how many carbs for a sportif?

speedbump · June 2007

If you were riding a 6hr sportif ride (putting in loads of effort), how many grams of carbs per hour should you consume?

I notice that the cereal bars I usually take only have 18grams which doesn't seem like much. I was hoping that one bar every half hour would be enough. How many grams do you get in an average banana?

Thanks

SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

Does a sportive really need this kind of analysis? Personally, I would just take along the usual stuff I would munch on during a long ride, with a bit over for safety, and eat little and often. You should be able to recognise the very early stage of hypoglyacemia (bonk) from experience, so you'll know if you;re not eating enough. If your usual bars get you through a long ride, then use them! The day of the event is not the time to experiment.

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

oldwelshman · June 2007

I just take one energy drink and one drink with squash, two bananas and emergency gel.
With organised ride you will get food at feed stations so I just have another banana there and top up drink if required and do same on each station.
This worked on 100 miles dartmoor and 123 miles cymru gran fondo.
When riding long club run I generally take two bottles again, with two bananas and two gels.
I took too much food on both sportives as plenty of food and drink on stations.
Just as important though to have good pasta meal night before, plenty of fluids ( not guines like Steve lol) and breakfast then you won't need so much on ride.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by speedbump

If you were riding a 6hr sportif ride (putting in loads of effort), how many grams of carbs per hour should you consume?

I notice that the cereal bars I usually take only have 18grams which doesn't seem like much. I was hoping that one bar every half hour would be enough. How many grams do you get in an average banana?

Thanks
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

Hey, it wasnt the Guinness that did me it was the bleedin rain..!

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

richa · June 2007

60g-80g/hr.

I go for:
- 750ml energy drink per hour
- 1 gel / bar per hour (alternate)

i.e. for 6 hrs:
6 High5 Isotonic drinks = 276g
3 High5 Bars = 135g
2 High5 Gels = 69g

Total = 480g = 80g/hr

Most sportives will also have feed stations so you can get 'normal' food.

Rich
Etape2007.Blogspot.Com

chuckles · June 2007

You can get away with 100g per hour of SIS GO easily. Forget solid food if you are planning on really going for it just stick to isotonic/hypertonic liquids and gels.

Chuckles

Paul-B · June 2007

I am finding that I get nauseous on long rides using energy drinks (currently using maximuscle viper which is not very sweet). This has the effect that I can't stomach any more food or much drink in the latter stages of a ride (5-6hrs+), so I'm depleted of energy at that stage. This tends to be worse in hot weather with sweat losses. In cooler weather I can drink only energy drink and feel generally OK. I could only drink about 1.5l in 4 hours which is half Rich is consuming.

Question: would I be better off:
- experimenting with different brands to try to find one that works for me? (problem is that I don't have time to do this before July's sportive)
- using water only for the first 2-3 hours to keep the stomach settled then mixing the carbs in when I need it more?
- switching to using water + gels only (+ feed station food)? (but gels are even more sickly to taste).

Anyone with similar experiences and solutions?

SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

Torq energy drink makes me feel ill after 4 hours of it. "Real" foood works every time to combat knock: malt loaf, flapjacks and bananas are surprisingly good. You should be able to get enough of this stuff in a jersey pocket without even need to stop at the feedstops should you really want to. Two of us made one stop on the White Horse, and again only one feed stop on the CGF "route" that we rode (88 miles)

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

BeaconRuth · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Paul-B
I am finding that I get nauseous on long rides using energy drinks...........

Question: would I be better off:
- experimenting with different brands to try to find one that works for me? (problem is that I don't have time to do this before July's sportive)
- using water only for the first 2-3 hours to keep the stomach settled then mixing the carbs in when I need it more?
- switching to using water + gels only (+ feed station food)? (but gels are even more sickly to taste).

Anyone with similar experiences and solutions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What's wrong with normal food these days? Why does everyone think it's a good idea to fill themselves up with artificial drinks and gels and then wonder why they don't feel too great? The marketing gurus of these 'sports products' companies must be laughing all the way home at just how easily they manage to persuade people engaging in sport that their products are somehow essential.

Jam sandwiches, fig rolls, muesli bars, bananas with ordinary plain water......... they all provide the SAME thing.......... carbohydrate - and your stomach is a lot more used to digesting them than sickly sweet synthetic stuff.

I've done 15 years of cycling, many long and arduous tours in the Alps, Pyrenees etc, the length and breadth of the UK, races up to 100 miles........ believe me, ordinary food is perfectly adequate and, IMO, in many ways a lot better for you!

Paul-B · June 2007

There's nothing wrong with normal food of course, but there's nothing wrong with trying to seek improvement either, especially in a late stages of a ride when you're trying to hang in there, and I'm following advice regularly dished out in the C+ magazine rather than from advertisers - oh but I suppose all magazines are just in-hoc to the advertisers so all their advice can be ignored. Specifically it's the idea of electrolyte fluid replacment drinks rather than water - and yes you can make them up yourself rather than be an advertiser's victim if you want to save the money - if you want to bother.

