Primary Pants?

jamesAC · June 2007

I'm getting a bit alarmed of the consequences of adopting the primary position. For example, this morning, I'm bowling along to work. On the left, about 20m ahead, a large WV is obscuring a road junction on the left. So I move out into a very strong primary position, so that I can see round the van, and anyone emerging has got a chance to see me. I glimpse a hint of a car emerging, and apply some braking. Just as well, as some old bird is turing right out of side road, across my path. At this moment, a guy in a car behind me tries to overtake me! I'm really glad that I had created oodles of room for myself, because I was about to become the lettuce in a salad sandwich! The old bird sawed away at the steering wheel, a look of total panic on her face. The guy more-or-less alongside me hoots: I'm not sure if he was hooting at me or the old bird. The road ahead clears, and I start off .. but the guy on my starboard quarter has different ideas .. and floors it. Which is a problem, 'cos there's a traffic island dead ahead. So what's the guy do? Yep. He roars round the WRONG SIDE of the ti.

This has happened to me before, usually in the same road.

What alarms me is that by "forcing" drivers to drive round the wrong side of a ti, an accident will happen, perhaps involving a completely innocent pedestrian who is not expecting a car on the wrong side of the road.

Thoughts?

Why did Noddy pay the ransom? - Because the elephants have got big ears!

jamesAC

richteacp · June 2007

You hardly 'forced' him to go round the wrong side of the ti did you, just sounds like a poor driver.

--
esta elefante del beb‚ me molesta

Cab · June 2007

The person on the other side of the road is no more innocent than you are. You're entitled to be in the primary postion in a place like that, its the safer place for you to be, if someone else as a result of that stupidly causes an accident then thats their fault, and you are entirely blameless.

I'm willing to wager your chances of being t-boned by the car pulling out from the side would have been much greater had you not been in primary, and you wouldn't have had the space to pull in to escape the moron trying to overtake if you'd needed to.

Free baby elephants for every citizen
Vote Arch for Prime Minister

mazcp · June 2007

I almost had the same scenario...only in my case the driver squeezed me against the curb and knocked me over.

Maybe the car that overtook you didn't think he could squeeze between you and the TI, so went the wrong side of the road instead as a countermeasure.
Either way if there was an accident, it'd be his fault for being where he shouldn't. For your ownsafety, stay in primary, I'd say.

mazcp · June 2007

What's 'T-boned' mean? Squashed?

Tynancp · June 2007

nasty, not really a primary thing, sounds like you did the routine and correct thing, the person pulling out needs to se you and you need to see them and you need room to be able to react should the worse hapen

driver behind you was an idiot

el_presidente · June 2007

hit side-on

Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by maz

What's 'T-boned' mean? Squashed?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Errm... Dunno, I just sort of came up with it [:D]

I meant that if you're in primary and someone comes on to the road from the side, then (a) you're more visible and they're less likely to come right out at you, and (b) even if they haven't seen you or they see you and still come, you've got more time and space to react; you're less likely to have someone come out right in front so you can't miss them or right into your side.

Free baby elephants for every citizen
Vote Arch for Prime Minister

Tynancp · June 2007

you'd be likely to T-bone them

before doing a forward somersault over their car, hopefully

jamesAC · June 2007

I argue to myself that I was in the correct position; I find that the more experience I have of cycling, the more I adopt the primary position when conditions dictate.

But I just had a cold, gut wrenching moment when the guy roared off round the ti -- suppose a mother with a baby in a pram had stepped off in front of him, not expecting someone on the wromg side of the road? Technically, I suppose, it would be completely his fault.. but ..

Maybe I'll get a helmet cam

Meanwhile, here's a still I took just off the City Road in London a month or so ago .. it makes cycling so much more secure ...

http://www.zen64046.zen.co.uk/group4.jpg

Why did Noddy pay the ransom? - Because the elephants have got big ears!

jamesAC

Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamesAC

I argue to myself that I was in the correct position; I find that the more experience I have of cycling, the more I adopt the primary position when conditions dictate.

But I just had a cold, gut wrenching moment when the guy roared off round the ti -- suppose a mother with a baby in a pram had stepped off in front of him, not expecting someone on the wromg side of the road? Technically, I suppose, it would be completely his fault.. but ..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Suppose they had. Or suppose you were in secondary position and the car coming out from the side didn't see you and hit you in the side, and then the car behind had still hit the mother and child. Or suppose you were in secondary position and the car behind overtook and hit the car pulling out at speed, careering off and hit the mother and child... You can't start playing 'just suppose' games with these situations because you'll go hat-stand. Its your responsibility as a cyclist to pick the safest position on te road for you and those around you, and in a situation like the one you describe that position is primary. Can that still go wrong? Yes, of course it can, $41t happens.

Free baby elephants for every citizen
Vote Arch for Prime Minister

mazcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamesAC
-- suppose a mother with a baby in a pram had stepped off in front of him, not expecting someone on the wromg side of the road?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nah. That only happens in chase sequences of action films, right?

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamesAC

I argue to myself that I was in the correct position; I find that the more experience I have of cycling, the more I adopt the primary position when conditions dictate.

But I just had a cold, gut wrenching moment when the guy roared off round the ti -- suppose a mother with a baby in a pram had stepped off in front of him, not expecting someone on the wromg side of the road? Technically, I suppose, it would be completely his fault.. but ..

