Preparing for the 12 Hour
SteveR_100Milers
Posts: 5,987
I want to ride it this year, despite it being my first full season. Will be doing a couple of 50's beforehand in July, aswell as 25's plus several 10's. I am not going to do a 100, however, biggest problem is I go on holiday for 2 weeks in what is basically a hotel/beach/pool/bar holiday with my family. There is a gymn of sorts, but Its not going to be that well equipped. I need some help, other than simply dont drink or jog whenever I can. bearing in mind its going to be 40 Deg C ish in the day so outdoor activity other than swimming is not possible. Someone has suggested pedaloes! maybe several hours a day might be the trick??!!
I realise pure speed is not essential for the 12, and my target is "only" 200 miles this year. Anyone else in/been in a similar situation?
<font size="1">Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!</font id="size1">
I realise pure speed is not essential for the 12, and my target is "only" 200 miles this year. Anyone else in/been in a similar situation?
<font size="1">Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!</font id="size1">
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Which is OK until about 3 hours in.....I cant do an impersonation of an ostrich..[:)]
<font size="1">Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!</font id="size1">0 -
You don't actually say how long before the 12hr the holiday is, which I would have thought would be relevant.
Going off at a tangent, when I started racing I did a 100 in my first season, saving the 12hr for the next. Personally, I think you'd be better trying to get a 100 in prior to the 12 if you can. (Maybe not possible).
12 hours is a heck of a long time to be TT'ing, even if you are used to long rides generally.
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Dave0 -
A top tester replied to me recently when I asked him how he paced the national 50, 'I ride it like five 10 mile TT's back2back'.
Based on this information, do a few 25's, get your pace sorted for this distance, then do twelve 25mile TT's back2back on the day.
By hour 10, you might find the pace is dropping a little,
but just battle on through!
http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk0 -
Am away for 2 weeks returning the Thursady before the 12hr which is on the sunday. Not much time to get going again.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Based on this information, do a few 25's, get your pace sorted for this distance, then do twelve 25mile TT's back2back on the day.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Andy, I'll try that approach for the first 25 miles then...[:)]
<font size="1">Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!</font id="size1">0 -
Hire a bike for a day half way through the holiday. Or find a gym bike. Do at least 3 hours
Having a week off before your big event is a great idea
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Drink your souplesse0 -
No suggestions steve, but fair play to doing the 12hr - i guess it is alone?
That is more of a mental battle than physical in my books
good luck
Mark
In sport, losing is the end of the world .....
la marmotte xD
In sport, losing is the end of the world .....
la marmotte xD0 -
You are nuts....
I've never done more than a 50TT and only 3 or so in a season max - OK close to 2 hours on a lumpy course, but would never consider a 12h (10/25 mile TT's man in my time - just didn't enjoy 50's, especially the feeling afterwards ).
My club mate did the odd 12, but it takes a lot of preparation, lots of big miles and I'd say a couple of fast 100's before doing the 12h as prep.
Good Luck if you go for it !0 -
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by fossyant</i>
You are nuts....
I've never done more than a 50TT and only 3 or so in a season max - OK close to 2 hours on a lumpy course, but would never consider a 12h (10/25 mile TT's man in my time - just didn't enjoy 50's, especially the feeling afterwards ).
My club mate did the odd 12, but it takes a lot of preparation, lots of big miles and I'd say a couple of fast 100's before doing the 12h as prep.
Good Luck if you go for it !
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Well the Dragon kind of brought some scale of effort required to the idea. 7 and half hours or so in the mountains vs 12 on the flat. Stamina wise it cant be THAT different, but....if nothing else its a good way to get some quality miles in. [:)]
<font size="1">Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!</font id="size1">0 -
It depends on what training you have done to build up to it but I would always suggest doing at least 1 100tt before the 12 just to make yourself aware of how hard it really is. I have done 5 12 hours over the years and the one which I was most comfortable (not that any have been comfortable) was the one where I had raced all season and done 2 100 tts before the 12.
