"Scrap speed cameras now"- PS in the Telegraph

dynohub · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

Comments are up!:

What a load of rubbish - how can you publish this kind of guff without giving some comment. This is just opinionated claptrap, no evidence, just trying to stir up trouble. Of course it will appeal to those who let the car control them instead of the reverse. This writer should be made to attend road traffic accidents with the ambulance service until he can see the error of his ways. Of course it is the driver, not speed itself which is the problem- you only have to walk the roads any housing estate to see car drivers using mobile phones, speeding, feeding kids, badly parking, jumping traffic signals ,pub car parks full ,etc. But-until these people can learn to control themselves, a camera system is one of the best ways to identify these culprits.
Posted by r sharp on June 23, 2007 4:46 PM
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This guy is a complete fruitcake! Why on earth are the DT giving him space? His views don't seem to be based on any evidence whatsoever and patronise the intelligence of the average motorist. I'm a motorist and would like to see many more cameras to deter speeding - speeding drivers are a menace and a danger to all of us. And so are Smith's views.
Posted by Keith Hemmings on June 23, 2007 7:47 PM

What a jaundiced view this man has. The answer isn't to stop the Police looking for rapists and murderers, so they can educate drivers. The correct application of technology has got to be the best way to manage the millions of car journeys that take place every day.
Posted by Annette Klass on June 23, 2007 9:24 AM

Oh good grief, not ____ _______. The man who's drawn loads on interesting graphs on his website that "prove" that speed cameras kill people. What qualifications does this chap have again?
Posted by Lucy Benjamin on June 23, 2007 8:53 PM

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your obsessive hatred of Spith does your case no favours and probably aids his I'm afraid. Your quotes above made me look at the Torygraph site (something I would normally shun) - even being generous to the "anti-Spith" viewpoint I made the posts (as currently up) as 21 anti-Spith, 4 neutral/nobut/yesbut and 30 pro-spith.

Isn't this sort of selective reporting the very thing people are complaining about Spith doing?

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

So bobby lied about the source and then lied about the result.

Bobby, meet banjo, I just know you guys are gonna get along just fine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is a form of research. How else are you supposed to gauge public opinion but with a poll?

And the result was correct when I looked at it. You have since had it "doctored", and it's not the first time that you've done exactly that with an online poll. That is blatant dishonesty and it sums you up extremely well. Don't like the facts, pretend that the facts are different. A warped and twisted view of reality.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Isn't this sort of selective reporting the very thing people are complaining about Spith doing? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You say selective, I say representative.

I noticve there are no responses from the pro-speeding posters with regard to the questions about Spith's qualifications, training, experience, independent experts or forum moderation.

For instance, if a man allows posts on his forum that "joke" about killing cyclists, in what sense can he then call himself a "road safety ecpert"?

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> And the result was correct when I looked at it. You have since had it "doctored", <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hang on, you claimed that this was a good source to prove speed cameras are unpopular.

If you are now claiming that the poll can be easily twisted....

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bobby Lightcycles
It is a form of research. How else are you supposed to gauge public opinion but with a poll?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It clearly doesn't know much about research, does it? [;)]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

dynohub · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Isn't this sort of selective reporting the very thing people are complaining about Spith doing? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You say selective, I say representative.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't insult my intelligence! You have selected quotes which agree with your own view and ignored all others - exactly what you have accused others of.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbookI noticve there are no responses from the pro-speeding posters with regard to the questions about Spith's qualifications, training, experience, independent experts or forum moderation.

For instance, if a man allows posts on his forum that "joke" about killing cyclists, in what sense can he then call himself a "road safety ecpert"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The above is just distraction and red herring as regards my point. How do you expect to win the argument against Spith and co when you stoop to this level.

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> And the result was correct when I looked at it. You have since had it "doctored", <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hang on, you claimed that this was a good source to prove speed cameras are unpopular.

If you are now claiming that the poll can be easily twisted....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I didn't say "easily". Very few people are as neurotically determined as you. And pro-camera people are the only ones who twist these polls; anti-camera people have no need to.

Just because the majority want something, it doesn't automatically make it right. But your dogged refusal to admit that most people don't like cameras just contributes to your image as a rabid madman who's not prepared to give a millimetre.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> exactly what you have accused others of. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nope, I accused the pro-speeding posts of ignoring questions.

Sorry Dyno, you've got your knickers in a twist over misreading what I said.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> your dogged refusal to admit that most people don't like cameras <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've posted evidence that the public support cameras.

You claimed you had evidence that proved the opposite, and then admitted the evidence is worthless.

And making up silly prosecution stories is a bit desperate, even for you.

