Omega Titanium Frame

Goochy · June 2007

I've been riding an Omega Radius for over 2 years and about 21000 miles, not one single problem, super comfortable and super fast. I have just bought pre production prototype Enigma Exocet and again it is absolutely superb, I always found Omega very easy to deal with and likewise Enigma are genuinly friendly and helpfull guys.

giant_man · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy1

Hi Robert,i appreciate you and one or two more have a bit of an axe to grind!!! but heh mistakes happen!!! im sure Paul and Jim would/could with you sort out this problem,if given a chance? with all due respect could you, have being fitting it incorrectly? (no offence intended,i had to ask)yes i have an interest i am having an Etape built up by Paul Hewitt and yes i have every confidence in the product and the cycle builder! this Witch hunt serves no purpose,Dissing a new buissness in my opinion is bang out of order! mistakes happen unfortunately as in all areas of life.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><center></center>
Nothing to do with witch hunts on new businesses at all. I just hope you don't have the same problem with your Etape and a slipping seatpost. You will come and tell us otherwise now won't you? [^]

SIZE IS EVERYTHING! or at least that's what my LBS tells me.

Ki · June 2007

@ Carpe Diem

I remember your postings on the Enigma forum but I don't remember seeing two other people with a seatpost slipping problem.
Also the guy with the beer can shim offered you to go and see that his problem was with his seatpost and not with his frame... did you go and have a look? I also remember he posted that his seatpost didn't slip without the shim.
I see from one of your postings that your "badly damaged" Thompson seatpost that you tried to claim compensation for has now made a remarkable recovery and is now being used again.

Yep, I support Enigma cos they gave me 100% good service and a 1st class frame.

Carpe Diem · June 2007

You can still use a Thompson seat post with scratches, The original beer can poster said in his first post that he needed the shim to stop the post slipping! otherwise why make one?? Why not just fit another seatpost (why should you need too?). I fitted 3 different post, Thompson, ITM and a carbon reynolds supplied by Enigma themselves...they all slipped the same!

If you look on the forum now there is another guy with the same problem, unless the thread has been pulled like mine

Can I start a poll......How many people have to make a shim to stop there their seatpost slipping? especially on so called expertly designed high engineered Titanium frames?

If this is common practice, then I will hold my hand's up and say I was wrong to get my money back.

Enigma replaced my seatpost after I sent them a picture of the damage done, so I have no problems with that.

This is my last post on the subject now, I am sorry I ever got involved with Enigma. My comments are from my own experiences with one of their frames, I am sure there are people like yourself that have been delighted with your frame? unfortunatley I was not one of them.

Grifcp · June 2007

When I bought my Van Nicholas Ti frame, the guy asked if I needed a post to go with it, when I told him I already had a carbon post, he said he did'nt recommend carbon posts with Ti because they slip (or maybe because he wanted to sell me a Ti post?). That was the first I'd heard that, but as I already had one, I just thought I'd see how it went. To date it has not slipped at all.

Ki · June 2007

@ Carpe

Granted you had a slipping problem and granted there is a new posting about a Thompson heading south but the beer can shim guy stated in all 4 of his postings that without the shim his seatpost did not slip. He actually said in his 1st posting that on building his bike the seatpost felt a "tad loose".

I should know.... I made those postings as "Big Ron".... and I made the shim out of a Guinness can not a beer can [;)]

Believe me, the only problem I've had with my seatpost is getting it wedged into the seat tube (because of that shim) and having to cut it out and buy a new one.

So for the record and before you go off to another forum and start harping on about my shim, I DON'T AND NEVER HAVE HAD A SEATPOST SLIPPING PROBLEM.

One thing I don't understand is why you never gave Enigma the courtesy of inspecting your damaged frame and probably being offered a replacement before you went at them with all guns blazing.
Even the big companies have the odd problem...... Cervelo frame recall, Time RXS pedals recall, Shimano brakes recall etc.

nick hanson · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Carpe Diem

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by McBain_v1

Wow - sounds as though seat post slippage is a bit of an issue here. Now I'm a wee bit worried, but I am going to persevere a bit longer. I've got another Thompson seat post on my mountain bike that I could try (although it is a bit longer than my roadie one). Maybe it's time to get the micrometer out and start checking diameters of seat tubes and seat posts [?] [:(]

What do I ride? Now that's an Enigma 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I think there is a problem with seat post slippage!

