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Rich salivate over Jaguar Land Rover 'prospects'

redcogsredcogs Posts: 3,232
edited June 2007 in Campaign
Fantastic news! At long last, our Tory supporting forum venture capitalists, for too long over burdened with the excessive taxation levels of 10% (which are, in any event, only designed to subsidise Scotland and the profligate poor, including, naturally, numerous foreigners), are to be granted a truly wonderful boost.

Jaguar and Land Rover, those two iconic motoring brands, forever associated with everything dire about UK manufacturing industry (you know the sort of stuff, unprofitability, poor vehicle performance, bad design, unreliability etc), are, it is strongly rumoured, to be 'offered' (much as a censored might offer a service) to salivating speculators and asset stripping venture capitalists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6743669.stm

Is it fair, the unreasonable might enquire, that 20000 jobs could be on the line, simply to stuff the faces of a handful of super rich profiteering parasites?





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Posts

  • spirespire Posts: 4,077
    Aren't you proud that these fine marques are likely to be grabbed back from the thieving hand of the Americans and returned to British ownership?
  • spirespire Posts: 4,077
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by redcogs</i>

    Is it fair, the unreasonable might enquire, that 20000 jobs could be on the line, simply to stuff the faces of a handful of super rich profiteering parasites?


    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    I have to agree that it is rather appalling that loathsome Brown will rake in so much stamp duty on the share transfer.
  • Joe SaccoJoe Sacco Posts: 4,907
    Redcogs, why don't you just go and live in a commie country rather than live in a capitalist country and moan about capitalism?

    Oh, that's right there aren't any as they have all failed miserably...
  • david2david2 Posts: 5,200
    On the radio this morning they asked one of the bigwigs at Toyota whether his company would be interested in acquiring Jaguar and Land Rover. He was there to talk about something completely different but they slipped the question in at the end. Poor bloke just about managed to hide his mirth at the thought of a succesful company like Toyota, with Lexus and Land Cruiser in its portfolio, getting saddled with a couple of lame duck British marques.
  • SmeggersSmeggers Posts: 1,019
    Too right redcogs....

    In fact, why dont we raise income tax to 99.999999% so I can subsidise these 20,000 heavily unionised jobs-worth staff to carry on making poor performance, unreliable, badly designed cars which no body either wants or can afford?

    Ya muppet. ;)

    <font size="1">Hickory Dickory Dock,
    A baby elephant ran up the clock,
    The clock is being repaired</font id="size1">
    <font size="1">Hickory Dickory Dock,
    A baby elephant ran up the clock,
    The clock is being repaired</font id="size1">
  • zimzum42zimzum42 Posts: 8,294
    Why don't you complain when non-manufacturing jobs are threatened?

    Why is a miner worth more than a civil servant or a checkout boy/girl?



    [:D] www.addiscombe.org [8D] [8D] www.darhotwire.com [8D] [8D] www.muzikmedia.com [:D]
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  • Don't the Chinese want to buy them?

    http://s11.invisionfree.com/Tramp
  • AsterixcpAsterixcp Posts: 6,251
    Ford is pretty good at acquiring good companies (as well as bad) and turning them into lame ducks.

    Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..
    Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..
  • Uncle MortUncle Mort Posts: 1,124
    I would imagine that the Landrover brand will continue (but maybe not in the UK), but I presume Jaguar has had it - censored residual values mean it's below Daewoo in our company car charts. I mean - who would be sad enough to buy a Jag nowadays?? Apart from the usual laughing stock?

    But I thought the whole point about these sales was that they were to private equity firms (i.e. no shares or stamp duty - just a big fat pension scheme to plunder and possibilities for "streamlining")

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
  • MichaelWMichaelW Posts: 2,226
    Venture capitalist, that name is such a con. I remember when Blair, thinking they were the same as their US versions, saluted them for their dynamism and contribution to high risk, high tech industrial ventures. The only link they have with this kind of venture is that they have nicked the name. In reality, most of this "venture" capital is invested in management buyouts of well established old firms with large assets. There is no risk and high return, usually by stripping the assets, hoisting the liabilities onto the taxpayer and selling the presigeous name to Johnny Foreigner.
    >end rant
  • simoncpsimoncp Posts: 3,260
    Perhaps this is an opportunity for a workers co-operative to take over. What a golden chance to show that the workers can do better than Ford. After all Ford is a capitalist company.
  • Joe SaccoJoe Sacco Posts: 4,907
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by simoncp</i>

