Oh Maggie how I loathed thee.....

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Not that i had really forgotton of course...but like all thoroughly unpleasant people i had pushed this specimen to the back of my consciouness...last nights modern history of Britian TV programme brought it all back [V][:(!]

Also reminded me how fortune and fate favoured the old battle axe...without the bonanza of north sea oil, a batch of dud Argentinian bomb fuses, cartoon character enemies and spineless cabinet colleagues who knows what might have happened...?[V][:0]

( Wheeee...Firecracker among the Thatcherite-worship drones)[;)][8D]

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

ursus_major · June 2007

She was also helped by the poor standard of opposition to her.
Michael Foot, Tony Benn, Arthur Scargill, Neil Kinnock - four villages missing an idiot [:D]

Gears? What gears?
fgg1705
fgg2579
fgg3367
fgg4985

redcogs · June 2007

i am looking forward to the party when the bitch croaks. [:)][:)]

please look up to the stars.. ***

papercorn2000 · June 2007

I am practising my dance steps.

Her memoirs are a litany of bitter self-justification, score-settling and blaming of others. She hardly has a good word for anyone (she does seem to have had a genuine soft spot for Michael Foot - her idealogical opposite but she considered him to be a real gentlman).

God told me to skin you alive.
http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/

Melvil · June 2007

She was lucky, very lucky. Then again this country was in a mess in the 70's. She, in a way, sorted it out. Even if she was deeply unpleasant, we could be in a far greater mess today if she hadn't come to power.

******************************************************************************
See Baby Elephants and more at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47331519@N00/

papercorn2000 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Melvil

She was lucky, very lucky. Then again this country was in a mess in the 70's. She, in a way, sorted it out. Even if she was deeply unpleasant, we could be in a far greater mess today if she hadn't come to power.

******************************************************************************
See Baby Elephants and more at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47331519@N00/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which will probably be how she will be remembered.
Everyone remembers Churchill as a great war leader, it is often forgotten that he was voted out by the returning servicemen and did no more than a poor effort in his second term as PM.

God told me to skin you alive.
http://www.ekroadclub.co.uk/

Fnaar · June 2007

I've mellowed a bit in my middle-age, but anyone remember Elvis Costello's "Tramp the dirt down" (basically about tramping down the dirt on Maggie's grave, to make sure she can't get out...). He didn't mince his words...

"When England was the whore of the world
Margaret was her madam.
And the future looked as bright and as clear
As the black tarmacadam (dodgy rhyme there, Elvis[:)])
...but when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stamp on your grave
and tramp the dirt down"

kinckers kanckers konckers [:D]

Bugcp · June 2007

I fear that there are some people on this forum who really need to just forgive and forget! It's been nearly 17 years since she was in office and she is just a frail old widow now. Just let go, guys - you'll feel much better for it! ;-)

--
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Unkraut · June 2007

I think she will be legitimately criticised by history for rigid enforcement of monetarism at the unnecessary cost of the collapse in manufacturing industry. The government also turned into something of a court surrounding her towards the end. But she also had to do some necessary things to undo the damage being done to the country by irresponsible unions and their life-long presidents. If Labour had wanted to prevent the Thatcher phenomenon, they should have had the guts to do their own labour relations reforms in the late 60's or 70's. Something had to be done.

At the end of her reign, I admit I couldn't stand the sound of her voice, but I do wonder at the venom shown towards her. Surely no-one is going to claim that she didn't do any good at all? She did have guts, which is more than many mealy-mouthed politicians here and in Brussels have. With hindsight, I think she could have done more to cut back on welfarism, though no doubt had she done so she would have been perceived as oppressing the poor.
It is strange testimony to her that Labour have to be careful not to undo all her reforms if they want to get elected. She had more popular support for some of her reforms that is often admitted.

rothbook · June 2007

A sadly neglected aspect of the Al Yamamah deal is the extent to which it boosted the fortunes of Mark Thatcher..

Noodley · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

i am looking forward to the party when the bitch croaks. [:)][:)]

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

your place or mine? [:)]

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bug

I fear that there are some people on this forum who really need to just forgive and forget! It's been nearly 17 years since she was in office and she is just a frail old widow now. Just let go, guys - you'll feel much better for it! ;-)

--
[<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

She was once the greatest Prime Minister this country has ever been blessed with.

But she is indeed now old and frail so, as Bug says, her detractors should show a bit of compassion and let go.

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bug

I fear that there are some people on this forum who really need to just forgive and forget! It's been nearly 17 years since she was in office and she is just a frail old widow now. Just let go, guys - you'll feel much better for it! ;-)

--
[<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

She was once the greatest Prime Minister this country has ever been blessed with.

But she is indeed now old and frail so, as Bug says, her detractors should show a bit of compassion and let go.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, she was an evil cow. The point is are there any prime ministers that are still liked when they end their term or is it just a fact of life that sooner or later your popularity will disappear?

ankev1 · June 2007

Unkraut's got it right. I would add that her big mistake was to discover ideology which I think probably came some time in her second term. Then she did a lot of silly things. We should be glad though that she sorted out the unions and removed everybody's (left and right) complacency.

redcogs · June 2007

i would offer her the same compassion that she offered to the hundreds of thousands of industrial workers whose lives she decimated, or to the families of the Irish hunger strikers when she stood back and allowed them to starve to death rather than concede they were victims of a political war, or to those hundreds who burned to death and drowned in the Belgrano as it sailed away from the conflict zone, making further bloody conflict inevitable.

please look up to the stars.. ***

dsoutar · June 2007

Socialist Worker alert

Zzzzz

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." ~ Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"

ankev1 · June 2007

You have a point with the first one.