There's 2 guys on the Enigma forum with a similar problem, 1 of them had to make a shim out of a beer can to stop his slipping !!

Hence the reason I didn't really want another frame off them.

Mark Reilly say's he slacked the tolerances off on the seat tube to allow for all the vagaries in 27.2mm seatpost??

I think this is bullshiit personally
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If MR has 'slacked off the tolerances' then some unfortunate could end up with the seat tube internal diameter UNDER size,& unable to get their seatpost in the frame.
I am an Engineer,& have not found any 'vagaries in seatpost diameters'.
Sounds like he's no frame designer,more of a chancer

so many cols,so little time!

Ki · June 2007

I'm no engineer but surely if you "slacken" then the diameter becomes greater.... so how can you get under sized [?]

Unknown · June 2007

What is it with Omega/Enigma threads that prompts new users to come on and get all het up in defending them?

Makes me very suspicious...

Ki · June 2007

Hey Uncle Jim, we've been rumbled!

I got good service and a damn fine frame so why not defend them.

Ki · June 2007

Oh... and Carpe Diem keeps distorting what I posted on the Enigma forum for his own gains so I follow him around to correct his postings.

Unknown · June 2007

So Ki a question - why, if your seat post wasn't slipping, did you decide to fit a home made shim?

I'm genuinely interested.

infopete · June 2007

Hi

I've an Omega Axis. I've just had a problem with a creak that came from my seat pin shim.

I had great service and help from Mark.

My Axis is going like a dream now.

Pete

Ki · June 2007

Only too glad to put things right......

When building my bike I noticed this tolerance that Enigma say they designed into the frame.... the seatpost felt a wee bit loose on placing into the seat tube. However, after tightening the seatpost clamp it was ok, I rode my bike for well over a month with no problem of my satpost slipping.
The night I read Carpe's posting on the Enigma forum I had a few friends around for a few cans and one jokingly suggested that I should make sure that my seatpost doesn't slip by making a "beer can shim", so I did. Yep, it removed the microns of tolerance but it also (as I found out later) wedged my seatpost into the seat tube.

Believe me, with the shim in it took great force to push the seatpost down. I left it in because if there was a problem with the seat tube I didn't want to be stopping every few miles to raise my saddle.
On the one occasion I did have to raise my saddle I couldn't because it was wedged in..... a hacksaw got it out [:(]

I made 3 other postings on Carpe's Enigma thread stating that my seatpost doesn't slip but the dude don't listen!

top_bhoy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ki

I'm no engineer but surely if you "slacken" then the diameter becomes greater.... so how can you get under sized [?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If a seatpost has a size of say 27.2mm+/- 0.5mm but the seat tube has a size of 27.2mm +/- 0.7mm because the tolerances have been 'slackened', then it is possible that the seatpost size could be is 26.7mm and the seat tube 26.5mm - hence the post will not fit the tube. Of course, if the tolerances are 'slackened' further, the problem could be worsened. Similarly for going the other way - the maximum seatpost would be 27.7mm but the seat tube 27.9mm - by 'slackening' the seat tube tolerances, its possible the the gap between the seatpost and tube could be increased - hence seat post slippage.

I have no idea what tolerances manufacturers use and it's only examples to answer this specific query - not to get involved in the rest of the thread.

Hope this helps explain how 'slackening' can make things tighter[:D]

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg

Unknown · June 2007

The Thompson seatpins in MsM's Airborne and Van Nicholas frames fit like pistons in a well-oiled cylinder (and don't slip). There is certainly no possibility of inserting a shim between seatpin and seat tube.

I would expect nothing less from a properly constructed frame.

Ki · June 2007

Yikes, that's some blinding science. But, surely the key word is "slacken" which according to the English dictionary means loosen.
Enigma say that the seat tube is what has been slackened which supports the 2nd part of your statement...... but also disses our engineering friends theory.
Based on what you're saying surely you must agree with me..... how can a "slack" seat tube become too tight for a seatpost when the seatpost has not changed size but the seat tube has increased?

