Rich salivate over Jaguar Land Rover 'prospects'

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

I suppose it is difficult for a socialist to live in a capitalist state.

1. They can either try and change it (difficult because the masses don't want the change)
2. They can leave and live somewhere where they would be happier
3. They can just sit and moan about it all the time

Why do so many choose option 3?
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Good point Joe, you'd think that lots of them would have sold up and moved to North Korea.

david2 · June 2007

But there are alot of people taking the first option, which is why we now have a national health service, minimum wage, health and safety legislation that stops captalist employers killing their employees for quick profits, etc etc etc.

None of that stuiff would get done if it was left to capitalism.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by david2

health and safety legislation that stops captalist employers killing their employees for quick profits, etc etc etc.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As an employer, I constantly hanker back to the good old days when I was able to make quick profits by killing my employees.

redcogs · June 2007

Is North Korea on the Moray Firth?

please look up to the stars.. ***

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

Is North Korea on the Moray Firth?

please look up to the stars.. ***
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Scotland is colder and has a lower life expectancy than North Korea, so it is a good starting point. [;)]

Unkraut · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by david2

health and safety legislation that stops captalist employers killing their employees for quick profits, etc etc etc.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As an employer, I constantly hanker back to the good old days when I was able to make quick profits by killing my employees.
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I always suspected your area of expertise was probate. [:D]

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by david2

But there are alot of people taking the first option, which is why we now have a national health service, minimum wage, health and safety legislation that stops captalist employers killing their employees for quick profits, etc etc etc.

None of that stuiff would get done if it was left to capitalism.
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But is was left to capitalism. When has the country ever been socialist?

redcogs · June 2007

No, it was done by dissidents recognising the basic iniquities and forcing change upon the basic model.

please look up to the stars.. ***

mjones · June 2007

And thereby demonstrating that social needs and essential services can be provided within a market-based economy. The fundamental point is that all these things need to be paid for, so it is only efficient economies that can afford them in the long term. Don't forget that even in our 'capitalist' economy around 40% of GDP is spent by the state; every penny of that 40% funded by taxes on the wealth generating part of the economy.

redcogs · June 2007

No, the reason capitalism has to go is that it is an anarchic system with inevitable catastrophic structural economic crisis woven into its fabric.

The poor and destitute are always burdened with the cost (economic and social) of rescuing the system. It is impossible to make capitalism work for the majority, since it depends crucially upon the majority being economically exploited by a tiny minority of unaccountable super rich parasites.

please look up to the stars.. ***

mjones · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

No, the reason capitalism has to go is that it is an anarchic system with inevitable catastrophic structural economic crisis woven into its fabric.

The poor and destitute are always burdened with the cost (economic and social) of rescuing the system. It is impossible to make capitalism work for the majority, since it depends crucially upon the majority being economically exploited by a tiny minority of unaccountable super rich parasites.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The argument doesn't improve with repetition redcogs. The majority of people in this country are considerably better off than they have ever been and are vastly better off than those in countries that have tried centralised economies (the places that called themselves socialist, even if you dispute that).

There are many reasons for global poverty, and the developed west must certainly take some responsibility for it, however the things that improve the lot of poor countries are better governance, resolution of conflict, and fair trade. None of these are incompatible with market based economies. Indeed fair trade is basically free trade (i.e. no import tarriffs or dumping etc) and is usually the sort of thing that free-market advocates want and socialists oppose...

Unkraut · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

No, the reason capitalism has to go is that it is an anarchic system with inevitable catastrophic structural economic crisis woven into its fabric.

The poor and destitute are always burdened with the cost (economic and social) of rescuing the system. It is impossible to make capitalism work for the majority, since it depends crucially upon the majority being economically exploited by a tiny minority of unaccountable super rich parasites.

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I suspect capitalism is working for the majority, despite its inequalities. And you are not going to tell me that the socialist peoples' republics of eastern Europe didn't have catastrophic structural economic crises woven into their fabric. The economically exploited workers in the west were still better off than the free workers of the east.

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

The poor and destitute are always burdened with the cost <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sterilise them and the problem will be solved in one generation![;)][:D][}:)]

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

No, the reason capitalism has to go is that it is an anarchic system with inevitable catastrophic structural economic crisis woven into its fabric.

The poor and destitute are always burdened with the cost (economic and social) of rescuing the system. It is impossible to make capitalism work for the majority, since it depends crucially upon the majority being economically exploited by a tiny minority of unaccountable super rich parasites.

please look up to the stars.. ***
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So are you saying the majority of people in this country are below an acceptable standard of living?

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

It is impossible to make capitalism work for the majority,
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Of course it works for the majority - that's why pro capitalist parties win elections in Western democracies and truly socialist parties get a risible number of votes. Didn't Arthur Scargill have some socialist party going at the last election and all the candidates lost their deposits?

redcogs · June 2007

i take a global view Patrick - the majority of the worlds 6 billion population do not benefit from capitalism, which continues to immerse them in extreme poverty, often famine conditions. Insupportable.

Only extremists of the worse type continue to believe that world poverty is a price worth paying as long as we in the industrialised west have comfortable lives.

please look up to the stars.. ***

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

i take a global view Patrick - the majority of the worlds 6 billion population do not benefit from capitalism, which continues to immerse them in extreme poverty, often famine conditions. Insupportable.

Only extremists of the worse type continue to believe that world poverty is a price worth paying as long as we in the industrialised west have comfortable lives.

please look up to the stars.. ***
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I see, so what you are after is a socialist party to control the whole world. My be worth thinking on a more realistic scale.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

i take a global view Patrick - the majority of the worlds 6 billion population do not benefit from capitalism, which continues to immerse them in extreme poverty, often famine conditions. Insupportable.

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Hmm........so it is capitalism's fault that Zimbabwe has gone from being a prosperous country to an economic basket case? Might some of the fault lie with despotic rulers?

Joe Sacco · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

i take a global view Patrick - the majority of the worlds 6 billion population do not benefit from capitalism, which continues to immerse them in extreme poverty, often famine conditions. Insupportable.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmm........so it is capitalism's fault that Zimbabwe has gone from being a prosperous country to an economic basket case? Might some of the fault lie with despotic rulers?
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Don't spoil it and bring it into the real world.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Sacco

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I see, so what you are after is a socialist party to control the whole world. My be worth thinking on a more realistic scale.
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I dunno, Joe, if they start on a small scale, others are going to notice that it's not working. And what about the poor sods in the socialist countries? They're going to be like the East Germans watching West German telly and noticing that their counterparts are buying new VW Golfs while they are on a 12 year waiting list for a Lada that costs three year's wages and doesn't work.

speshcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redcogs

i take a global view Patrick - the majority of the worlds 6 billion population do not benefit from capitalism, which continues to immerse them in extreme poverty, often famine conditions. Insupportable.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmm........so it is capitalism's fault that Zimbabwe has gone from being a prosperous country to an economic basket case? Might some of the fault lie with despotic rulers?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oh, you can't really describe Mugabe's regime as being socialist... [;)]

More a klepto-kakistocracy. [:(]

<hr noshade size="1">"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)

speshcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

And what about the poor sods in the socialist countries? They're going to be like the East Germans watching West German telly and noticing that their counterparts are buying new VW Golfs while they are on a 12 year waiting list for a Lada that costs three year's wages and doesn't work.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><Pedant>

The best the East German motor industry could come up with was the Wartburg or the Trabant...

</Pedant>

A Lada would have been an improvement, a Skoda would have been unimaginable luxury. [:D]

<hr noshade size="1">"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)

Rich salivate over Jaguar Land Rover 'prospects'

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