Oh Maggie how I loathed thee.....

Asterixcp · June 2007

Prior to the dictatorship and ensuing war, were not the Argentine people rather pro-British?

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

mjones · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Prior to the dictatorship and ensuing war, were not the Argentine people rather pro-British?

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..
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This being demonstrated by the huge cheering crowds in Buenos Aires immediately after the invasion?

Unknown · June 2007

Being generally pro British and wanting to have the Falklands are not mutually incompatible.

mjones · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

Being generally pro British and wanting to have the Falklands are not mutually incompatible.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hmmm. I rather feel that being generally pro-British is not compatible with starting a war against Britain! Would seem a tough form of love!

It is of course possible that there were 'stop the war' protests in Argentina, however the Falkland Islanders' new rulers, the people redcogs and noodley would have negotiated with, would have shot them..

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mjones

It is of course possible that there were 'stop the war' protests in Argentina, however the Falkland Islanders' new rulers, the people redcogs and noodley would have negotiated with, would have shot them..
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One hopes that the military regime would have shot the protesters discreetly so as not to upset regcogs and noodley.

Noodley · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mjones

It is of course possible that there were 'stop the war' protests in Argentina, however the Falkland Islanders' new rulers, the people redcogs and noodley would have negotiated with, would have shot them..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

One hopes that the military regime would have shot the protesters discreetly so as not to upset regcogs and noodley.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Christ, I could think of a few bloody soapboxers I would shoot, and no need for discretion [;)][:D]

Might serve as a much needed reminder to others...

tony bell · June 2007

In 1977, the Labour government quelled Argentinian uppityness about the Falklands by increasing navy patrols in the south Atlantic. I think it was Antony Crosland who was the Foreign Secretary at the time, bot quite sure. In fact, I think Crosland died that same year.
(strokes chin) Hmmmm. Those pesky Argentinians...

www.Tony-Bell.co.uk

Unknown · June 2007

'allo Tony, where you bin?

Noodley · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NickM

'allo Tony, where you bin?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

he's been helping me and redcogs with the streamers and balloons. [;)][:D]

Ian Loveday · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One hopes that the military regime would have shot the protesters discreetly so as not to upset regcogs and noodley<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I believe the discreet method involved tossing people out of aircraft flying over the sea. Unfortunatly while it was discreet in Argentina it was rather high profile in Chile were the corpses washed up.

www.sheffieldphoenix.org.uk

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ian Loveday

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One hopes that the military regime would have shot the protesters discreetly so as not to upset regcogs and noodley<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I believe the discreet method involved tossing people out of aircraft flying over the sea. Unfortunatly while it was discreet in Argentina it was rather high profile in Chile were the corpses washed up.

www.sheffieldphoenix.org.uk

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No doubt it could have been <s>spun</s> explained to the more credulous that the regime was offering free swimming lessons.

Russell_john · June 2007

... I remember being in the sixth form when the war kicked off. It was all gung ho and 'kill the Argies' until the soldiers/sailors started coming home without their arms and legs. Then it all went a bit quiet for a while. No doubt seeing a ship go up in flames quietens the mood of a nation somewhat.

In many ways Thatcher may well have been one nasty piece of work but she knew how to 'work the crowd'. Love her or loathe her it's hard not to admit she really took this nation by its collective cohonas and drove it the way she wanted it to go. Blair, for all his hand gestures, spin-doctoring and general trickery was never a patch on olde Mrs T.

Blimey ain't it great to be able to speak about Blair in the (almost) past tense. Roll on the end of the month.

are they wibbin me Centurwion?

simoncp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Not that i had really forgotton of course...but like all thoroughly unpleasant people i had pushed this specimen to the back of my consciouness...last nights modern history of Britian TV programme brought it all back [V][:(!]