Its a very hard event so be careful not to underestimate it, and good luck.. just dont start too fast0 -
My view is (based upon several riders who have done several of both distances) is that the 100 is the hardest, since your effort isnt much lower than a 50, which lets be honest is the same as a 25...The attraction of the 12 hour is that its more sportive (without the hills) than race: the challenge is as much to complete it as ride a target mileage. I am aiming for what I think is a modest 17-18 mph average, and see how I get on...0
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SteveR_100Milers wrote:The attraction of the 12 hour is that its more sportive (without the hills) than race: the challenge is as much to complete it as ride a target mileage. I am aiming for what I think is a modest 17-18 mph average, and see how I get on...
That doesn't sound like any of the 12hr's that I ever rode. I wouldn't say that a 100 is harder either. In fact, the last 12hr I rode, I did the first 100 miles of it faster than my PB 100 from the week previously. I "just" then had to keep going for another 7.75 hours.
Surely the point of any time trial is that you are trying as hard as you can, whatever the distance. Riding at your limit for 12 hours is not easy, physically or mentally.
I don't see the point in riding round just to finish..
Dave0 -
SteveR_100Milers wrote:My view is (based upon several riders who have done several of both distances) is that the 100 is the hardest, since your effort isnt much lower than a 50, which lets be honest is the same as a 25...The attraction of the 12 hour is that its more sportive (without the hills) than race: the challenge is as much to complete it as ride a target mileage. I am aiming for what I think is a modest 17-18 mph average, and see how I get on...
Any race is hard because you will be going at the maximum you can for that particular event, I have ridden hillclimb events of no more than about 600 metres and thrown up at the end of them, and felt like death warmed up for the rest of the day. At the other end of the scale after my first twelve hour I slept for almost a full 24 hours after finishing. To say that a 100 mile tt hurts more than a 12 hour is too simplistic.. at lest in a 100 you can climb off after 100 miles. In a 12 you are going to have to do the same again and more, hitting 100 miles and realising that, especially if you do a five hour first hundred can really demoralise you particularly if you are already tired.0 -
Steve,
Just break the course down into small sections..... Rat Trap to The Ship Inn, Ship Inn to King of Prussia, King of Prussia to The Charthouse etc. If you get desperate we'll have the BBQ and lashings of red wine at the main feed :P
One of our guys did the 12 as his only open TT for last year (probably his only open TT ever) and knocked out 180 odd miles on zero training. If you can put up with the boredom, 200 miles shouldn't be that hard... 0 -
Exactly my view of it too Martin. and thanks for the erm "encouragement" from the other...
I know of at least 3 who did the 12 before a 100 and did over 200 miles first time out. If you think and can ride as hard (i.e. RPE or HR whichever way you look at it) in 12 hours as you can 4 then well done I say, not that I'd believe you
but thanks for the advice nonetheless.
I rode the Dragon as hard as I could for 200Kms, and I couldn't maintain the same effort (not pace) for another 5 hours. IMO doing a 12 is a little more of a challenge than riding a 100 miles as fast as I can, and once completed the sense of achievement totally different. I'm doing it, and if i beat anyone thats done a hundred then I'll be blowing large raspberries... 0 -
Nobody is suggesting that you can't ride a 12 without riding a 100, but I think it makes a lot more sense to do so. (People are only trying to help)!
The 100 serves as a good introduction to pacing yourself over a longer distance and gives you an idea of what a sensible target might be for the 12.
For the record, my PB 12hr average speed is about 2mph slower than my PB 100.
Good luck in the 12..
Dave0 -
SteveR_100Milers wrote:Exactly my view of it too Martin. and thanks for the erm "encouragement" from the other...
I know of at least 3 who did the 12 before a 100 and did over 200 miles first time out. If you think and can ride as hard (i.e. RPE or HR whichever way you look at it) in 12 hours as you can 4 then well done I say, not that I'd believe you but thanks for the advice nonetheless.
I rode the Dragon as hard as I could for 200Kms, and I couldn't maintain the same effort (not pace) for another 5 hours. IMO doing a 12 is a little more of a challenge than riding a 100 miles as fast as I can, and once completed the sense of achievement totally different. I'm doing it, and if i beat anyone thats done a hundred then I'll be blowing large raspberries...
Its advice rather than encouragement, the notion of doing a twelve 'cold' seems borderline crazy to me, having done several I know just how hard the event is and using the 100 is a good way to get used to riding the bike for long periods (ie longer than a 10, 25 or 50) is imo a good stepping stone. The 12 isn't a race for most people more an execise in survival and its a great atmosphere with a sense of cameraderie that you dont really get in the shorter distances so you will enjoy it just don't take it too lightly and be aware that you will suffer, even riders like Kev Dawson and Gethin Butler go through patches of suffering so we mere mortals are bound to.0 -
Steve a couple of thoughts.