Tom Butcher · June 2007

I've never had a problem with real food on sportives - I take a bit of fairly dilute energy drink too. Generally a couple of bottles of half strength energy drink - a sachet of powder to fill them up at a feed station, and then a few bananas, flapjack, apple pie - whatever is going. I've always erred on the side of eating more and generally finish stronger on long rides than riders who are similar standard so it seems to work OK.

Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.

BeaconRuth · June 2007

You'll replace the electrolytes very successfully with a few bites of normal food. You won't be short of anything you need with normal food and water.

Unknown · June 2007

I'm with Ruth on this one. I've always found that my performance in long, hilly/mountainous sportives is much better when I stick to the food my body is used to. The odd gel helps on longer climbs, i.e. 1 hour plus, when you don't want to be stressing the body by eating, but that apart I stick with fresh and dried fruit and nuts.

ut_o_cykla · June 2007

Try before using in anger and little and often are two phrases that are good to remember - 2 bars an hour might play havoc with your innards!

As Andyp & others have said I think much depends on how hard you are working and how much blood is 'left over' for digestion.

When riding hard I used to use bananas & water (too late & slow).Maxim flavours were ok (but pricey and not nice to tip over head on hot Alpine passes!!). Maxim gels & water seems to work well (Don't forget water tho' - otherwise the gel takes ages to be absorbed)

HAving said that on longer slower rides cold sausage or jam sarnies are yummy. Dried fruit, sweets and bananas are also tolerated as is flat coke.

Food freaks wanting to know how many mg of X is in prune puree ;-) can check out http://www.fineli.fi/index.php?lang=en

pousse moi s'il vous plait

bahzob · June 2007

FYI Energy (not carbs) for 2 recent sportives (according to Powertap)
TOW day 1 100 miles 1940m climb, 30kph avs 4500cal
TOW day 3 130 miles 2200m climb 25kph avs 5600cal

(no day 2 because no Powertap because crap weather = winter single used)

domtyler · June 2007

I disagree about using solid food which is not only a pain to eat when you are working really hard but is also digested very slowly. Water empties slowly from the gut too and makes you pee too much. Isotonic solutions are the answer, they are absorbed very quickly, replenishing fluids and getting fuel into the bloodstream fast and do not produce large amounts of urine.

If you don't want to pay for them then fine, but lets base our arguments on science and facts rather than emotion please.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol
________
Big tits tube

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler

If you don't want to pay for them then fine, but lets base our arguments on science and facts rather than emotion please.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Fine. But my comments are based on the facts I have observed whilst riding these events. They work for me. You are very welcome to disagree but people should make an informed decision on what works for them. Ruth and I are offering people alternative view points based on our experience not what you term 'emotion'.

nickwill · June 2007

In the end, you use what works for you. I struggle to take in enough normal food on rides.
I don't like having to queue at feeds, and don't want to be weighed down with pockets full of bananas etc. I find that energy bars at the beginning of a ride, followed by gels at the end, mean that I'm still in reasonable shape at the end. With regards to gels, I like SIS, because they are isotonic, don't need to be washed down with water, and so mean that I can have both my bottles full of carb drink. I usually try to consume either half a powerbar or 1 gel per hour, and about 500ml of High Five energy source per hour.
That's my nutrition solution on a hilly sportive, but I don't expect it to suit everyone.

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler

I disagree about using solid food which is not only a pain to eat when you are working really hard but is also digested very slowly. Water empties slowly from the gut too and makes you pee too much. Isotonic solutions are the answer, they are absorbed very quickly, replenishing fluids and getting fuel into the bloodstream fast and do not produce large amounts of urine.

If you don't want to pay for them then fine, but lets base our arguments on science and facts rather than emotion please.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My comments are based upon fact of my own experience. I would also think that our digestive systems have evolved to a pretty effective level using normal foods, and not processed maltodextrin with a bit of Potassium chloride bunged in. I never used them years ago when racing, have just started to, to try to get the extra "edge" but thus far all I have experienced is same old hunger knock after the same intensity/time and a nausea that I don't get with normal food. Cost is irrelevant, unless it doesn't do what bit says on the tin.

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

BeaconRuth · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler

I disagree about using solid food which is not only a pain to eat when you are working really hard but is also digested very slowly. Water empties slowly from the gut too and makes you pee too much. Isotonic solutions are the answer, they are absorbed very quickly, replenishing fluids and getting fuel into the bloodstream fast and do not produce large amounts of urine.

If you don't want to pay for them then fine, but lets base our arguments on science and facts rather than emotion please.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd be very interested to read the science which shows the detrimental effect of "water empyting slowly from the gut" on a cycling performance of, say, a 100 mile sportif (or better still for a 100 mile TT since that's what I'm more likely to do) if you could provide a link please, Domtyler?

Also, I'd be interested in the scientific proof of the performance improvement from isotonic solutions getting fuel into the bloodstream fast. Surely, if you avoid allowing your blood sugar to drop to a critical level, there's no need for a particularly rapid injection of energy into the bloodstream. Compared to a continual topping-up of energy from a stomach that's gradually digesting small amounts of normal food, what is the benefit of getting energy rapidly to the blood? And, more importantly, what exactly are the scientifcally predicted performance gains?

