Should you alert burglars when there's cops around

Mike Healey · June 2007

IIRC, yellow cameras were introduced after much campaigning by such as the ABD that hidden camereas were "unfair" and that, if only they were visible, they would be a deterrent to speeding motorists and so fewer drivers would speed.

So govt caves in to motoring lobby and cameras turn yellow and are accompanied by signs saying "Warning speed cameras".

So, obviously, the number of drivers caught have gone down - haven't they?

Fast (sic) forward and now ABD and SS (aka Numpties Inc.)are complaining about the increase in the numbers of drivers caught speeding.

Bit of a conundrum, there, surely

Organising the Bradford Kids Saturday Bike Club at the Richard Dunn Sports Centre since 1998

Rhythm Thief · June 2007

I don't really care whether speed cameras are hidden or not, as a professional driver. I drive at or below the speed limit because the limit's there, not because I might get caught. We need to get society back to a point where people do something because it's the right thing to do, not because they're scared of being punished when caught doing the wrong thing. How we achieve that I have no idea.

________________________
I'm the national treasure, and I hate noise.
My fixie
My two main modes of transport

ankev1 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cab

At blackspots I'd like to see well hidden cameras but very visible signs reminding people that there are cameras there. Vote Arch for Prime Minister
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The only possible reason you could want speed cameras to be hidden is vindictiveness against motorists. If you wanted speed cameras to fulfill their intended purpose, of getting people to slow down, then you would support them being visible, as when motorists see them, they slow down.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

(Insert Dity) - I'm a Genius!!!!!

What would be much cheaper would be to install a small disc on a visible position with the speed limit promulgated clearly.

Then all the motorists would see this and slow down accordingly.

There would be no arrogant idiots who beleieved that they were above the law and the limit did not apply to them.

So sweet and simple......

Unfortunately also very naive. Unfortunately there will always be the arrogant idiots who think they are above the law.

The repeater signs are all that is needed to:<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Fulfill their intended purpose, of getting people to slow down, then you would support them being visible, as when motorists see them, they slow down.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A hidden camera is the best way to deal with the idiots who cannot or will not obey these instructions.

There is no victimisation, it is a free choice to disregard the signs and any punitive measure is a simple result ogf that illegal behaviour.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

maybrick · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Eat My Dust Posted
Would you defend/justify shoplifting, it does no one any harm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

would never have made it thru my student years if tesco's hadn't been so easy to lift from.

_______________

i'm not bound by your earthling rules.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rhythm Thief

I don't really care whether speed cameras are hidden or not, as a professional driver. I drive at or below the speed limit because the limit's there, not because I might get caught. We need to get society back to a point where people do something because it's the right thing to do, not because they're scared of being punished when caught doing the wrong thing. How we achieve that I have no idea.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So if the government told you the limit was 5mph, everywhere, you'd blindly just agree with it would you?

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cunobelin

A hidden camera is the best way to deal with the idiots who cannot or will not obey these instructions.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There's never any situation when someone cannot obey the rules.

Asterixcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tourist Tony

I believe they are all required to be yellow and visible.
Old Knobber Bonj has accidentally brought up a valid point here, even though he tells us he hasn't got a car.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bonj/Ben/The Boss, we know your BMW was up for sale and apparently you now have no car. Given your attitude to car-related issues, would it be tactless to ask if you are still a full driving licence holder?

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

Eat My Dust · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

So if the government told you the limit was 5mph, everywhere, you'd blindly just agree with it would you?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If they were ever to impose such a ridiculous law, then yes, as it would be the law. Of course you could decide to ignore this law, and when you got caught you'd have to pay a fine(it's not difficult to understand, is it?)

I think if they raised the speed limit to 100mph, you'd still get numerous ar*eholes going faster than that.

SNAPS

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by maybrick

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Eat My Dust Posted
Would you defend/justify shoplifting, it does no one any harm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

would never have made it thru my student years if tesco's hadn't been so easy to lift from.

_______________

i'm not bound by your earthling rules.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Were bikes easy to steal as well? And what about burglary? Any problems?

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chuckles

Hi,

It was revealed yesterday that registration plate theft is at epidemic levels, the numbers of uninsured and unlicensed, unregistered vehicles is around 2 million in the UK. What we need is a return of our national road traffic police force. I agree with cameras placed at hotspots though.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This problem is growing and growing; it means that the generally law-abiding are the ones being prosecuted, while the real criminals escape scot-free.