Ki · June 2007

@ NickM

Read between the lines.... the shim fcuked up my seatpost, it was a unnecessary modification that I made which the frame didn't need and which I'm trying to point out was a mistake.

Happy cycling mate.

bianchi 1 · June 2007

And yet when you put it in you thought it was necessary. when you say
" Even the big companies have the odd problem...... Cervelo frame recall, Time RXS pedals recall, Shimano brakes recall etc "
Are you calling for a recall.

top_bhoy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ki

Yikes, that's some blinding science. But, surely the key word is "slacken" which according to the English dictionary means loosen.
Enigma say that the seat tube is what has been slackened which supports the 2nd part of your statement...... but also disses our engineering friends theory.
Based on what you're saying surely you must agree with me..... how can a "slack" seat tube become too tight for a seatpost when the seatpost has not changed size but the seat tube has increased?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The seat tube can also decrease if the tolerance has a +/- element to it. The nominal size (ie the wanted size) remains the same but the tolerances can differ.For instance:

for a tolerance of 0.5mm

27.2mm +/- 0.5 mm is between 26.7mm and 27.7mm.

'slackening' the tolerances ie making them bigger to 0.7mm

27.2mm +/- 0.7 mm is between 26.5mm and 27.9mm

therefore you can see that in some instances where the tolerance has been relaxed (which is the way I'd prefer it to be described and not slackened) the variation from nominal increases thus in some instances the seat tube may be too tight or it could be too slack. The same principle applies to the seatpost and as there are a myriad of manufacturers out there, they may all have different tolerances and whilst in 98% of cases there are no problems, in 2% there are and the relaxing of the tolerances are to compensate for this - and leading to problems somewhere else. You don't get something for nothing. There are usually trade offs. Try another seatpost in the same seat tube and all may all be OK and vice versa with the same seat post and a different seat tube.

Though it shouldn't happen, where several seatposts from different manufacturers have failed in the same seatpost, I think its time to suspect a problem with the seat tube.

As an electronic engineer within the defence sector , I find that tolerances only get relaxed when something is difficult to achieve and/or it is not a safety critical item. It tends to be that the tighter the required tolerance, there is an increase in costs somwhere in the process to achieving that standard.

Its all a bit long winded this I agree but I don't know if I can explain it better. Hope it helps a little more anyway. Maybe I should improve my written English[}:)]

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg

PhilofCas · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Top_Bhoy

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ki

Yikes, that's some blinding science. But, surely the key word is "slacken" which according to the English dictionary means loosen.
Enigma say that the seat tube is what has been slackened which supports the 2nd part of your statement...... but also disses our engineering friends theory.
Based on what you're saying surely you must agree with me..... how can a "slack" seat tube become too tight for a seatpost when the seatpost has not changed size but the seat tube has increased?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The seat tube can also decrease if the tolerance has a +/- element to it. The nominal size (ie the wanted size) remains the same but the tolerances can differ.For instance:

for a tolerance of 0.5mm

27.2mm +/- 0.5 mm is between 26.7mm and 27.7mm.

'slackening' the tolerances ie making them bigger to 0.7mm

27.2mm +/- 0.7 mm is between 26.5mm and 27.9mm

therefore you can see that in some instances where the tolerance has been relaxed (which is the way I'd prefer it to be described and not slackened) the variation from nominal increases thus in some instances the seat tube may be too tight or it could be too slack. The same principle applies to the seatpost and as there are a myriad of manufacturers out there, they may all have different tolerances and whilst in 98% of cases there are no problems, in 2% there are and the relaxing of the tolerances are to compensate for this - and leading to problems somewhere else. You don't get something for nothing. There are usually trade offs. Try another seatpost in the same seat tube and all may all be OK and vice versa with the same seat post and a different seat tube.

Though it shouldn't happen, where several seatposts from different manufacturers have failed in the same seatpost, I think its time to suspect a problem with the seat tube.

As an electronic engineer within the defence sector , I find that tolerances only get relaxed when something is difficult to achieve and/or it is not a safety critical item. It tends to be that the tighter the required tolerance, there is an increase in costs somwhere in the process to achieving that standard.