British governments of all colours were consistent in treating Republican/Loyalist prisoners as criminals. This was justified as no-one denied them the means of political expression and hence the chance to persuade others to adopt their views.

Wait until the 30 year rule permits the publishing of the papers as to why it made great tactical sense to sink the Belgrano when we did. A ship which - should you need ideological justification - was a tool of a right wing military dictatorship which was prosecuting an unjustifiable war against a largely agricultural territory.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

We should be glad though that she sorted out the unions <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pre Thatcher, there was an assumption that a key trade union could bring down an elected government. Post Thatcher, it's not something that anyone worries about.

Unkraut · June 2007

"the families of the Irish hunger strikers when she stood back and allowed them to starve to death"

But they have to take responsibility for their own actions, notwithstanding the political issues in the background. Maggie didn't kill them, they committed suicide.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

A ship which - should you need ideological justification - was a tool of a right wing military dictatorship which was prosecuting an unjustifiable war against a largely agricultural territory.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Much is made of the fact that it was sailing away at the time. This presupposes that it was impossible to turn it round.

andy_wrx · June 2007

I'd vote for bringing back the Poll Tax rather than the Council Tax...

why is it sunny all week yet rains at weekends ?

ankev1 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

A ship which - should you need ideological justification - was a tool of a right wing military dictatorship which was prosecuting an unjustifiable war against a largely agricultural territory.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Much is made of the fact that it was sailing away at the time. This presupposes that it was impossible to turn it round.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A fact which was not particularly tactically relevant. If we all scratch our heads a lot we might just remember what weapon systems it was fitted with.

redcogs · June 2007

War war, not jaw jaw? All done to save her own self interested neck.

please look up to the stars.. ***

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy_wrx

I'd vote for bringing back the Poll Tax rather than the Council Tax...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Poll Tax was one of the fairest taxes ever: it was just set too high initially and was too hard to collect.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ankev1

We should be glad though that she sorted out the unions <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pre Thatcher, there was an assumption that a key trade union could bring down an elected government. Post Thatcher, it's not something that anyone worries about.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorting out the unions was a fantastic achievement.

ankev1 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

War war, not jaw jaw? All done to save her own self interested neck.

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And that, dear boy, demonstrates clearly why so many reasonable people are unwilling to trust the radical left: the absolute inability to acknowledge anything good achieved by their ideological opponents. She certainly reaped the post war benefit of the Falklands but that was because the majority of the population thought she had done the right thing! I get the impression that you would have left the Falklanders to the oppression of the junta simply because they were opposed to your political opponent. That is a terribly immoral position. To say that she fought the war for her own political ends when it was touch and go as to whether or not we would win it is a gross misrepresentation of history. She was the right PM for that moment. I just don't see how you can deny that.

redcogs · June 2007

A piece of dirt in the south Atlantic populated almost entirely by sheep was worthy of a bloody conflict costing thousands of lives? i see little morality there ankev.

Jaw jaw was required, she ensured with a single calculated and brutal act that that would not happen. For her own political ends.

please look up to the stars.. ***

Noodley · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy_wrx

I'd vote for bringing back the Poll Tax rather than the Council Tax...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Poll Tax was one of the fairest taxes ever: it was just set too high initially and was too hard to collect.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

explain the connection between "fair" and "set too high" - she was and still probably is (although we do not have to endure her spouting off as often) an evil woman, hell bent on ensuring anyone who opposed her or thought otherwise to her was severely dealt with. She has the blood of many on her hands, directly and indirectly, and her policies were the ruin of many people and communities.

Daywalkercp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy_wrx

I'd vote for bringing back the Poll Tax rather than the Council Tax...

why is it sunny all week yet rains at weekends ?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I vote for bringing back rates, hell my rates were œ60 a year, now my Council Tax is other œ100 a month

Gary Askwith · June 2007

Hypthosis:
Maggie was a heroine

Assumptions:

Material consumption and wealth = Happiness
Social Organisations are expendable
Individuals are random re-programmable fiscal units
Higher values and long standing institutions are subordinate to economic growth

Experiment:
Mix ingredients, bring to boil and simmer for 25 years

Criteria for evaluation:

1.Are people on the whole happier?
2.Is our society more or less united?
3.Are members of our society more or less equal?
4.Has disfunction, crime, stress, family ties, public amenities increased or decreased?
5.Is the individual more or less in control of their lives?

Results
1. Less
2. Less
3. Less
4. Increased
5. Less

Hypothesis Disproved

Economic Growth; as dead as a Yangtze River dolphin....

mjones · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

A piece of dirt in the south Atlantic populated almost entirely by sheep was worthy of a bloody conflict costing thousands of lives? i see little morality there ankev.

Jaw jaw was required, she ensured with a single calculated and brutal act that that would not happen. For her own political ends.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry redcogs, but you haven't dealt with the minor matter of the inhabitants at all. Does it not matter to you that they had been forcibly occupied by a repressive regime in an entirely unprovoked attack? What was there to 'jaw jaw' about?

Oh Maggie how I loathed thee.....

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