Asterixcp · June 2007

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

davidmam · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chuckles

Hi,

It was revealed yesterday that registration plate theft is at epidemic levels, the numbers of uninsured and unlicensed, unregistered vehicles is around 2 million in the UK. What we need is a return of our national road traffic police force. I agree with cameras placed at hotspots though.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This problem is growing and growing; it means that the generally law-abiding are the ones being prosecuted, while the real criminals escape scot-free.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which is why we need more *manned* speed and other controls. Other countries have no problem with pulling every driver in for a breath test. (Last noticed this in Norway. I'd gone one way down the road and noticed a police check in the opposite direction. Coming back I was within the limit, slowed down in good time for the 50(kmh) limit for the village to have Mr aggressive lean on his accellerator and pass me. Everyone was pulled for a breath test, but they had extra words for mr aggressive which will have included a substantial fine.)

Hidden cameras are not a problem. Eventually you get in the habit of avoiding uncertainty by driving at or below the speed limit. Or winning yourself a bike if you are too stupid to learn to drive sensibly. And having manned speed controls allows things like tax, insurance etc. to be checked as well and a substantial portion of the 10% taken off the road.

..d

Fat bloke on a bike

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ian_oli

Surely both. Visible by black spots, invisible and randomly spread elsewhere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">But in the locations you describe as 'elsewhere', there's often no justification for having them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With approximately 9 people dying every day of every week of every year on our roads then I reckon any means used in slowing traffic down is to be welcomed.
Not every accident is due to excessive speed but I'd wager the vast majority are.
What I'd like to see implimented more are SPECS cameras that monitor a whole section of road and work out average speed.

They have been installed on a 30 mile stretch of A road close to where I live. There are many people enjoying life today that would not otherwise be had the cameras not been installed. Deaths on that stretch of road have fallen significantly.

A train crash in which one person dies hits the news hedlines for a week, 9 ervy day on the roads may make the local rag [:(!]
It's time society woke up .
__________________

If it doesn't fit, force it
__________________

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Commuter

Not every accident is due to excessive speed but I'd wager the vast majority are.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

All the research I've ever seen and my experience of years of prosecuting motoring cases is that the major cause of accidents is driver error/inattention. This is greatly exacerbated by excessive speed.

Unfortunately a number of motorists thought that driving slowly meant they did not have to pay attention to the road.

Asterixcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Apart from the fact that it would not have a genuine plate incorporating a micro-chip and would therefore be highly suspect?

Regarding speed, I was returning from Leeds Braford airport at 1 a.m. on Tuesday along the dual carriageway A64. The road was fairly quiet and I had just passed an HGV with my lights on dip with an oncoming vehicle or two, and doing 70mph. A largish animal suddenly appeared wandering across right in front of me, dog or maybe large fox, and I was able to swerve very slightly and miss it. Neither I nor my passenger could believe how I avoided it, but I would not have liked to try the same at a higher speed, clear and dry as the road was.

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Apart from the fact that it would not have a genuine plate incorporating a micro-chip and would therefore be highly suspect?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you saying there are plans to retro-fit ALL cars with chipped plates? I've not heard of this.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

All the research I've ever seen and my experience of years of prosecuting motoring cases is that the major cause of accidents is driver error/inattention. This is greatly exacerbated by excessive speed.

Unfortunately a number of motorists thought that driving slowly meant they did not have to pay attention to the road.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is the exact problem that our nanny-state culture of draconian speed limits causes.

Asterixcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Apart from the fact that it would not have a genuine plate incorporating a micro-chip and would therefore be highly suspect?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you saying there are plans to retro-fit ALL cars with chipped plates? I've not heard of this.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No I don't think that the string of words that my posts contained could in any way be taken to mean that. However, there is no reason against such a possibility except the poor hard done-by motorist whingeing yet again about the nanny state, before going on to moan about the absence of Laura Norder.

Anyway the costs of such a measure would be a drop in the ocean against what sodding garages get away charging.

Pour vivre heureux, vivons le v‚lo..

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Apart from the fact that it would not have a genuine plate incorporating a micro-chip and would therefore be highly suspect?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you saying there are plans to retro-fit ALL cars with chipped plates? I've not heard of this.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No I don't think that the string of words that my posts contained could in any way be taken to mean that. However, there is no reason against such a possibility except the poor hard done-by motorist whingeing yet again about the nanny state, before going on to moan about the absence of Laura Norder.