    Perhaps this is an opportunity for a workers co-operative to take over. What a golden chance to show that the workers can do better than Ford. After all Ford is a capitalist company.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    If you take a look at Ford's losses at the moment it may be hard to do worse.
  • Gavin GilbertGavin Gilbert Posts: 4,019
    Typical blinkered commie not noticing that it's the capitalist that create the jobs in the first place. And what happens when the pinkos try and take over?....British Leyland, that's what happens.

    How many times do you losers need to repeat the socialist experiment to notice that it always fails?

    <hr noshade size="1">
    'Cause I'm a lover not a fighter
    Yes, I'm a lover not a fighter
    Yes, I'm a lover not a fighter
    And I'm really built for speed
    Built for speed
  • Kev67Kev67 Posts: 2,351
    It's surprising with all the 4x4s about now that LandRover still can't make a profit.
    <font size="1"><font face="Book Antiqua"><font color="purple">Cycle the power.</font id="purple"></font id="size1"></font id="Book Antiqua">
  • IanTrcpIanTrcp Posts: 761
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by MichaelW</i>

    There is no risk and high return, usually by stripping the assets, hoisting the liabilities onto the taxpayer and selling the presigeous name to Johnny Foreigner.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    No risk and high return? That's got my attention. Could you tell us a little more about how it works in practice? How does it start for example? Are the present owners of Jaguar and Land Rover being forced to sell in some way?
  • Kev67Kev67 Posts: 2,351
    It's rather depressing watching our car industry go down the drain. I don't suppose the high pound helps. Italian, French and German companies seem able to compete. I see plenty of German cars about. I have never seen many British cars when I've gone abroad.
    <font size="1"><font face="Book Antiqua"><font color="purple">Cycle the power.</font id="purple"></font id="size1"></font id="Book Antiqua">
  • Gavin GilbertGavin Gilbert Posts: 4,019
    The really funny thing is a pinko mithering on about jobs at a luxury car makers. That's a LUXURY car maker Stalin, automobiles for the elite capitalist classes.

    And why are Ford selling? Because the product doesn't fit the market. The product doesn't sell anymore. It's big, expensive, thirsty, ecologically unfriendly and unfashionable. Hurrah! The consumer has made the right choice at last.


    <hr noshade size="1">
    'Cause I'm a lover not a fighter
    Yes, I'm a lover not a fighter
    Yes, I'm a lover not a fighter
    And I'm really built for speed
    Built for speed
  • speshcpspeshcp Posts: 3,746
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Kev67</i>

    It's surprising with all the 4x4s about now that LandRover still can't make a profit.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That's not strictly true.

    Land Rover were in difficulties 3-4 years ago, but they are now making a profit.

    According to a friend of mine who works at the Solihull factory, most of the profit that Land Rover makes is taken bt Ford to prop up Jaguar.

    See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6744063.stm


    <hr noshade size="1"><font size="1">"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)
    </font id="size1">
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,890
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Uncle Mort</i>

    I would imagine that the Landrover brand will continue (but maybe not in the UK), but I presume Jaguar has had it - censored residual values mean it's below Daewoo in our company car charts. I mean - who would be sad enough to buy a Jag nowadays?? Apart from the usual laughing stock?

    But I thought the whole point about these sales was that they were to private equity firms (i.e. no shares or stamp duty - just a big fat pension scheme to plunder and possibilities for "streamlining")

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"><i></i><center></center>
    You mean we're actually gonna get rid of these grotesque ugly disgusting Range Rovers and Discoveries, bought by stupid people with too much money and driven by women who have forgotten how to drive and use the damn thing for school runs?

    Yippeeeeee ........................


