Accident: Fulham Road/Pelham Street, London

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lance Foghorn

It's sad how a post highlighting a serious accident has become a place for bitching and backstabbing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Almost right but not quite. It's sad how some cyclists enjoy leaping to the judgement of others would have better covered it, me thinks. Gazzputt's contribution above being, by implication, another example of this behaviour.

Theo Stegers

ianamc · June 2007

I'd think a quick read of any of your uninspired posts would be example enough.
They don't know, you don't know. They are offering opinion as just that - not offering it up as a famous TS 'fact' backed by evidence which we must apparently find for ourselves.
Before you ask your next stupid question 'we must be told', stop to think for a minute on the implied in your posts - not the actual, but the implied.
It might answer a few of your 'give me an example' questions.

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ianamc

I'd think a quick read of any of your uninspired posts would be example enough.
They don't know, you don't know. They are offering opinion as just that - not offering it up as a famous TS 'fact' backed by evidence which we must apparently find for ourselves.
Before you ask your next stupid question 'we must be told', stop to think for a minute on the implied in your posts - not the actual, but the implied.
It might answer a few of your 'give me an example' questions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"They don't know and I don't know." How true. It's why I didn't offer any judgement, let alone a clearly critical one. Why do so many cyclists want to believe the maimed/killed cyclist was in the wrong in such incidents? You apparently among them.

The numbers I obtained from TfL, that I think you refer to, were published and picked over at length. CupofT did us all a favour by putting them on a spreadsheet. He will send it to you if you ask him. I do not believe any of the five or is it six cyclists killed at traffic light controlled junctions in London since Deecmber last year were doing anything other than complying with the lights. I believe two of them were reported to have arrived at the lights before the other traffic. What is it that makes confronting this uncomfortable for you?

Perhaps you should back up your assertions about my posts with some examples. Help Peejay78 out. He seems to be struggling...

Theo Stegers

ianamc · June 2007

Classic. You end with the examples question.
I'm not saying who is to blame - I have no idea. At a guess its either the cyclist or the driver, or a combination of both, but who knows.
The numbers refer to deaths at lights - were they on the way to wait at the lights or to jump the lights? Who knows - not me, not you and not TfL.

**Ignore the bit about judgement vs opinion, i seem to have had brain failure**

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ianamc

Classic. You end with the examples question.
I'm not saying who is to blame - I have no idea. At a guess its either the cyclist or the driver, or a combination of both, but who knows.
The numbers refer to deaths at lights - were they on the way to wait at the lights or to jump the lights? Who knows - not me, not you and not TfL.
I don't think anyone is offering judgement, they are offering opinion and no matter how much you don't like it they cannot be wrong, its their opinion. It only becomes a problem when people think their opinion is fact.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The examples question keeps coming up because you nor anyone else has come up with one so far. Please explain why you want to believe the cyclist was in the wrong. This is a clear implication of the banal "undertaking" observation. The undertaking remark is obviously judgemental.

TfL are likely to know a fair bit more than anyone here about the causes of these incidents. They are on record as attributing most of the fault in these incidents to the HGV driver.

Are you saying opinions can't be wrong because they are opinions and not facts? Curious if you are.

I think you are in the anti RLJ camp and like the rest of your cohort just don't like being challenged. It's going to get worse for you. All the signs are that the proportion of cyclists who jump lights is on the increase.

Theo Stegers

FatBlokeFromFelixstowe · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers
[br and like the rest of your cohort just don't like being challenged. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is this your pot Mr Kettle ?

My e bay bargain œ 31.05
http://tinyurl.com/366awv

Unknown · June 2007

All the signs are that the proportion of cyclists who jump lights is on the increase.

Thus giving ammo to car/bus/lorry drivers.

RLJ is irresponsible whatever way you try to dress it up.

Be bright Be seen

Accident: Fulham Road/Pelham Street, London

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