Interesting Phenomenon

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

One messageboarder who talks sense.Thankyou rgisme.[:)]

Those that do things deliberately using their cars as weapons are criminals with a criminal mentality who get their kicks from brutal behaviour against others weaker and more vulnerable than themselves. That also has nothing to do with RLJing.

It's rare.

Hackbike 8 Commuting Debut 09/09/2006Dawes Audax 2006 New 20/09/2006 

 Cycle Commuting since 1981 

Cycling Proficiency Test 24 May 1977 (30 years ago)

 Ride to work part 1 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/ypjapc
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domtyler · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rgisme
The idea that 'motorists' as a group are aggressive towards cyclists because they RLJ or break other rules is complete and utter bollocks, IMO. The vast majority are not deliberately aggressive at all, and to the extent that they endanger cyclists through their manner of driving it is due simply to carelessnes and poor driving skills. They do not want to have an accident. It would spoil their day, cause delay and risk loss of their NCB. To the extent that RLJing does cause them some irritation it is not because they have a rigid rod up their arse that makes them condemn all law breaking, since they know they break laws when they can get away with it too, it is simply that if they did have an accident as a result of an RLJ it would cause them inconvenience. Perhaps they also think it is a bit unfair that they have to wait, along with all the other 'unfair' things they have to put up with like ever increasing taxes and fines that also irritate them.

Those that do things deliberately using their cars as weapons are criminals with a criminal mentality who get their kicks from brutal behaviour against others weaker and more vulnerable than themselves. That also has nothing to do with RLJing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Some truth here but you are forgetting the huge contingent (~ 2 million in the UK) of illegal drivers on our roads who have nothing to lose as they are driving cars they that don't give a toss about (not theirs, extremely low value, stolen etc.), have no license or insurance and have little chance of ever being caught as the vehicle is not registered. They would not stop if they were in a collision and tend to drive extremely aggressively and selfishly with scant regard for the law.

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Porridge not Petrol
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Cheap Glass Bongs

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

Sounds like the average cyclist.[:p]

Hackbike 8 Commuting Debut 09/09/2006Dawes Audax 2006 New 20/09/2006 

 Cycle Commuting since 1981 

Cycling Proficiency Test 24 May 1977 (30 years ago)

 Ride to work part 1 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/ypjapc
Ride to work part 2 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/2jfagu
Ride to work part 3 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/2jcldv 

How not to lock a bike. http://i14.tinypic.com/52355zr.jpg

graham_g · June 2007

This board is too London-centric; no-one here in Brum or any of my relatives (none of whom live the south-east) has every mentioned cyclists jumping red lights.

Please note that we still get the same stupid behaviour from cyclists - it's just that the empty excuses that a driver might use are slightly different from those in London who seem to be so aware of it.

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

It's all I get from motorists at work Graham.Cyclists RLJ blah blah blah.

Hackbike 8 Commuting Debut 09/09/2006Dawes Audax 2006 New 20/09/2006 

 Cycle Commuting since 1981 

Cycling Proficiency Test 24 May 1977 (30 years ago)

 Ride to work part 1 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/ypjapc
Ride to work part 2 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/2jfagu
Ride to work part 3 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/2jcldv 

How not to lock a bike. http://i14.tinypic.com/52355zr.jpg

graham_g · June 2007

I gather that from my own acquaintances in London (and I've seen how endemic the practice is myself). I was just trying to point out that driver behaviour elsewhere is pretty much the same despite the fact that RLJ is not something they see often if at all - so by that reasoning Dom has a point; i.e. it doesn't actually make a difference to behaviour as it's just an excuse.

My tuppence worth on this one (I rarely open the RLJ threads, let alone contribute!!)

dondare · June 2007

Why give them any excuse?

This sig is under construction.

cupofteacp · June 2007

I think you'll find that in 2006 almost 6 million offenses were commited by motorists.

In other word 1 in 6 drivers were caught last year, obviously the only reason they broke the law was because of cyclists.

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

dondare · June 2007

Far more than 6 million probably. But they excuse themselves that.

This sig is under construction.

Buggi · June 2007

Hackbike, i actually live Solihull side and commute to Warwick so i'm not sure what Birmingham City Centre streets are like. in Solihull you don't really get RLJing. most problems with drivers is coz they are careless and not aware you're there, and some annoyed your holding them up. however, i did have an altercation with an Aston Martin driver the other week who deliberately drove at me because he didn't like me in primary position at a junction, but to be fair, altho i've had plenty of near misses thanks to careless drivers, that's the only intentional act of "attempted murder" i've had since starting commuting to work in Warwick four years ago.

like i said, most of the problems here in Solihull are just careless driving which is why i think drumming in the cyclists rights during the "learning to drive" period would help. i really do think they should have tests on how to behave round cyclists, not just one or two questions, but whole tests dedicated to it, and ongoing then have proper laws and sentencing specifically aimed cyclist/driver situations. it's the only way you're gonna change attitudes. i don't remember one single question on my test about cyclists? the idea above about making people ride a bike when they take their test is a good one.

in London, i don't reckon it's a tit for tat thing over RLJing, it's just people trying to get where they are going and getting irate coz they are stuck in traffic and can't get there, clock ticking etc, someone holds them up and the frustration gets the better of them. It's not an RLJ problem, it's a conjestion problem. it's probably the same in Birmingham in rush hour but someone else will have to fill you in on that one. it's the bottle neck effect i think

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To infinity... and beyond!
my epic adventure: www.action.org.uk/~Antonia

Hackbike 6 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cupoftea

I think you'll find that in 2006 almost 6 million offenses were commited by motorists.