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dynohub

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Isn't this sort of selective reporting the very thing people are complaining about Spith doing? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You say selective, I say representative.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't insult my intelligence! You have selected quotes which agree with own view and ignored all others - exactly what you have accused others of.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbookI noticve there are no responses from the pro-speeding posters with regard to the questions about Spith's qualifications, training, experience, independent experts or forum moderation.

For instance, if a man allows posts on his forum that "joke" about killing cyclists, in what sense can he then call himself a "road safety ecpert"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The above is just distraction and red herring as regards my point. How do you expect to win the argument against Spith and co when you stoop to this level.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[^]

It could have been (but happens not to be) that Spinny's point of view was entirely correct, but his ultra-belligerent and underhand style of "debate" would still alienate almost everyone. He shoots himself and his case in the foot with almost every word.

rothbook · June 2007

My case doesn't have a foot.

I showed public support fo cameras.

You were invited to prove otherwise, and you failed.

Unless you have a shred of proof to back up your claims it's clear you make stuff up.

I never claimed the quotes were representative, I just said the quotes are up, but whilst we're on the subject, has Dyno or bobby ever asked Sm1th the questions he repeatedly refuses to answer?

For instance, how does a computer repair man suddenly overnight become a "road safety expert"?

Was it like one of those American websites where you pay to become a Lord?

Mmmmm?

_Bonj_ · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bobby Lightcycles
It is a form of research. How else are you supposed to gauge public opinion but with a poll?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It clearly doesn't know much about research, does it? [;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You clearly don't know much about mature, adult debate if you feel the need to resort to childish personal little digs.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> You clearly don't know much about mature, adult debate if you feel the need to resort to childish personal little digs. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you feel horrified at Flying Monkey saying that bobby's grasp on research is rather weak, it's strange that you remain silent on bobby saying I'm mentally ill.

I guess selective outrage is so much more convenient, mmm?

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

Childish personal little digs are entirely the only sane reaction to the irritating childish trolling from the supporters of the pathetic ponytail. The guy is a massively capacious arse, deal with it...

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

_Bonj_ · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

Childish personal little digs are entirely the only sane reaction to the irritating childish trolling from the supporters of the pathetic ponytail. The guy is a massively capacious arse, deal with it...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The only reason I can see though that you think he's a troll is that he's got a different viewpoint to yours.

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

bobby saying I'm mentally ill
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know whether you are or not, as I've never met you. But your online activities tend to suggest something along those lines. What would you say that they suggest? Is it anything like normal to devote so much time and effort to insulting and campaigning against one person?

It's been years now, and it's been ceaseless. Something's not right is it?

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by _Bonj_

The only reason I can see though that you think he's a troll is that he's got a different viewpoint to yours.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's no good. I've already said that to him. It's true of course, as he well knows. But it hasn't stopped him, so I'm now ignoring him. (Anyone who really thought someone else was a troll would do just that, rather than keep replying to them and calling them a troll.)

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

On a related note, when the ponytail himself turned up here a while ago, he was full of himself that he'd found a lecturer at a minor university, who specialised in a completely different area, and who'd written an article on speed cameras in an Australian right-wing think-tank's membership magazine. This was big news on his website. Smithy was absolutely convinced that this was the 'academic credibility' he'd been looking for. I did try to explain to him that academic credibility is not 'anything written by an academic' (or this post would be just as credible) but based on peer-reviewed articles in reputable journals. He did not appear to understand the concept.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Jaded · June 2007

To see the capacious arse in action see his latest PR:

"PR512: Last chance to sign 'Scrap Speed Cameras' petition

news: Embargo 00:01am Tuesday 26th June 2007

The famous official 'Scrap Speed Cameras' petition from the Safe Speed campaign
closes at midnight tonight. (note embargo - that's Midnight Tuesday)"

Calling your own petition "famous" and "official" - now that is laughable, isn't it!

Putting an embargo on a Press Release and then putting the PR on the website before the embargo time - Doh!

Explaining to these thicko journalists and editors that "00:01am Tuesday 26th June 2007" is "Midnight Tuesday" - which it isn't!

Still, at least he didn't use the word 'belies' wrongly again. [:D]

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by _Bonj_

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Flying_Monkey

Childish personal little digs are entirely the only sane reaction to the irritating childish trolling from the supporters of the pathetic ponytail. The guy is a massively capacious arse, deal with it...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The only reason I can see though that you think he's a troll is that he's got a different viewpoint to yours.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Really? Would you like to summarise my viewpoint on speed cameras for me, so that I can check...?