My first 12hr I hadn't riden a 100 tt before but I had rode for over 10 hours in training. Inexperience, stupidity and not having a forum to ask advuce on, ment I paced it wrong, messed up early drinks/food and packed/blew up at 80 miles.
My second 12, I came back from a 'sticky lung operation' three weeks before and I was able to race it. I had now done two 100 tt's and to me they were essential. In the event, pacing was good and everything was right, distance was poor due to the op. The point being you can ride a 12 with a bad lead up as long as the miles have been done before and you get things right on the day.
The third 12 I raced and we picked up the team trophy (have I mentioned that before. :oops: ))
My 4th 12 the one we're taliking about, I should go further but no trophy me thinks this year.
So advice. You seem set on not 'racing it' but remember that you will get caught up in the early mornning madness. The best advice I was given was the race is won in the afternoon and given the 5 loops of the d/c this is very true. Everyone except for a select few have big drop offs as the day goes on. Mentaly the afternoon is very tough be prepared for this! The evening session on the other hand is physicaly tough but mentaly easier.
Setting a target distance and thus a target av. speed is a great idea but remember the start stretch to hereford is relatively slow and the finnishing circuit is relatively fast, so don't let it (av.speed) get to you or influence your pacing too much.
To put some pressure on you, I think you'll manage 200 miles but 216 would be a good target (18mph) or further :?:0 -
Iansuth wrote:SteveR_100Milers wrote:Exactly my view of it too Martin. and thanks for the erm "encouragement" from the other...
I know of at least 3 who did the 12 before a 100 and did over 200 miles first time out. If you think and can ride as hard (i.e. RPE or HR whichever way you look at it) in 12 hours as you can 4 then well done I say, not that I'd believe you but thanks for the advice nonetheless.
I rode the Dragon as hard as I could for 200Kms, and I couldn't maintain the same effort (not pace) for another 5 hours. IMO doing a 12 is a little more of a challenge than riding a 100 miles as fast as I can, and once completed the sense of achievement totally different. I'm doing it, and if i beat anyone thats done a hundred then I'll be blowing large raspberries...
Its advice rather than encouragement, the notion of doing a twelve 'cold' seems borderline crazy to me, having done several I know just how hard the event is and using the 100 is a good way to get used to riding the bike for long periods (ie longer than a 10, 25 or 50) is imo a good stepping stone. The 12 isn't a race for most people more an execise in survival and its a great atmosphere with a sense of cameraderie that you dont really get in the shorter distances so you will enjoy it just don't take it too lightly and be aware that you will suffer, even riders like Kev Dawson and Gethin Butler go through patches of suffering so we mere mortals are bound to.
I totally agree, but you dont HAVE to ride a 100TT to prepare for it! I know I can ride for 150 miles without major stops etc, but am under no illusion its going to be hard as hell, which is the whole point of doing it!0 -
I can see the attraction of doing a badly-prepared 12. I've done a couple of MTB 12s off not a great deal of training. I was way off the pace of the best guys there, and probably way off my own 'theoretical' best. Didn't stop them being hugely rewarding. Good fuelling strategy and reserves of pig-headedness will be your friends. Enjoy!0
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stever 100milers,
go for it you will enjoy it. not on the day but probably a fortnight later.
as for riding a 12 without a 100, well put it like this, a club mate of mine rode the 24hr last year and had never competed in any race what so ever ,prior to that, and we promptly walked away with a national team medal for our endevor. so it most definately can be done.
welsh 12 is a cracking event, well run ,well marshalled and well supported . but please dont kid yourself ,the dragon ride was a piece of pi$$ in comparrison, you will feel like you`ve never felt before in a 12, but the personal satisfaction is beyond anything else i`ve encountered. whilst we`re on the subject if you go into this thinking it`s not really a race and peeps are riding it as a endurance sportive type thing , you will be mistaken.
all the best ,see you thereconstantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly0 -
sub55 wrote:stever 100milers,
go for it you will enjoy it. not on the day but probably a fortnight later.