Its all a bit long winded this I agree but I don't know if I can explain it better. Hope it helps a little more anyway. Maybe I should improve my written English[}:)]

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know exactly where you are coming from, i suspect Ki doesn't understand tolerances, or he's trying to wind you up ?!.
I'd add that in addition to +/- tolerances you can also have +0/- or +/-0 ones too.

top_bhoy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PhilofCas

I know exactly where you are coming from, i suspect Ki doesn't understand tolerances, or he's trying to wind you up ?!.
I'd add that in addition to +/- tolerances you can also have +0/- or +/-0 ones too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think he was but if he was trying to wind me up it failed miserably - I never even noticed it to upset me[:I]

This is my bike:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure002.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p66/ ... ure003.jpg

d4shaw · June 2007

The reason I was interested in this forum was because I have recently taken ownership of an Enigma Eulogy. I was saddened to read some of the unfortunate threads on this forum. It's a shame that some people think it amusing to personalise and slander someone's good name by linking it to that of an individual who has disgraced our sport. My frame was a custom job and was shipped to me in the Middle East. I can report for the record that it is the best frame I've ever had in all aspects, stiffness, ride and general quality. The purchasing experience was very good and the level of personal customer service was first rate, especially as I am approximately 3000 miles away from the UK. Given my experience and the many years that Jim Walker has in the bike business I am confidant that if I do have a problem that they will standby their product. I would like to thank all at Enigma and as they are a relatively new British company wish them well in the future.

Unknown · June 2007

d4shaw - are you aware of Omega titanium bikes? If you'd seen how Mark Reilly, now in the employ of Jim Walker, had treated people as that company went bust you'd understand some of the comments on here.

giant_man · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by d4shaw

The reason I was interested in this forum was because I have recently taken ownership of an Enigma Eulogy. I was saddened to read some of the unfortunate threads on this forum. It's a shame that some people think it amusing to personalise and slander someone's good name by linking it to that of an individual who has disgraced our sport. My frame was a custom job and was shipped to me in the Middle East. I can report for the record that it is the best frame I've ever had in all aspects, stiffness, ride and general quality. The purchasing experience was very good and the level of personal customer service was first rate, especially as I am approximately 3000 miles away from the UK. Given my experience and the many years that Jim Walker has in the bike business I am confidant that if I do have a problem that they will standby their product. I would like to thank all at Enigma and as they are a relatively new British company wish them well in the future.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><center></center>
Hmm I don't think you've got the jist of this thread matey. I am glad you like your Enigma Eulogy so much and I hope it works out for you. It's not about 'slandering' someone's good name at all, it's about getting what you paid for in the first place.

SIZE IS EVERYTHING! or at least that's what my LBS tells me.

bianchi 1 · June 2007

"an individual who has disgraced our sport"
Who do you mean d4shaw?

Ki · June 2007

I'm not trying to wind anyone up and I apologize if it appeared that I was. Written correspondence is the worst for getting peoples backs up as so much is lost in our brief postings.
Yep I do understand tolerance as I am also a qualified electronics engineer with 10 years work experience. But, that was over 17yrs ago as I moved over to business software.... which is pants..... I always wanted to be a train driver.

Bianchi 1..... no I'm not calling for a recall, I was just pointing out that things can and do go wrong in any manufacturing process.

I only joined this thread to correct Carpe Diem on wrongly saying that I had a slipping problem. I've achieved what I set out to do so I'm going to drop out this.

PhilofCas · June 2007

Ki, sorry fot intimating that this may be the case.

Ki · June 2007

Hey Philo

No probs, my posting does come across as if I'm having a pop at you and Top_Bhoy. I'm sure I would have responded in the same way.

Langenberg · June 2007

Coming back to the point re designer or not. I have had so far two fittings for custom-mades, the first was about 12 years ago for a steel bike, the result was a bike that I never really got on with, toe-overlap and somewhat 'active' stearing, descending never felt quite safe. Established and well-known German frame builder by the way.

The second was at Omega / Mark Reilly. While he did punch in measurements into standard frame development software, the numbers were signficantly tweaked afterwards, toe-overlap removed etc. Result was an extremely comfortable and stable geometry. Was it the software of the designer? My feeling was that the human part was bigger in the process with the software giving a useful starting position but, whatever it was, the resulting frame fits me perfectly.

=====================
Pas de progrŠs sans peigne.

Omega Titanium Frame

Comments

Categories