I think you'll find that what I am against is this board being infested with safespeed twerps, pretending to be 'road safety experts' or policemen (as we've had before), posting intellectually insulting twaddle, and then getting all upset when they are rumbled...

If you think this twaddle is worth dealing with, bonj, then that's up to you but, much as I love you and your funny little ways, your record on understanding evidence and argument is not so hot, is it? So 'Mr Lightcycles' probably shouldn't get too excited about your support... for as long as he decides to hang around here, which shouldn't be too much longer now, one hopes.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

I never claimed the quotes were representative, I just said the quotes are up, but whilst we're on the subject, has Dyno or bobby ever asked Sm1th the questions he repeatedly refuses to answer?

For instance, how does a computer repair man suddenly overnight become a "road safety expert"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't care less. I really couldn't, otherwise I would ask him. Why does he need qualifications? He's not going for a job. What he actually says, and the research and proof that he uses, is infinitely more important. The only reason you keep banging on about bits of paper and what he used to do is that you can't find fault with what he actually comes up with (except for one old page). If he really was as barking as you make out, you could just laugh at his research, without needing to even raise qualifications et al.

Anyway, as I've already asked: Why do you hate him so much? What is it about the Safe Speed campaign that irks you so much? Do you disagree that safety is what PS is aiming for?

Jaded · June 2007

It's not proof, it's supposition; selective analysis and evidence chosen to fit the theory.

It's crap science.

It definitely isn't Road Safety.

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Bobby Lightcycles · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jaded

Calling your own petition "famous" and "official" - now that is laughable, isn't it!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's the official Safe Speed petition, because it was started by the founder of Safe Speed. Which part are you having problems with?

And the word "famous" is always going to be subjective. But if fame is your yardstick for worthiness then Paul Smith is doing miles better than anyone here.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jaded
Putting an embargo on a Press Release and then putting the PR on the website before the embargo time - Doh!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It's perfectly normal for embargoed PRs to appear in the public domain. You're only having a go because you don't like its content.

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

It's absolute drivel as research. It's finding facts to fit an ideological position. Even if I supported the ideas, I'd be embarassed by the techniques. Why not ask him why he's utterly failed to get his 'reasearch' into any peer-reviewed publication?

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You have since had it "doctored", and it's not the first time that you've done exactly that with an online poll.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And just how did this person "doctor" these results?

Which other ones are you suggesting that he /she "doctored"?

Such an accusation requires to be substantiated.

I await the reply with bated (note - not held) breath.

Edited -
PS - it appears 80% are in the "Yes" camp now.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Jaded · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bobby Lightcycles

It's the official Safe Speed petition, because it was started by the founder of Safe Speed. Which part are you having problems with?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Press Release doesn't say "official Safe Speed petition".

It says "The famous official 'Scrap Speed Cameras' petition from the Safe Speed campaign"

You think those are the same?

Oh, and when is midnight, Tuesday? You forgot to comment on that bit.

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Mornin' Cunobelin. And a fine one it is too.
I see you've done the rounds this morning. Did you give them the soup bones I left at the back door yesterday?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thank you for your generosity.

The charges are doing well, although they are reluctant to come out in such wet weather - something about the rain on their little laptops.

Still its brighter this afternoon, and I am sure I heard some tapping away, but it could be Marvin's hooves as he chases and molests the goats again or the clatter of keyboards I will have to check the goats later.

PS - I was going to put baby elephant instead of goat, but thought that the molestation of juvenile elephants might not be appreciated by some of the more delicate and feminine forummers (especially Arch)

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

dynohub · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

has Dyno or bobby ever asked Sm1th the questions he repeatedly refuses to answer?

For instance, how does a computer repair man suddenly overnight become a "road safety expert"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why on earth would I want to do that? - life is far too short - I read the last thread on the subject on here months ago - I'm certainly not going elsewhere just to repeat it [:)]

Tourist Tony · June 2007

I have been away at York riding my bike. It was a weekend of mixed weather, but good company and an enjoyable time was had.
Any other cyclists here?

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

MattBlackBigBoysBMX · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

Any other cyclists here?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Me, Me Me!
Can we campaign to get rid of those cycle lanes that island off from the road for a few yards, then join back up with the traffic pointing straight at them!?!

Bloody lethal!!!

Wheelies ARE cool.

Cretin · June 2007

Its hilarious how a section of the forum reserved for 'serious discussion of cycling issues' (or words to that effect) can be hijacked by about five posters obsessed with one man.

This place really is suffering from woefully poor administration. Any other forum would have issued severe warnings now against some of the authors and their invective.

"Scrap speed cameras now"- PS in the Telegraph

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