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Pettacchi

ashbyalienashbyalien Posts: 609
edited December 1969 in Pro race
produces a non negative. [}:)]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/27062007/ ... cence.html

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  • Phil ScpPhil Scp Posts: 2,525
    Bloody hell, I also heard the news that Fausto Coppi died!
  • ashbyalienashbyalien Posts: 609
    sorry, i've been in hospital!

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  • At the risk of being na‹ve, what's the difference between a positive and a non-negative?
  • ashbyalienashbyalien Posts: 609
    i believe non-negative sounds kinder

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  • PeteinSQPeteinSQ Posts: 2,292
    A non-negative applies to drugs that are allowed (like salbutamol) but only up to certain levels, at least that is my understanding.

    Petacchi is a registered asthmatic (along with half of the pro-tour) and so can use salbutamol. However he has tested positive for too much.
    <a><img></a>
  • mossycpmossycp Posts: 233
    A non negative is where the rider has tested positive but they have a TUE (Theraputic Use Exemption) certifciate enabling them to use that substance. In Petacchi's case he has a TUE for Salbutamol, however, there are upper limits that he would be expected not to exceed and he exceeded them.

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  • He's being investigated over this. I think that the implication is that he's been using pachydermic quantaties of the steroid.

    Is anyone surprised? He was Ferretti's star man.

    TdG
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    Hardly the biggest crime taking a bit more asthma drugs than normal.

    WADA et al. need to re-think testing completly. I'd like to see different classes of drugs with differing penalties as we see in recreational drugs i.e. crack higher than weed.

    The Class A in sport being those that are most dangeous and/or offer the biggest performance increases.
  • Its more than a few extra puffs. These guys get quite a lot of this stuff pumped into their systems and this can cause serious side effects. It can also be used to mask other steroids.

    TdG
  • NoodleyNoodley Posts: 1,725
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eh</i>

    Hardly the biggest crime taking a bit more asthma drugs than normal.

    WADA et al. need to re-think testing completly. I'd like to see different classes of drugs with differing penalties as we see in recreational drugs i.e. crack higher than weed.

    The Class A in sport being those that are most dangeous and/or offer the biggest performance increases.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    should we then expect to see different classes of excuses used for different classes of drugs? "mother in law" for using using masking agents anyone?
  • Stephen SorbaStephen Sorba Posts: 1,036
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Noodley</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eh</i>

    Hardly the biggest crime taking a bit more asthma drugs than normal.

    WADA et al. need to re-think testing completly. I'd like to see different classes of drugs with differing penalties as we see in recreational drugs i.e. crack higher than weed.

    The Class A in sport being those that are most dangeous and/or offer the biggest performance increases.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">



    should we then expect to see different classes of excuses used for different classes of drugs? "mother in law" for using using masking agents anyone?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    My favourite from last week:
    <i>German Ivonne Kraft has tested positive for the asthma medication Fenoterol after a cyclo-cross race on May 6. The German federation (BDR) has opened proceedings against the 36 year-old, deciding not to wait for the B sample. She faces a six-month suspension.

    In a statement, Kraft said that her mother, who suffers from asthma, attended the race, and when she tried to use her medicated spray the bottle exploded and the cyclist must have inhaled the substance at that time.</i>


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  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Oh thats a good one !!

    And isnt it funny how so many pro cyclists need inhalers ? Much more than I see here in teh office, and you would expect if anything, professional athletes to have a lower percentage.

    Whats the reason - does an inhaler enhance performance in a healthy person ? Or is it a masking agent ?
  • kavcpkavcp Posts: 101
    For the benefit of Mr Eh... http://tinyurl.com/3b3xpx

    Of particular interest:
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">However under WADA and UCI rules, the maximum limit for salbutamol in urine tests is 1000ng/ml. Above that the drugs is considered a steroid because it can help performance and recovery. Serious asthma attack and consequent high use of inhalers rarely produce levels of 400 to 500ng/ml. Seven inhalations apparently produce a level of 200ng/ml.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Being an asthmatic, particularly in the past, I'd say that 1000ng/ml is very generous. Fair enough if they were wheezing like old men and puffing away during a race but I just don't see it. So to exceed the level....hmmm.

    As to the German female tri-athelete. Nice try.
  • Petacchi was what 1320? Looks very iffy.

    TdG
  • afx237viafx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Gonzalez de Galdeano recorded 1360 and was let off, so who knows?
  • nwallacenwallace Posts: 1,465
    "S3. BETA-2 AGONISTS
    All beta-2 agonists including their D- and L-isomers are prohibited.
    As an exception, formoterol, salbutamol, salmeterol and terbutaline when
    administered by inhalation, require an abbreviated Therapeutic Use Exemption.
    Despite the granting of any form of Therapeutic Use Exemption, a concentration
    of salbutamol (free plus glucuronide) greater than 1000 ng/mL will be considered
    an Adverse Analytical Finding unless the Athlete proves that the abnormal result
    was the consequence of the therapeutic use of inhaled salbutamol."

    So looks like a he needs a very good reason for having such a high level.


    And for my interest
    "S9. GLUCOCORTICOSTEROIDS
    All glucocorticosteroids are prohibited when administered orally, rectally,
    intravenously or intramuscularly. Their use requires a Therapeutic Use Exemption
    approval.
    Other routes of administration (intraarticular /periarticular/ peritendinous/
    epidural/ intradermal injections and inhalation) require an Abbreviated
    Therapeutic Use Exemption except as noted below.
    Topical preparations when used for dermatological (including
    iontophoresis/phonophoresis), auricular, nasal, ophthalmic, buccal, gingival and
    perianal disorders are not prohibited and do not require any form of Therapeutic
    Use Exemption."

