parking on "private" land

formerlyknownasbonj

a few times now i've parked at this car park just out of town which is at the bottom of a few really good trails, sometimes with a mate sometimes on my own, and never had any problems.
But today I parked there, and this horse woman was walking past and didn't bat an eyelid until she saw my bike in the back, and then she poked her nose in: "have you got permission to park here?"
"didn't think I needed it."
"It's private land."
"Is it? Who's?"
"*** *******'s."
"Well, I'd have to speak to her then to obtain permission."

When I got back i got her number from directory enquiries and phoned her up, she was fairly rude - she said she didn't want anybody parking on "her" land, if she'd left it at that I might just have believed her, but she was then fairly keen to stress that the only place to park down there is on her land and she didn't want anybody parking there. Which transpired as, she didn't want anybody down there at all, but the road leading up to the car park is clearly a public road.

I suggested she should maybe put some signs up if it was her land, but she rejected that suggestion saying she "didn't need signs". This, and the fact she seemed to be trying to just urge me not to go down there at all, makes me sceptical as to whether that car park is her land at all. The car park's never full, but it IS clearly a car park (albeit not tarmacced) - there's always one or two cars parked there, and I've not noticed them to be the same ones all the time.

From one perspective, it could be a poor old woman who DOES own the land and is constantly plagued by trespassers and isn't up to doing anything about them. But on the other hand it just stinks of equestrian types who don't want to share the countryside with bike riders.
I never disturb anyone, get in anyone's way and always give way to horses.

Where do I stand (a) morally - should I continue parking there if i'm not doing any harm to anyone? and (b) legally - if it's just a car park not marked as private at the end of a public road, am i within my rights to park there, and what does she have to do about it if it is her land and doesn't want me to park there?
Opinions please.

RobA

If she doesn't want you to park there then she should put up some signs, if she treis to get you done, you can say , well road leading up to the car park is clearly a public road and that it looked like a public car park.

Jonathan Mcp

The local authority or land registry should be able to tell you who owns it. Give them details or an OS grid reference.

The problem is that there is a criminal ofence that prevents vehicles being driven off the public highways - this is largely to prevent illegal motorbike/quad/4x4 usage but in theory could be applied to the situation that you describe, if it is private land, unless you have permission from the landowner..

The apparent usage of the car park is irrelevant, if it is private & the vehicles belong to the land owner or others who have an agreement to use. the onus isn't on the landowener to sign it as such either.

formerlyknownasbonj

Jonathan Mcp wrote:

The local authority or land registry should be able to tell you who owns it. Give them details or an OS grid reference.

The problem is that there is a criminal ofence that prevents vehicles being driven off the public highways - this is largely to prevent illegal motorbike/quad/4x4 usage but in theory could be applied to the situation that you describe, if it is private land, unless you have permission from the landowner..

I've not heard of such a law, but would guess it only applies to taking vehicles onto PUBLIC land that isn't a road - surely taking a vehicle onto private land is only a matter between the vehicle driver and the land owner - and if any offence is being committed it is only trespassing, which is a civil offence not a criminal offence.

Ratkilla

Same cars all the time? Hmmmm.

It seems that she had an obvious problem with the bike. I would have asked her if she offered the same advice to doggers!

Anyone seen Stan Collymore up there?

formerlyknownasbonj

Ratkilla wrote:

Same cars all the time? Hmmmm.

It seems that she had an obvious problem with the bike. I would have asked her if she offered the same advice to doggers!

Anyone seen Stan Collymore up there?

Hmm., that's an idea. I wonder if I convince her that she HAS got a problem with doggers then she'll focus her efforts on trying to oust/spy on/persecute/ban them, and leave us alone?

Ratkilla

That's what I mean. Maybe she prefers doggers to bikies. She may be voyeuristic by nature!

madmole

Since NERC 2006 bill it is an offence to drive more than 15 metres off the public highway or vehicular right or way, regardless of if its public or private in a motor vehicle (Blame the Ramblers Assoc for that one)

formerlyknownasbonj

madmole wrote:

Since NERC 2006 bill it is an offence to drive more than 15 metres off the public highway or vehicular right or way, regardless of if its public or private in a motor vehicle (Blame the Ramblers Assoc for that one)

ah well this isn't more than 15 metres off the highway. It's only a small car park, probably only about that wide in total.

owaingibby

I think it'll be safe to park there for the time being, they dont have any singage up saying you cannot park there, and you cant go on the word of one passer by on horseback saying you should not park there, and if it's within 15m then there is no problem.

mangaman

Sorry - I don't really understand this thread

Why don't you check whether she does own the land. If she does you shouldn't park there surely

I would be pretty unimpressed if I got home and you'd parked in my front garden

The fact I haven't got signs up telling people not to park there is irrelevant

Anyway if this is just outside the town, as you say, why not just ride there or park in the town and ride there. You are a cyclist I assume Bonj

AndyGates

So she owns it, you asked her and she said no.

As I understand it, you'd now be committing deliberate trespass if you parked there. You'd certainly be being rude.

formerlyknownasbonj

owaingibby wrote:

I think it'll be safe to park there for the time being, they dont have any singage up saying you cannot park there, and you cant go on the word of one passer by on horseback saying you should not park there, and if it's within 15m then there is no problem.

Hmm... that's encouraging. Thanks.

AndyGates wrote:

So she owns it, you asked her and she said no.