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Of course you loathed Maggie, Gary. That's what lefties do with political leaders. They love them to bits or loathe them, or love them to bits and then loathe them. There's nothing a lefty likes to do more than to indulge in hero worship or bitter hatred, except perhaps for feeling let down and betrayed.

mr_hippo · June 2007

My political colours? Transparent - I am apolitical (politically neutral). So I have no axe to grind with any party. It appears to me that in Parliament that the opposition opposes the government on certain issues not because it isn't a good idea but because 'we are the opposition' - one step forward and two back!
Was the government of the day right to smash the unions? Trade unions are a good idea in improving conditions in the workplace and I do not think anyone will disagree with that. When it came to pay, that's different! When unions demanded and got for factory workers and got pay rises of 5%, where did the money come from? The company can do one of two things - put up prices or lay workers off and the unions say 'No lay offs'. So the company puts the prices up. Others workers see that retail prices have risen, the spending power has fallen and so they want more money to compensate and the vicious cycle starts all over again. OK, I am over simplifying things but you get the general idea.
Another factor was the change from œ.s.d. to œ.p. I am not saying that decimalisation was a bad idea, just the way that it was worked out. Let's not have 240 pennies to the œ, let's have 100. Before decimalisation, if the baker put the price of a loaf up by 1d (1/240th of a œ), people tutted but paid it. What would have been people's reactions if the price went up by 2.4d; "How much?, almost three pence, do you think, I'm made of money, I'll go somewhere else." Yes, we did have the half p, which was almost identical in value to the old penny (half p=1.2d) but prices tended not to go up by 0.5p but by 1p. It may have been better to say 120 old pennies equals 100 new pennies and that one new pound would be the equivalent of one old pound so in effect the old ten bob becomes the new pound.

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 23/24 June: Update published: Monday 25 June

ankev1 · June 2007

Mr Hippo,

just so everybody is clear: there was only one Margaret Thatcher, OK?

BTW I think you've done a small typo on your pound relationship but, with hindsight it does seem a reasonable idea.

mr_hippo · June 2007

Thamks for pointing out that typo!

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 23/24 June: Update published: Monday 25 June

Unkraut · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tony bell

In 1977, the Labour government quelled Argentinian uppityness about the Falklands by increasing navy patrols in the south Atlantic. I think it was Antony Crosland who was the Foreign Secretary at the time, bot quite sure. In fact, I think Crosland died that same year.
(strokes chin) Hmmmm. Those pesky Argentinians...

www.Tony-Bell.co.uk
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It was David Owen of Social Democratic Party fame I believe. The interesting point is that Labour are usually pacifistic and unwilling to use force of arms in this case managed to avoid a conflict, whereas the Tories when it came to their turn failed and had to fight.

A former pastor I know who was living in Argentina at the time said that there were Argentines who hoped Britain would win, not because they didn't want the islands for Argentina, but because of what would have happened throughout Latin America if force had won the day.

Whatever you think of Mrs Thatcher, she acted with resolve to put the matter right, in stark contrast to those who wanted to negotiate or impose sanctions. Sanctions are a way of making it look as though you are doing something, when you are really doing nothing cf. Rhodesia. A negotiated settlement which left the islands in the hands of the junta would have been another Munich.

Asterixcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mr_hippo

My political colours? Transparent - I am apolitical (politically neutral). So I have no axe to grind with any party. It appears to me that in Parliament that the opposition opposes the government on certain issues not because it isn't a good idea but because 'we are the opposition' - one step forward and two back!
Was the government of the day right to smash the unions? Trade unions are a good idea in improving conditions in the workplace and I do not think anyone will disagree with that. Another factor was the change from œ.s.d. to œ.p. I am not saying that decimalisation was a bad idea, just the way that it was worked out. Let's not have 240 pennies to the œ, let's have 100. Before decimalisation, if the baker put the price of a loaf up by 1d (1/240th of a œ), people tutted but paid it. What would have been people's reactions if the price went up by 2.4d; "How much?, almost three pence, do you think, I'm made of money, I'll go somewhere else." Yes, we did have the half p, which was almost identical in value to the old penny (half p=1.2d) but prices tended not to go up by 0.5p but by 1p. It may have been better to say 120 old pennies equals 100 new pennies and that one new pound would be the equivalent of one old pound so in effect the old ten bob becomes the new pound.

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 23/24 June: Update published: Monday 25 June
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<s>..or just adopt the Euro? Roughly 2 thirds of a GBP.</s> No forget I said that, don't want awaken the UKIP tendency[;)]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When it came to pay, that's different! When unions demanded and got for factory workers and got pay rises of 5%, where did the money come from? The company can do one of two things - put up prices or lay workers off and the unions say 'No lay offs'. So the company puts the prices up. Others workers see that retail prices have risen, the spending power has fallen and so they want more money to compensate and the vicious cycle starts all over again. OK, I am over simplifying things but you get the general idea.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That depends whether you consider inflation is pushed by wage demands or price hikes. If prices rise, people want pay rises to match.