    SIZE IS EVERYTHING! or at least that's what my LBS tells me.
  • UnkrautUnkraut Posts: 1,103
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Joe Sacco</i>

    Redcogs, why don't you just go and live in a commie country rather than live in a capitalist country and moan about capitalism?

    Oh, that's right there aren't any as they have all failed miserably...
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
    Well, I wouldn't be a supporter of socialism, but I think redcogs is right to highlight the iniquities of capitalism ('the unacceptable face of capitalism', to quote leftie Ted Heath). One of the iniquities of capitalism is that already rich people can rake in a fortune by asset stripping companies and putting people out of work. What makes it worse is when such predators have never really done a proper job of work themselves or contributed anything useful to society, yet gain wealth at others' expense. You don't have to be a commie to think that that is wrong.
  • Uncle MortUncle Mort Posts: 1,124
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by giant man</i>

    You mean we're actually gonna get rid of these grotesque ugly disgusting Range Rovers and Discoveries, bought by stupid people with too much money and driven by women who have forgotten how to drive and use the damn thing for school runs?

    Yippeeeeee ........................

    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    No, I didn't say that, and I don't think you will get rid of them either.

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
  • If these things are such a rock solid investment, then why don't the trade unions invest their members pension funds in buying the companies?
  • Uncle MortUncle Mort Posts: 1,124
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Patrick Stevens</i>

    If these things are such a rock solid investment, then why don't the trade unions invest their members pension funds in buying the companies?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    For private equity firms, concerns like these are often a rock solid investment precisely because they have pension funds to raid and fund their borrowing, not because of what they make.

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Uncle Mort</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Patrick Stevens</i>

    If these things are such a rock solid investment, then why don't the trade unions invest their members pension funds in buying the companies?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    For private equity firms, concerns like these are often a rock solid investment precisely because they have pension funds to raid and fund their borrowing, not because of what they make.

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    ????? Please explain.
  • UnkrautUnkraut Posts: 1,103
    I thought pension funds were untouchable, being kept separate from the company itself so that the occupational pension scheme would be able to meet its existing commitments.
  • Uncle MortUncle Mort Posts: 1,124
    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Patrick Stevens</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Uncle Mort</i>

    <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Patrick Stevens</i>

    If these things are such a rock solid investment, then why don't the trade unions invest their members pension funds in buying the companies?
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    For private equity firms, concerns like these are often a rock solid investment precisely because they have pension funds to raid and fund their borrowing, not because of what they make.

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    ????? Please explain.
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    As you well know, Patrick, private equity firms have a habit of borrowing heavily to take over companies that have assets and that have hefty pension funds. They then pay off their debt by stripping out assets and raiding pension funds. It's normal practice. I don't know if this is the case here, but I it's unlikely that there is so much interest because the industry thinks that a long time lossmaker like Jaguar has a long term future as a profitable car manufacturer.

    __________________
    <font size="1">In his mid forties and still unusual</font id="size1">
  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Uncle Mort</i>

    As you well know, Patrick, private equity firms have a habit of borrowing heavily to take over companies that have assets and that have hefty pension funds. They then pay off their debt by stripping out assets and raiding pension funds. It's normal practice. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    They certainly manage to borrow from pension funds, but the extent to which the pension fund of the target company can be raided is very limited. Basically, the pension fund is independent of the company and only a surplus can be utilised and this has to be with the consent of the trustees.
  • redcogsredcogs Posts: 3,232
    Fancy apologising for a mugging exercise perpetrated by the rich. Immoral and shameful.



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  • <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by redcogs</i>

    Fancy apologising for a mugging exercise perpetrated by the rich. Immoral and shameful.



    <font size="1">please look up to the stars.. </font id="size1"><font size="6"><font color="red">***</font id="red"></font id="size6">
    <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

    I'm looking forward to seeing the trade unions using their funds to buy the companies to run them in the interests of the workers.
  • Joe SaccoJoe Sacco Posts: 4,907
    I suppose it is difficult for a socialist to live in a capitalist state.

    1. They can either try and change it (difficult because the masses don't want the change)
    2. They can leave and live somewhere where they would be happier
    3. They can just sit and moan about it all the time

    Why do so many choose option 3?
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