As I understand it, you'd now be committing deliberate trespass if you parked there. You'd certainly be being rude.

The issue is I'm not sure she does own it. She says she does, but the fact that she doesn't put signs up on what looks like a public car park and the fact that she tried to use her claim that she owned it to say that people might aswell not come down there at all, makes me think she's lying.
If she does own it, then fair enough I'm quite happy not to park there if she doesn't want me to.

formerlyknownasbonj

mangaman wrote:

Sorry - I don't really understand this thread

Why don't you check whether she does own the land.

Because an enquiry from landregistry.gov.uk costs £3, and I've got better things to spend my money on.

mangaman wrote:

I would be pretty unimpressed if I got home and you'd parked in my front garden.
The fact I haven't got signs up telling people not to park there is irrelevant.

But it's presumably quite obvious that your front garden is just that - your front garden. This is quite clearly a car park.

mangaman wrote:

Anyway if this is just outside the town, as you say, why not just ride there or park in the town and ride there. You are a cyclist I assume Bonj

Because it's a fair few miles uphill, and in the evening the time it takes can make all the difference in how much riding I can get in on the interesting bits while it's still light.

Mister Paul

I think if I came home from work to find a knackered white van covered in Hammerite on my land I'd have something to say.

Yorkshireman

Mister Paul wrote:

I think if I came home from work to find a knackered white van covered in Hammerite on my land I'd have something to say.

Hup! and Over! ... To your tame reconstituted Mammoth :twisted: .

Tourist Tony

Or is it a mastodon?

Yorkshireman

Or a shaven hybrid?

Tourist Tony

[sits on hands and bites tongue]

Yorkshireman

Tourist Tony wrote:

[sits on hands and bites tongue]

Oops! .

Tourist Tony

After all mastammoths are only giant beavers with different teeth....

Yorkshireman

Tourist Tony wrote:

After all mastammoths are only giant beavers with different teeth....

:idea: ... Er ... Changed me mind ... better not go there Beavers - Teeth :twisted: .

domtyler

Phone her up, or get someone else to phone her up and pretend to be a horsey type asking if it is okay to leave a horse-box there. Post her number here and I'll do it for you now.
________
Cancer - Uterus Advice

formerlyknownasbonj

domtyler wrote:

Phone her up, or get someone else to phone her up and pretend to be a horsey type asking if it is okay to leave a horse-box there. Post her number here and I'll do it for you now.

I'm not sure i'd want to be responsible for her getting a load of crank calls, but would be grateful if you could so if you were serious please pm me. ta.
but my van clearly isn't a horsebox... I did think it might not get noticed at all though if I just put a big poster on the side of my van saying "BONJ'S EQUESTRIAN SUPPLIES" or something similar ...

Yorkshireman

formerlyknownasbonj wrote:

domtyler wrote:

Phone her up, or get someone else to phone her up and pretend to be a horsey type asking if it is okay to leave a horse-box there. Post her number here and I'll do it for you now.

I'm not sure i'd want to be responsible for her getting a load of crank calls, but would be grateful if you could so if you were serious please pm me. ta.
but my van clearly isn't a horsebox... I did think it might not get noticed at all though if I just put a big poster on the side of my van saying "BONJ'S EQUESTRIAN SUPPLIES" or something similar ...

You could try BONJ'S EQUINE ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION SERVICE .
You could even design a logo ... :twisted:

Random Vince

madmole wrote:

Since NERC 2006 bill it is an offence to drive more than 15 metres off the public highway or vehicular right or way, regardless of if its public or private in a motor vehicle (Blame the Ramblers Assoc for that one)

so its illegal for me to visit my friends, the driveway goes for 10 meters, its another 10 meters beyond that accross the yard and then 20 meters further to get to and from the barn where she keeps her cars and we often drive randomly round thier land in a landrover,

is this illegal then?

Yorkshireman

Must be loads of farmers unlawfully driving in various vehicles checking stock and crops then

formerlyknownasbonj

Random Vince wrote:

madmole wrote:

Since NERC 2006 bill it is an offence to drive more than 15 metres off the public highway or vehicular right or way, regardless of if its public or private in a motor vehicle (Blame the Ramblers Assoc for that one)

so its illegal for me to visit my friends, the driveway goes for 10 meters, its another 10 meters beyond that accross the yard and then 20 meters further to get to and from the barn where she keeps her cars and we often drive randomly round thier land in a landrover,

is this illegal then?

No. I dont' think it's a particularly invokeable law, just a theoretical one - if that.

Tourist Tony

Can you shed one of your famoue pearls of wisdom before us mere uncouth swine and explain what a theoretical law is?

formerlyknownasbonj

Tourist Tony wrote:

Can you shed one of your famoue pearls of wisdom before us mere uncouth swine and explain what a theoretical law is?

One that's kept on the books just in case it needs to be wheeled out in a specific set of circumstances, rather than one that's actually invoked whenever it gets broken. An 'unpoliced' law, if you like.

Yorkshireman

formerlyknownasbonj wrote:

Tourist Tony wrote:

Can you shed one of your famoue pearls of wisdom before us mere uncouth swine and explain what a theoretical law is?

One that's kept on the books just in case it needs to be wheeled out in a specific set of circumstances, rather than one that's actually invoked whenever it gets broken. An 'unpoliced' law, if you like.

Is that like the law that says 'Don't excede the posted speed limit' (unless there's a camera or a policeman about)?