peds don't loom when they cross etc - either we ALL stop breaking rules or we live with the consequences of others doing it

Jacomus-rides-Gen

ddraver wrote:

<snip>

If you re on a bike you re a cyclist, if you re walking you re a ped, if your driving you re a driver - personally i don't walk round town pretending i'm a bike...walking with my feet going in circles and sticking my arm out when i go doen a side street

</snip>

I often catch myself chucking a lifesaver before turning or overtaking someone when I'm walking!

Porgy

ddraver wrote:

so are you arguing about the rights and wrongs of cyclists or the " like dude no walls man we re all like spirits..peace and love you dig?!"

no :?


Don't ridicule my argument - answer with logic.

ddraver

Porgy wrote:

Them? You talk as if they are aliens or something. "They" are you and me. Aren't they - or do you never get off your bike? So this - us and them philosophy your argument is based on just doesn't work. .

there that bit....... no pedestrians are not aliens, if so X-files would be rather boring (more so) you seem to assume that we think we re members of some cycling tribe...personally i think i'm cycling to uni...

perhaps you think that its a good thing to be a member of the "cycling elite"?! is it ok to kill your self undersome ones wheels jumping a red light saving yourself 10 seconds - how do you think the person who killed you, entirely accidentally, feels?

and are you telling me its ok to knock over a ped becuse it (probably) won't kill them....it ll still feckin hurt if i hit them

to sum up - the majority of cyclists in London to assume themselves to be above the law....i cannot think of a possible reason why?

Porgy

ddraver wrote:

Them? You talk as if they are aliens or something. "They" are you and me. Aren't they - or do you never get off your bike? So this - us and them philosophy your argument is based on just doesn't work. .

an mere analogy - not to be taken literally

ddraver wrote:

perhaps you think that its a good thing to be a member of the "cycling elite"?! is it ok to kill your self undersome ones wheels jumping a red light saving yourself 10 seconds - how do you think the person who killed you, entirely accidentally, feels?

Gosh! - did you read what i wrote? Where did I say that? :?

To recap: all I did was refuse to condem cyclists' illegal behaviour ahead of condeming motorists illegal behaviour - which to me is much more of a problem. Is that so terrible?

ddraver wrote:

and are you telling me its ok to knock over a ped becuse it (probably) won't kill them....it ll still feckin hurt if i hit them

to sum up - the majority of cyclists in London to assume themselves to be above the law....i cannot think of a possible reason why?

er.....no

Where....I mean WHERE....did I say that it is OK to run a ped over ?

I am a ped - I thought I'd made that clear :?

But OK - by your logic everything's fine as it is. Good. The police have reguarly anti-cycling actions - but continue to allow a car-driving free for all. That's OK. Fine. If you drive a car - running lights is fine. But on a bike its a heinous sin. OK.

Don't get upset - I'm only doing what you did.

ddraver

the point is that its fine for cyclists to act above the law because their 'weapon' as you put it (yes you did) is less leathal than a car now one could argue that cars often take junctions at 15-20mph, if they hit a ped the ped will not be killed but will be hurt

why then is it ok for cyclists to RLJ but not cars going slowly (if its safe to do so obviously) the cyclist will urt them also

you re last point - why does it have to be one or the other - I don't get it, why can't all of us obey the rules together..... that would be the best way wouldnt it?!

I'm not commenting on you particularly but watching 5 0r 6 cyclists fly past me at red lights and then reading all the comments about how annoyed people are when they get overtaken too closley is starting to get me down...thus the article in the OP does ring slightly true to me

Wynne G Oldman

I think that we all agree that all road users should abide by the law. I find that most road users are just the same as you and me. If you treat them with respect, you usually (but not always) are treated with respect in return. There's always the odd idiot that will do something stupid on the road, or have a genuine accident. Don't let that prejudice you against a certain type of road user. Unfortunately, the group that seems to break the rules the most, in my experience, are cyclists.