In other word 1 in 6 drivers were caught last year, obviously the only reason they broke the law was because of cyclists.

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Stop trying to justify RLJing.

Hackbike 8 Commuting Debut 09/09/2006Dawes Audax 2006 New 20/09/2006 

 Cycle Commuting since 1981 

Cycling Proficiency Test 24 May 1977 (30 years ago)

 Ride to work part 1 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/ypjapc
Ride to work part 2 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/2jfagu
Ride to work part 3 of 8 http://tinyurl.com/2jcldv 

How not to lock a bike. http://i14.tinypic.com/52355zr.jpg

Paul Lavery · June 2007

Oh dear, me thread seems to have lost it's way! Not sure about angry drivers, looks like there's a few angry cyclists knocking about too!

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Only ever regret the things you didn't do!

overmars · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paul Lavery

Oh dear, me thread seems to have lost it's way! Not sure about angry drivers, looks like there's a few angry cyclists knocking about too!

________________________________________________

Only ever regret the things you didn't do!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, they should just buy a car.

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The obstacle is the path

BentMikey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paul Lavery

Oh dear, me thread seems to have lost it's way! Not sure about angry drivers, looks like there's a few angry cyclists knocking about too!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well we are the same breed!

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

dondare · June 2007

That is exactly right. Cars overtake dangerously, go to fast and run red lights for the same reason that bikes use the pavement, jump red lights or go along one-way streets the wrong way: because they're being controlled by humans.

This sig is under construction.

Jacomus-rides-Gen · June 2007

Drivers do stupid things like the OP mentioned, and others like the wierd accelerate! Brake! Accelerate! thing almost all cars do when crawling in traffic, why not just trundle forward at a constant speed?

I think that the overriding reason for this is that humans as animals are not designed to travel that fast, especially with so little effort. Taking cyclists as the obvious HPV choice (we are a cycling forum after all!), we all know just how much effort is required in physical terms to do 30mph, to accelerate from standing or back up to cruising speed if we have to drastically slow down.

Cyclists know that the smoother you perform braking, accelerating and turning, the easier it is.

Of course, this doesn't matter when all you have to do is move your feet a few inches from pedal to pedal etc.

Secondly, and this ties in with my first point, when you know you have the ability to do something, and something prevents you from achieving it, it is easy to get frustrated. Especially if you have no conception of time.

Drivers are used to being able to bomb down motorways at 70mph plus, tear along a-roads at 50-70mph, if you let them do that, then suddenly present them with a situation where they are physically unable to make that kind of progress, they have no idea what is happening.

If they lose 2 minutes at a red light, suddenly the world is ending, acts of god start raining down, apocalyptic horsemen rampage... and then the light goes green - they MUST escape this hell that has risen, as fast as possible, and HOLY SH*T THERE IS A CYCLIST GOING AT 18MPH. THEY'LL NEVER MAKE IT. I'VE GOT TO SAVE MYSELF!!!!

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Quote: "25mph is pretty fast when you aren't wearing a car..."

dondare · June 2007

"Drivers do stupid things like the OP mentioned, and others like the wierd accelerate! Brake! Accelerate! thing almost all cars do when crawling in traffic, why not just trundle forward at a constant speed?"

Drivers don't leave a gap between themselves and the car in front because if they do someone else will cut in front.

This sig is under construction.

Jacomus-rides-Gen · June 2007

I mean the unneccesary jumping forwards they do, I'm not talking about the gap they leave. You can leave just as small a gap by all trundling forward at the same speed as you can by letting the car in front get a a meter ahead and then jumping forwards into the gap.

And no comments about using clutches, I am also a driver, it is not at all difficult to creep forwards without lurching at the car in front.

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Quote: "25mph is pretty fast when you aren't wearing a car..."

dondare · June 2007

Only when everyone is trundling smoothly. In real traffic, sooner or later a gap will appear, then the motorist will floor the accelerator to close it, then brake sharply to avoid running into the car in front. The one behind does the same thing and so on down the line. Any attempt to smooth things out again will actually result in someone cutting in.
Stop-start-accelerate-brake is a phenomenon that occurs when a road has passed it's carrying capacity, either because people are trying to drive too fast or because there is simply too much traffic on it.
Or so I've been lead to believe...

"da sapienti et addetur ei sapientia doce iustum et festinabit accipere."

domtyler · June 2007

One point which is rarely if ever mentioned on this forum is that motorists are rarely nice to each other either, they do not save all their hate and vitriol for cyclists.

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Porridge not Petrol
________
Suzuki jimny history

Jacomus-rides-Gen · June 2007

Good point domtyler.

I think it would be fair to say that many cars in very heavy traffic will give a confident respectful cyclist a bit of room, certainly more than they would give another motorist.

I often find cycling down the middle along embankment in the evening (because I refuse to gutter crawl) I tanke a relaxed cruise through the jam, what the point in rushing to get another 3mph? I do my fast riding when it opens out after Westminister. Quite a lot of cars will notice me and move slightly to give me a bit more space to slip through - not something they do for bikers and scooterers on the whole.

I allways try and give a little wave of thanks, on the basis that they are likely to be commuters there at roughly the same time ever day, much like myself. I am very distinctive on the bike, and I reckon a few drivers recognise me and make an effort for me.

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Quote: "25mph is pretty fast when you aren't wearing a car..."

Interesting Phenomenon

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