One of the big problems associated with unions was demarcation where it was impossible to get a worker in one union to do a job considered the preserve of workers in a different union. A simple example is where water pipes have to be earthed. Is that a plumbers job or one for sparks?

However, I used to allocate dock labour in the '70s at Harwich, Parkeston Quay. It was useful to know every dockers 'skill' in order not to upset other dockers. Strangely enough, the Union rep was far more prone to settling arguments and getting men back to work than raising contentious issues. In 7 years there, I cannot remember a single significant incidence of labour being withdrawn.

Dockworkers had a bad reputation due to the London docks and later Southampton. In the London docks the workers were indeed treated like trash due to the 'casual labour' system where they did not know from one day to the next if they would be working and therefore paid.

When a more enlightened management opened Felixstowe Docks with a permanent workforce, treated well, the industrial problems did not recur.

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

Gary Askwith · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simoncp

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Not that i had really forgotton of course...but like all thoroughly unpleasant people i had pushed this specimen to the back of my consciouness...last nights modern history of Britian TV programme brought it all back [V][:(!]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Of course you loathed Maggie, Gary. That's what lefties do with political leaders. They love them to bits or loathe them, or love them to bits and then loathe them. There's nothing a lefty likes to do more than to indulge in hero worship or bitter hatred, except perhaps for feeling let down and betrayed.
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I can assure you simon, old bean that I have never loved, liked, admired, respected, grudgingly acknowledged or even mildly tolerated any politician..left right centre or extreme... I have always veiwed them with an aloof contemptuous distain
As for being labelled a 'lefty'[:)]...sobeit..the population of your lefty catagory is, as we all know extremely wide..if fact i doubt if you could name more than 6 people on this forum who do not fall into that admirable (if only in opposistion to you) derogratory cluster
Maybe you should give us a list of your 'lefty 'characteristics, since so many of us unwittingly subscribe so we can judge for ourselves.......[:)][xx(]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

ankev1 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

[
That depends whether you consider inflation is pushed by wage demands or price hikes. If prices rise, people want pay rises to match.

Dockworkers had a bad reputation due to the London docks and later Southampton. In the London docks the workers were indeed treated like trash due to the 'casual labour' system where they did not know from one day to the next if they would be working and therefore paid.

When a more enlightened management opened Felixstowe Docks with a permanent workforce, treated well, the industrial problems did not recur.
Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ref your 1st point. True but they have to earn them.

The second point is also true. Treat people badly and they will act badly. Poor managers could not see that a contented workforce would pull the rug from under bloody minded union leaders.

And finally, espousal of the Euro and a sig line in French of all languages, probably means you should be banged up in the tower for the common good.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Maybe you should give us a list of your 'lefty 'characteristics, since so many of us unwittingly subscribe so we can judge for ourselves.......[:)][xx(]

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Surely this is worthy of a thread in its own right!![:D][:D][:D][;)]

Go on, do it!!

mr_hippo · June 2007

Asterix, "That depends whether you consider inflation is pushed by wage demands or price hikes."

That is rather like the chicken and the egg!

http://bangkokhippo.blogspot.com/

Ex-XXL weigh-in 23/24 June: Update published: Monday 25 June

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary Askwith

Maybe you should give us a list of your 'lefty 'characteristics, since so many of us unwittingly subscribe so we can judge for ourselves.......[:)][xx(]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Surely this is worthy of a thread in its own right!![:D][:D][:D][;)]

Go on, do it!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've started it. [:p]

jackhunt · June 2007

Has anyone mentioned how she used the Police as her own goon squad in order to crush the Miners Strike yet? Or having that good old fashioned dictator (and the world's only example of someone recovering from
Altziemer's)Pinochet over for tea.

I for one have a bottle of Krug waiting to be opened on her demise - 'Rejoice, rejoice' indeed.

redcogs · June 2007

Numerous times, but not necessarily on this thread. i still weep with anger when i see the tv footage of bullying Thatcherite company coppers, tooled up in protective riot gear, on horse back waving batons and shields, and then cracking the skulls of innocent working people fighting for their jobs, pits and communities wearing only teeshirts and jeans.

