20 limits - legally enforceable

_Bonj_ · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Someone posted something about them not being enforceable,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just shows why you need to read the "evidence" - have we convinced you yet of the legality (and enforceability) of 20 mph zones?

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Not quite. Slightly. I'm in two minds to tell you the truth. Previously I can't see why they wouldn't be enforceable, but I can't see why someone would post about them not being, and why the police would put out a statement trying to make an example of someone who broke it, that strikes me as the type of thing they would do if they weren't enforceable.

oh, and you appear to have had me banned yet again for disagreeing with speed limits. That's nice. It really is pointless though.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> but I can't see why someone would post about them not being <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Allow me to reply to this.

Banjo, the interweb is full of nutjobs and raving frothers who post garbage and claim it's true in the face of all the clear evidence to the contrary.

But then I guess you of all people know this...

Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

Where on earth does the idea that they ARE enforceable come from?
The 20mph signs are basically just a request, not an order.

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Er, the Highway Code? As shown here, complete with a pretty picture so even bonj can understand it.
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Er... it says they are MOSTLY prohibitive. Doesn't say they ALL are.

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good grief, the teddy I knitted this week and stuffed with cotton wool has more brains than you...

Top heading on that page:

Traffic signs: Signs giving orders

Next line:

Signs with red circles are mostly prohibitive. Plates below signs qualify their message.

So, look at the top one again. Signs giving orders. 'Orders' must be obeyed.

Next line: 'mostly prohibitive'. This means that most of the orders are prohibitive - telling you you must not do something - "no right turn", "no overtaking" etc. However, some are telling you that you must do something - "give priority to oncoming vehicles", "stop". These are not prohibitive, as they are positive instructions, but they are still orders that must be obeyed.

In fact I suspect you could interpret a speed limit as either - it either means you must not travel at over that speed, or that you must travel within it. Either way, it's still an order. And not open to your own special brand of interpretation.

Just to make it clear, when you see a black number, inside a red border, it's called a 'speed limit', and you must not travel faster than that speed. Otherwise you are what we call 'speeding', and the police can do you for it. Maybe you should brush up on your Highway Code. Or get a brain. Or preferably, both.

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ScumOfTheRoad

no court in the land would entertain a defence of "I read somewhere on te Internet that someone said I could go a 30mph and I wouldn't get done".

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It would give everyone a good laugh though. [:p]

dondare · June 2007

I originally suggested that 20 mph limits might not be enforceable. (Tho' someone else may have made that point as well.)

Reference to the highway code does not prove it one way or t'other; a lot of the HC is advisory.

Some 20 mph limits probably aren't enforceable, but the links given by SOTR clearly indicate that since 1999 the legal mechanism for creating 20 mph limits has been in place and therefore they could be.

I am grateful to SOTR for furthering my education.

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

ScumOfTheRoad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I am grateful to SOTR for furthering my education.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don, don't put it like that. This is only a cycling forum, for goodness sake. I just Googled.

dondare · June 2007

Using Google you can find anything. I'd found a reference to a case in which 20 mph limits were shown not to be legally enforceable, but perhaps that pre-dated 1999.

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

CometGirl · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

Where on earth does the idea that they ARE enforceable come from?
The 20mph signs are basically just a request, not an order.

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CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Er, the Highway Code? As shown here, complete with a pretty picture so even bonj can understand it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Er... it says they are MOSTLY prohibitive. Doesn't say they ALL are.

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CyclingIsPermittedAlongThisFootpath GenericPath

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ROFLMAO!

You complete prat. Yes, those are "mostly prohibitive" (telling you NOT to do something) and a few are "instructive" (telling you you MUST do something).

It doesn't mean speed limits generally are "mostly" prohibitive.

But thanks for the giggle.

CometGirl · June 2007

Ah, I see Arch beat me to it. Still, probably bears repeating in case he didn't get it the first time...

ScumOfTheRoad · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

Using Google you can find anything. I'd found a reference to a case in which 20 mph limits were shown not to be legally enforceable, but perhaps that pre-dated 1999.

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You MIGHT have come across a case on speed limits on private land,
for instance shopping centres.
Such limits are not (I'm no expert here) enforcable in the same way as those on the public roads.

Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

Ah, I see Arch beat me to it. Still, probably bears repeating in case he didn't get it the first time...
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But you put it so much more succinctly, dear![;)]

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arch

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

Ah, I see Arch beat me to it. Still, probably bears repeating in case he didn't get it the first time...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

But you put it so much more succinctly, dear![;)]

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.
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When cometgirl has to start dealing with estate agents, she'll be even more succinct. [;)]

_Bonj_ · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

Using Google you can find anything. I'd found a reference to a case in which 20 mph limits were shown not to be legally enforceable

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ah, so they're NOT enforceable, and there's proof of it. I knew it.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> there's proof of it. I knew it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Again using Google I found a source that says:

"Bonj blows goats-I have pictures"

Must be true, on the interweb innit?

Did it end badly Banjo?

I mean, did she want kids or summat...

Archcp · June 2007

I'm so out of touch. I always thought, when you saw a speed limit sign you should avoid exceeding that speed limit. I didn't realise it was de riguer to google for a loophole so as to avoid obeying it. What's wrong with just driving at less than 20 for the duration of the limit?

So old fashioned, I know...

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

CometGirl · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by _Bonj_

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

Using Google you can find anything. I'd found a reference to a case in which 20 mph limits were shown not to be legally enforceable

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ah, so they're NOT enforceable, and there's proof of it. I knew it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Using Google, you can find people who have "proof" that they can survive without food or water.

I suggest you try it.

We've been through this. All speed limits (other than on certain private roads) are enforceable, and until you recognise this, you're not safe driving anything that doesn't have "Fisher Price" embossed on the side and a space underneath for your feet.

notanotherusername · June 2007

Could there be a new offence of googling whilst driving?

Ravenbait · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl
Using Google, you can find people who have "proof" that they can survive without food or water.

I suggest you try it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Excellent. Prana metabolism. About the level of credulous muppetry required for this sort of discussion.

Sam

The cross product of Tank Girl and Ellen Ripley:

http://ravenfamily.org
"You might remember that 'annoyed' is my natural state!"

http://gentlemencyclists.org/clubhouse
"Ya'd think we could just attract ants, like normal people."

Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by notanotherusername

Could there be a new offence of googling whilst driving?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not quite, but almost:

http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/forum/topi ... _ID=133759

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

dondare · June 2007

Is someone calling themselves Bonj and being stupid for a joke?

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

Archcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

Is someone calling themselves Bonj and being stupid for a joke?

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If it's a fake, it's a damn good one - they've got the vacuous argumentativness just right...

If I had a baby elephant, it could help me clean the car. If I had a car.

Tourist Tony · June 2007

Shall I dig out the websites again? Those ones that prove that the Earth is flat (and square) and orbited by all other celestial bodies?

Or just rehash Hydroplates.....

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Simon L2 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

Ah, I see Arch beat me to it. Still, probably bears repeating in case he didn't get it the first time...
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he won't get it the fifth time.

There's a little drama-ette played out on Tower Bridge these days. Motorbikes and yours truly gather at the northern end. Light turns green. Motorbikes roar off, followed by your h'mble and ob'd'nt servant. Motorbikes deccellerate rapidly except for the dopey guy on the scooter. Motorbike riders and yours truly exchange knowing grins...

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Motorbikes deccellerate rapidly except for the dopey guy on the scooter. Motorbike riders and yours truly exchange knowing grins... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't understand this, why decelerate?

Poppadoppaloppa Copper · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Motorbikes deccellerate rapidly except for the dopey guy on the scooter. Motorbike riders and yours truly exchange knowing grins... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't understand this, why decelerate?
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Because speed kills.

Oddballcp · June 2007

Because of 20 mph enforced speed limit on that section?

That's a guess.

http://victoryatseaonline.com/war/kellys.html

rothbook · June 2007

Oh. Sorry, as you were.

Mystery Shopper · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Poppadoppaloppa Copper

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Motorbikes deccellerate rapidly except for the dopey guy on the scooter. Motorbike riders and yours truly exchange knowing grins... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't understand this, why decelerate?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Because speed kills.
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I don't trust you at all. You don't have enough posts.

er...

What's in my trolley?

20 limits - legally enforceable

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