Maybe I'll get a helmet cam

Meanwhile, here's a still I took just off the City Road in London a month or so ago .. it makes cycling so much more secure ...

http://www.zen64046.zen.co.uk/group4.jpg

Why did Noddy pay the ransom? - Because the elephants have got big ears!

jamesAC
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1, as cab says, stop with the "what if"

the car illegally went the wrong side of the traffic island,

even if something has broken down blocking traffic through the traffic island, you have to turn round and find another route, it is totally illegal to dissobey the white arrow on blue background pointing to the left of the island.

car's fault, not yours

the overtaking vehicle MUST ensure he has enough space to get round the slower moving vehicle (note that its not termed 'motor vehicle")

andrewc3142 · June 2007

What they said above.

When you adopt a more assertive position it's often helpful to make sure you keep up a good speed ideally with the cars if that's possible.

Totalnewbie · June 2007

I get what you mean, but really, he was not 'forced' to drive on the other side, he made that decision himself. I have had people do similar things when I was driving in the car at the speed limit and they were desperate to overtake; nothing I could have done (except break the speed limit possibly) would have made any difference.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/ ... 400572.jpg

domtyler · June 2007

I thought this post was going to be about leaving a spare pair of pants at work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol
________
Motorcycle Tires

AndyGates · June 2007

Driver went on the wrong side of an island. He's a cock. End of.

You are not responsible for the cocks on the roads.

No longer looking for a pennyfarthing as I've got some powerbocks instead. Casualty here I come!
It is by will alone I set my ride in motion.

jamesAC · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler

I thought this post was going to be about leaving a spare pair of pants at work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The way the old bird and the guy were driving I damn near needed them!! [;)]

Why did Noddy pay the ransom? - Because the elephants have got big ears!

jamesAC

gralegav · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler

I thought this post was going to be about leaving a spare pair of pants at work.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I do that too!

Tynancp · June 2007

red pants
green pants
blue pants

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamesAC

suppose a mother with a baby in a pram had stepped off in front of him, not expecting someone on the wromg side of the road? Technically, I suppose, it would be completely his fault.. but ..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It would be completely his fault, however I don't know about anyone else but I always looks both ways anytime I cross the road, even one-way streets. Not trusting enough to believe that other people will be following the rules.

Mister Paul · June 2007

You're not responsible for either of the other drivers' actions. You were in the correct position, and maximising your own safety.

It's strange that we have such a road culture in this country of advocating responsibility to other road users. Don't fall for it.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tynan

red pants
green pants
blue pants
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Shouldn't that be yellow, not green?

Oh, hang on, from Wiki...

"For additive combination of colors, as in overlapping projected lights or in CRT displays, the primary colors normally used are red, green, and blue. For subtractive combination of colors, as in mixing of pigments or dyes, such as in printing, the primaries normally used are magenta, cyan, and yellow."

Ok, you can have green. But I'll stick to yellow and my poster paints...[;)]

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

cupofteacp · June 2007

sounds like brown pants

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

Spikey_David · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jamesAC

On the left, about 20m ahead, a large WV is obscuring a road junction on the left.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is one of the reasons that the Highway code rule 217 says:
"DO NOT park your vehicle or trailer on the road where it would endanger, inconvenience or obstruct pedestrians or other road users. For example, do not stop ... opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, ... "

Some of the blame should lie on the driver or the WV.

Cab · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spikey_David
Some of the blame should lie on the driver or the WV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A valid point.

I wonder, if questioned, whether any of the motorists would be feeling as down about the incident as james is. It was a near miss, it could have been a tragedy, but I'll bet that each of the motorists would go away from this thinking its someone elses fault and not their own.

Free baby elephants for every citizen
Vote Arch for Prime Minister

A - W · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

You're not responsible for either of the other drivers' actions. You were in the correct position, and maximising your own safety.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My thoughts as well. Your own safety is the first rule.

domtyler · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cab
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spikey_David
Some of the blame should lie on the driver or the WV.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A valid point.

I wonder, if questioned, whether any of the motorists would be feeling as down about the incident as james is. It was a near miss, it could have been a tragedy, but I'll bet that each of the motorists would go away from this thinking its someone elses fault and not their own.

Free baby elephants for every citizen
Vote Arch for Prime Minister
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good point, and I cannot imagine who they will be apportioning blame to! ("Ferking cyclists, shouldn't be on the roads")

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol
________
Cannabis collective

farrell · June 2007

He's probably one of those drivers who got someone else to take his driving test.

__________________________________________________<h6>www.farrellart-london.co.uk

www.farrellart-london.co.uk/bike/bike.html</h6>

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gralegav

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler

I thought this post was going to be about leaving a spare pair of pants at work.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I do that too!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Me too ..

I have some Polaris which I wear most of the time and some Cannondales that I only wear occasionally (they are a bit tight).

Work
Play

jamesAC · June 2007

Thanks one and all. These are the conclusions I've come to:

1) I'll get myself some yellow, green, red, blue and brown pants.

2) The guy in the WV was to blame most of all: his (or her!) bad parking on the corner made observation difficult;

3) The old bird (I've seen her before down this road - she can hardly see over the steering wheel) should have exercised the utmost caution when pulling out of the side road - she had no idea at all what was coming down the road;

4) The guy who tried to overtake me was just your typical motorist: there was something in front going slower than he was, therefore, overtake it at all cost.

Thanks for the encouraging comments.

Its not all bad: last night on my way home, I was aware of a vehicle a few meters behind - not revving the engine, not hooting, not right up my mudguard. He sat there quietly for 15 - 20 seconds. I saw a reasonable gap in the parked cars on the left, pulled in, waved him on. He drove carefully and calmly past, toot toot on his horn, flash flash on his, err, flashers. It was, to my astonishment, a WV![:)]

Why did Noddy pay the ransom? - Because the elephants have got big ears!

jamesAC

Primary Pants?

Comments

Categories