Anyway the costs of such a measure would be a drop in the ocean against what sodding garages get away charging.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Aster

I was talking about the real world we're in...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

...not some future micro-chipped fantasy world.

CometGirl · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

All the research I've ever seen and my experience of years of prosecuting motoring cases is that the major cause of accidents is driver error/inattention. This is greatly exacerbated by excessive speed.

Unfortunately a number of motorists thought that driving slowly meant they did not have to pay attention to the road.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is the exact problem that our nanny-state culture of draconian speed limits causes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry, but no - that's caused entirely by stupidity. And if a driver is that thick then they shouldn't be driving anything without "Fisher Price" on the side.

pzycoman · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which is why you should have a law that says if your car is unregistered, it gets siezed then crushed - Its not registered, so who says your the owner? [:D]

spire · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pzycoman

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spire

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Asterix

Apparently non-nickable ones are being developed. Physical stealing can be prevented by using plastic that is very brittle and breaks on removal; virtual theft (by copying) is preventable by incorporating a micro-chip so only the genuine plate can be read by a scanner.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which is any use when it comes to cars that are legally bought but not registered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which is why you should have a law that says if your car is unregistered, it gets siezed then crushed - Its not registered, so who says your the owner? [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Indeed!!

And why aren't they doing it now?

Set up road-blocks in all dubious areas and immediately impound/crush all cars that show on ANPR as unregistered/untaxed/uninsured!!

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

All the research I've ever seen and my experience of years of prosecuting motoring cases is that the major cause of accidents is driver error/inattention. This is greatly exacerbated by excessive speed.

Unfortunately a number of motorists thought that driving slowly meant they did not have to pay attention to the road.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is the exact problem that our nanny-state culture of draconian speed limits causes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry, but no - that's caused entirely by stupidity. And if a driver is that thick then they shouldn't be driving anything without "Fisher Price" on the side.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quite a number of them stressed that they were driving very slowly because they wanted to admire the lovely views in North Wales. One <s>woman</s> person I prosecuted admitted that she'd left the road and driven into a hedge but still couldn't see how she was at fault.

CometGirl · June 2007

"Admiring the view" while driving sounds remarkably similar to the "mild agoraphobia" which sadly afflicted so many of the shoplifters I did, causing them to rush from a shop still clutching the items they had fully intended to pay for....

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

"Admiring the view" while driving sounds remarkably similar to the "mild agoraphobia" which sadly afflicted so many of the shoplifters I did, causing them to rush from a shop still clutching the items they had fully intended to pay for....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"I don't know what came over me," was trotted out by a considerable number of sex offenders.

"I went over to see what was happening," by those who'd been involved in street punchups.

"I told the policeman that my mate hadn't done nothing," by those charged with assaulting the police.

"I wasn't drunk," by those whose statements said they'd had 12 pints and then gone out drinking.

"He was just picking on me," by a lad who'd been stopped by the police for his own safety because he was walking the wrong way along a dual carriageway. Once stopped they'd found him to be carrying a fair amount of dope.

And the worst mitigation? A bog standard possession of cannabis where the mags were about to impose their standard fine until the defence solicitor said, "My client was educated at a major public school and Oxford and has a very senior job in the media." He promptly got a much heavier fine on the basis that it was nice to find someone who could afford to pay it!

CometGirl · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Patrick Stevens

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CometGirl

"Admiring the view" while driving sounds remarkably similar to the "mild agoraphobia" which sadly afflicted so many of the shoplifters I did, causing them to rush from a shop still clutching the items they had fully intended to pay for....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"I don't know what came over me," was trotted out by a considerable number of sex offenders.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Presumably the correct reply is "a thirteen year old boy..."

Sorry... [:D]

Tourist Tony · June 2007

Oh dear me......

If I had a stalker, I would hug it and kiss it and call it George...or Dick

Cunobelin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> This is the exact problem that our nanny-state culture of draconian speed limits causes.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Priceless!

I dare say most criminals feel that the rules are "draconian"

Do paedophiles find an age of consent "draconian"?

Laws are set by society to control those who will not or cannot obey the societal standards.

PS - by "cannot" I mean lack the basic skills to do so.

He that buys land buys many stones.
He that buys flesh buys many bones.
He that buys eggs buys many shells,
But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.
(Unattributed Trad.)

Should you alert burglars when there's cops around

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