as for riding a 12 without a 100, well put it like this, a club mate of mine rode the 24hr last year and had never competed in any race what so ever ,prior to that, and we promptly walked away with a national team medal for our endevor. so it most definately can be done.
welsh 12 is a cracking event, well run ,well marshalled and well supported . but please dont kid yourself ,the dragon ride was a piece of pi$$ in comparrison, you will feel like you`ve never felt before in a 12, but the personal satisfaction is beyond anything else i`ve encountered. whilst we`re on the subject if you go into this thinking it`s not really a race and peeps are riding it as a endurance sportive type thing , you will be mistaken.
all the best ,see you there
Only I will be thinking this way, I will assume that everyone else is racing. It's the only way I can mentally contemplate it. The main reason I am thinking of doing it this way (little valid prep, apporaching it as an endurance event not a race) is because a couple of riders who will be doing the 24 and the 12 did their first ones exactly this way too. To be honest, my entry form is still sitting in the envelope, waiting to be posted. Plus I'll need to buy a new saddle since the loaned one I have been using has been returned to its rightful owner.0 -
I haven 't done that many 100s or 12s, about 5 of the first and four of the second.
I find hundreds to much more difficult than 12s. and I have enjoyed all the 12s more than any hundred. I do not believ you need a 100 as prep for a 12
Ride your 12 and enjoy it. If you have some miles for the year and the weather is ok you will probably find yourself doing more than 200 if you can stay on the bike for most of the 12 hours and you eat and drink ok.
Good luck0 -
Might sound like a silly question, but how do 12s and 24s work? Presumably there is some sort of loop? There must be marshals regularly spaced around the course to find out where every body is? Is it a mass start? Does it rely on peoples honesty and computers? What happens when the 12/24 is up, I mean you're riding the course and your computers beeps your time is up, what do you do, record your distance and make your way to base?0
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It's not a silly question at all. The answer is that riders set off at minute intervals just like in any other time-trial. The course usually consists of several defined laps or circuits which are pre-measured and riders are told how many time to complete each lap. However, at any time marshals may instruct a fast rider to do an extra lap or slower riders to move on to the next circuit if they are falling behind the rest of the field. In this way all the riders are contained more or less within known, shortish loops which can be marshalled. The number of laps of each circuit done by each rider is monitored.
In the closing hours of the event riders are directed onto a 'finishing circuit' which might be about 10-15 miles round. At frequent intervals round this circuit are stationed timekeepers who record the time of each rider as they pass. Each rider rides until they reach the timekeeper after their time elapses. From the timekeeper just before their time elapsed to the timekeeper just after, it's possible to interpolate their estimated position at the exact time their 12hrs or 24hrs was up - and so their total distance is calculated.
Simple innit?
(The reason I'm hanging around online just now is because I'm waiting for the results of the National 24hr Championship which ended about 3 hours ago............... the chief timekeeper must be feverishly calculating times as I write. If you're interested in how far they've gone you'll find the results here: http://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/index.asp ) 0 -
thanks. Simple... hmmm :roll: . A bit more organisation and logistics than I could have imagined. So in a 24hr, are they allowed to sleep? I mean can you ride the full 24 with no sleep or choose to ride faster and take a few hrs sleep?
The results not posted yet then, be interesting to see the results.0 -
You are allowed to sleep, rest or just take time off the bike if you wish - but of course you're wasting time if you do. I think some of the less serious competitors do stop in the overnight cafe or feed stations for a meal, break or quick nap but the most serious riders try to stay on the bike as much as possible, I understand. It's a requirement that riders have good lighting during the night so most will stop for their helpers to fix on/remove lights and to put on/take off night clothes.
I wonder why the results are taking so long today? I know the chief timekeeper and he's quite proud of his spreadsheet which does all the complex calculations and, in theory, comes up with the results very quickly..........!0 -
WOW! Lynne Taylor 4th with over 459 miles! That's fantastic! She was less than 3 miles short of the competition record held by Christine Roberts!
Sub55 of this forum 7th and in the winning team with 442 miles. Well done Paul!0 -
459 miles, >19mph!!!! WOW
I don't see the results page tho?0 -
It's currently the third item down on the 'Latest Items Added' list.
There are already horror stories circulating about the winner being peeled off his bike at the end. :shock:0