    Got to wonder how they know the difference between Topical and non Topical taking of the stuff especially as Beclometasone is now available as a nasal ablication without prescription. The most obvious sign that I have either taken too much or not enough is lots of Sneezing.

    I also find it interesting that in the list of sports where Alcohol is banned in competition the one sport you may expect to see listed is Cycling... well it isn't. So it's ok to be sloshed while lapping the Nurburgring provided your bike has pedals (rad am ring) and not a motor (most other races).
    hm...
    Do Nellyphants count?

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    Off Road: FCN 11

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  • Mr BumbleMr Bumble Posts: 572
    Petacchi sounds like a naughty schoolboy caught in the act...

    It sounds like he is going to beg CONI with @fancy Italy not winning 2/3/4/5? sprint stages this tour cough!

    Don't understand how he can have respiratory problems and be an elite sprinter
  • Funny how none of the riders ever seem to have an asthma attck halfway up a col....
  • He has now been suspended by Milram.
  • rashrash Posts: 12
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by iainf72</i>

    He has now been suspended by Milram.

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    That's the second rider from my team of 15 (cyclingnews.com fantasy game) that has been suspended, Kessler was the other.
    Looks like I'll have no riders left on my team before the tour starts.
  • Nae-neckNae-neck Posts: 49
    I have to say I am becoming increasingly disillusioned at the drugs results coming back, although, conversely, increasingly positive that they are 'catching' the drug cheats...and there are certainly many of them out there IMHO.

    As I undertand things, if a so called healthy person walked into a hospital with some of the readings these so called healthy elite athletes have, re white/red/green/spotted pink blood cell counts and testoterone levels and salbutanol levels, they'd be rushed straight into the ICU!

    Sadly, I now believe that most of the cyclists on the Tours take drugs in one way or another, which, if caught, would lead to a ban. Why else do teams have their very own Dr for goodness sake? Why do many refuse to provide DNA?

    Call me a cynic but this cynic wont watch the TdF with the same respect and admiration as previously...1300 and 1800 readings for the two P's...FFS, just own up[V]; you're standing over your worst enemy body with a gun in your hand!!!



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  • ashbyalienashbyalien Posts: 609
    nae-neck, i agree to some extent.

    fortunately, the naive me still believes that for the most part the brits and french ride clean.

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  • fuzzy29fuzzy29 Posts: 320
    <font face="Tahoma"></font id="Tahoma">I also feel that watching the TdF this year will be a bit hollow. [V]

    Although, on a more positive note, with no Petacchi, Cavendish will be feeling a bit happier.


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  • it just never ends. I do know no human body can handle 3 weeks of 100+ miles a day at 25 mph-there isn't a training regimen/diet in existence nor a member of the human species so talented as to be able to do this naturally...drugs are needed..because the training needed for silly ideas like grand tours of 21 days require drugs to do the training. It's the ridiculous demands professional cycling makes on the human body that need looked at first



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  • Ste_SSte_S Posts: 1,173
    I bet Zabel is over the moon, all of Pettachi's lead out train to look after him during TdF


    Danger ! Men at work
  • ashbyalienashbyalien Posts: 609
    zabel, now there's a guy with an unblemished record..........

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  • fuzzy29fuzzy29 Posts: 320
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave_1</i>

    it just never ends. I do know no human body can handle 3 weeks of 100+ miles a day at 25 mph-there isn't a training regimen/diet in existence nor a member of the human species so talented as to be able to do this naturally...drugs are needed..because the training needed for silly ideas like grand tours of 21 days require drugs to do the training. It's the ridiculous demands professional cycling makes on the human body that need looked at first
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    <font face="Tahoma"></font id="Tahoma">The Tour stages are a lot shorter than they used to be, the bikes are a lot lighter and the training is more professional. So if they could compete back in the old days, then why not now? As for the argument that they wouldn't dope if the races were shorter, Ben Johnson cheated to win a 100 metre sprint. You can't get much shorter than that.


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  • gsdgsd Posts: 114
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fuzzy29</i>


    <font face="Tahoma"></font id="Tahoma">The Tour stages are a lot shorter than they used to be, the bikes are a lot lighter and the training is more professional. So if they could compete back in the old days, then why not now? As for the argument that they wouldn't dope if the races were shorter, <b>Ben Johnson cheated to win a 100 metre sprint. You can't get much shorter than that.</b>
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    ...and Justin Gatlin. And Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones are very implicated in the whole Trevor Graham affair (to the extend that Montgomery's world record was revoked). Rest assured, cycling isn't the only sport with serious problems).

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  • kavcpkavcp Posts: 101
    And I think a large part of the problem is the institutionalized nature of the doping in these cases. For Trevor Graham and Balco read Fuentes and Madrid. And like whack-a-moley every time you get one another one pops up. Shouldn't stop you trying though.

    The UCI's attitude, especially under Verbruggen has been scandalous. More worried about ruining the Hour with mentalist rules than the escalating 'arms race' in doping. Turning it round is going to be murderous as a result and it is a shame that the riders are being singled out - but I'd penalize everyone equally, I wouldn't be letting the riders off rather making sure the teams and sponsors get it in the neck too.

    Who knows what things will look like in a year, 2 or 5. But I don't think you'll find anyone hoping it looks like 1992 - 2007 (to spuriously pick a starting date based on guess work, rumour and inuendo about EPO use).
  • ridgeriderridgerider Posts: 2,813
    He's been caught, he should do a Basso and stop treating us like idiots.

    (I am reading The Death of Pantini book at the moment so feel fully qualified to make this judgement!)

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