Paul-B · June 2007

Aren't there 2 issues here: one is that isotonic drinks are more effective for rehydration than water - there is supposed to be scientific argument for this, and you can't do very much if you're dehydrated. The second is that under heavy load blood flow around the intestines is diverted elsewhere and rates of digestion can't keep up with the demand for fuel, hence the need for a faster way of absorbing glucose than you'd get from regular food.

An example of the scientific argument is here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... t=Abstract

Note the conclusion: "water alone is ineffective in promoting rehydration compared with an isotonic, plasma-like ORS."

BeaconRuth · June 2007

Thanks for the link, Paul-B, but the conclusion, more accurately quoted is:

"When fluid intake after periods of fluid loss, such as induced by exercise or transport, is not accompanied by food intake, the present study has clearly demonstrated that water alone is ineffective in promoting rehydration compared with an isotonic, plasma-like ORS."

and I've always understood this to be true.

My point previously was that solid food with plain water are adequate for rehydration (and for energy) but this scientific paper doesn't say anything on that point.

simmers · June 2007

That study was in horses...

Guess the findings can be transferred to other mammals like humans?

kenbaxter · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simmers

That study was in horses...

Guess the findings can be transferred to other mammals like humans?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmmm. Didn;t see any horses on the Fondo. Did see a few donkeys though - mostly in Discovery kit [;)]

Booboocp · June 2007

Along with sportives, I ride much longer distances.

I typically ride a 12 hr Audax without collecting any food on route, preferring to carry everything with me. This is malt loaf, flapjack and the odd banana. I also use various electrolyte/energy powders in little bags, along with just plain water.

It's usual for me to do the second half of a ride faster than the first, which indicates I've got the eating/drinking part right - or I'm going too easy early on... [}:)]

Event Website: http://www.whiteroseclassic.co.uk

Tom Butcher · June 2007

You aren't really riding that hard that you can't digest food on a 6-7 hour sportif - it's not like a 50 mile TT where I would agree you don't want to be stuffing an apple pie and a flapjack into your mouth at half way.

Warning about well known bike shop removed at request of moderators.

bahzob · June 2007

Re specialist vs normal foods. Doing Highclere this weekend and had already opted to try using "normal" foods on this ride, though continue to drink isotonic. Few reasons for this:
> After 3 days in Wessex got sick of the taste of bars.
> "Scientific" interest to see how I felt in comparision to specialist food (though I know a sample size of 1 is not very robust)
> Guilt about arriving back at the finish with less wrappers than I started. (I figured I could unwrap all the bars in advance and put in a single bag to avoid this. But then figured if do this may as well just buy some fig newtons/malt loaf/raisins instead

BeaconRuth · June 2007

So where has Domtyler gone with his science and facts? I'd really like to read the evidence now! [:(]

domtyler · June 2007

Apologies, I didn't know you were all waiting for me!

Unfortunately most sports nutrition sites are blocked to me at work and there have been one or two supporting posts above anyway but my points are mainly that:

-Solid food is harder to digest than liquids or gels as the blood supply has been diverted away from the gut. This effect can suppress hunger too causing you to eat less than you should.
-Energy drinks make it far easier to consume the correct amount of carbos as it can be weighed out more precisely than real food
-Many people find plain water hard to drink in sufficient quantities, not a problem for sports drinks.
-Energy drinks made from sugar polymers can be palatable at very high concentrations unlike plain sugary drinks and foods.

***Am off home, will continue this post later.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Porridge not Petrol
________
SWED

Unknown · June 2007

Energy products are very easy to carry and store on the bike, that and they are very clearly labeled as to their contents. For a long ride I like to know how many grammes of carbs I'm taking on to make sure I'm getting enough calories. I also find for a specifically triathlon purpose that 'real' food sits heavy on the stomach when I start to run so I stick to gels which are easily absorbed on the last couple of hours on the bike.

"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darber muá man schweigen."

BeaconRuth · June 2007

Thanks for coming back, Domtyler.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by domtyler
-Solid food is harder to digest than liquids or gels as the blood supply has been diverted away from the gut. This effect can suppress hunger too causing you to eat less than you should.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd still like to see some evidence. Has anyone demonstrated the performance gains from using sports liquids and gels - in a quantifiable way?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">-Energy drinks make it far easier to consume the correct amount of carbos as it can be weighed out more precisely than real food<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Is it so very important to know precisely the correct amount of carbs to consume? Is it such a very exact science? Maybe I'm wrong after all these years to just eat a banana and a few fig rolls on a 90 mile training ride....... what if I ate one fig roll too few, or even one fig roll too many? Would this impair my performance?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">-Many people find plain water hard to drink in sufficient quantities, not a problem for sports drinks.
-Energy drinks made from sugar polymers can be palatable at very high concentrations unlike plain sugary drinks and foods.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">These two points are very subjective and not really pertinent in the 'science and facts' argument, are they? (My personal view is that plain water is far more palatable and easier to consume in large volumes than any other liquid.)

how many carbs for a sportif?

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