Some paying back to do.

please look up to the stars.. ***

Brains · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jackhunt

Has anyone mentioned how she used the Police as her own goon squad in order to crush the Miners Strike yet? Or having that good old fashioned dictator (and the world's only example of someone recovering from
Altziemer's)Pinochet over for tea.

I for one have a bottle of Krug waiting to be opened on her demise - 'Rejoice, rejoice' indeed.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Alzheimer's: Not only did Pinchet recover, so did Saunders (see Guinness trial). However Wilson and Regan only caught it imideatly they left power

Russell_john · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

Numerous times, but not necessarily on this thread. i still weep with anger when i see the tv footage of bullying Thatcherite company coppers, tooled up in protective riot gear, on horse back waving batons and shields, and then cracking the skulls of innocent working people fighting for their jobs, pits and communities wearing only teeshirts and jeans.

Some paying back to do.

please look up to the stars.. ***
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are they wibbin me Centurwion?

workers_united · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

Numerous times, but not necessarily on this thread. i still weep with anger when i see the tv footage of bullying Thatcherite company coppers, tooled up in protective riot gear, on horse back waving batons and shields, and then cracking the skulls of innocent working people fighting for their jobs, pits and communities wearing only teeshirts and jeans.

Some paying back to do.

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This will be the same poor miners who:
- would only allow their sons to get jobs in the mines (me and my brothers couldn't get in because we weren't part of the miners mafia)
- chose to strike against the nation when the oil crisis was already causing power cuts in essential services
- murdered an innocent miner in Wales because he didn't support the strike
- kick the heads in of the Police (shown in Andrew Marr's) program but normally edited out
- said they would bring down the democratically elected government.

I'm no Thatcher fan and don't forgive her for taking away benefits to 16 year olds and forcing them to sleep rough but the miners got (almost) all they deserved. It's just a pity it didn't happen sooner.

Asterixcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by workers_united

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

Numerous times, but not necessarily on this thread. i still weep with anger when i see the tv footage of bullying Thatcherite company coppers, tooled up in protective riot gear, on horse back waving batons and shields, and then cracking the skulls of innocent working people fighting for their jobs, pits and communities wearing only teeshirts and jeans.

Some paying back to do.

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This will be the same poor miners who:
- would only allow their sons to get jobs in the mines (me and my brothers couldn't get in because we weren't part of the miners mafia)
- chose to strike against the nation when the oil crisis was already causing power cuts in essential services
- murdered an innocent miner in Wales because he didn't support the strike
- kick the heads in of the Police (shown in Andrew Marr's) program but normally edited out
- said they would bring down the democratically elected government.

I'm no Thatcher fan and don't forgive her for taking away benefits to 16 year olds and forcing them to sleep rough but the miners got (almost) all they deserved. It's just a pity it didn't happen sooner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ah, but if they'd let you be a miner where would you be now?

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

sabreur · June 2007

Were these the same police who'd just been taunting the miners (who weren't receiving strike pay and therefore subsisting on benefits) by waving their overtime payments at them, in a manner reminiscent of "loadsamoney".

Yes violence was perpetrated by both sides and I fully deplore and decry this, but the police whose job is to uphold the law and maintain the peace (IIRC) were being used in an overtly political manner more akin to Blackshirts. There were other and better ways to police the strike, but confrontation was sought as it was a given theat the press would predominately use images showing the strikers in the role of villain, (and for those that didn't there was always the omnipresent threat of the D Notice).

The pits were threatened with closure because the mines were too expensive... and Thatcher had refused a a subsidy from the ECSC which would have meant that British coal would have been able to provide coal gratis, and pay the elctricity companies œ10.00 a ton for the privilege of taking it. The subsidy was refused because subsidies are evil, distort the marketplace and slacken workforces resolve... unless it's the subsidy for the Nuclear industry.

Given the straits that ex-mining towns have found themselves since the pit closures please show how closing the mines was a good thing

It's no sin to be born in the gutter...but a terrible sin to ride there

Oh Maggie how I loathed thee.....

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