Accident: Fulham Road/Pelham Street, London

gxr · June 2007

Just (8:40am Tuesday) cycled past this junction. Nasty looking accident. Looks like a coach trying to make a left turn from Fulham Road into Pelham Street. Cycle crushed under front nearside wheel of coach. Cyclist motionless, ambulance and police in attendance....really hope he's OK.

Would appreciate any further news if you hear any.

TimothyO · June 2007

It looks suspiciously like it was a fatality. There were a lot of policemem around, the entire area around the bus and bike was taped off, they hadn't let the passengers off of the coach. If it wasn't a fatality, it was a very serious injury.

It does look a lot like a cyclist undertaking a left turning coach, and a coach would need a lot of room to make that corner, so the driver probably wasn't concentrating on cyclists coming up the inside.

As a related aside, I tried to take some photos for the record, often in these cases nobody seems to know what happened, and it seems like it might be useful to the likes of the LCC, CTC, Sustrans and their ilk, and the police really didn't want me to. Since it's on a public street, open to pretty much anyone, and I wasn't blocking access to anyone, or creating a nuisance, or anything. Can they actually stop me taking a photo?

<hr noshade size="1">
Yes, actually it is Rocket Science.

slowfen · June 2007

Timo very inconsiderate.

The police will be taking photos etc which could be got under FOI

spasypaddy · June 2007

this makes my accident last week seem quite inconsequential, i hope to god it wasnt a fatality and that the cyclist is ok

http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bikeim9.jpg

hevipedal · June 2007

not fatal

BentMikey · June 2007

Thanks Hevi! Phew...

My bikes
My skates

If I had a baby elephant, I'd teach it to skate.

il_principe · June 2007

Very sad, glad it's not fatal. When will people learn not to undertake large vehicles though? Particularly left-turning large vehicles, surely we all realise the inherent danger in doing this?

My Best Bike

cupofteacp · June 2007

When people stop moaning about RLJing and start talking about what really kills cyclists
Cars/ Lorries turning left and cyclists undertaking / being feed up the inside
Cyclists riding off the pavement into the traffic without looking

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

TimothyO · June 2007

Yes, I'm glad to hear it wasn't fatal, but looking at the state of the bike, I don't imagine it was a trivial injury either.

I guess people can get impatient, especially at that time of day, if they're a bit late for work, it doesn't look obviously dangerous. I suspect the coach had gone wide to make the turning, and to some cyclists that just looks like a nice big gap to whizz through, rather than the likes of you or I who see it as a really bad place to go. Ho hum.

<hr noshade size="1">
Yes, actually it is Rocket Science.

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jashburnham

Very sad, glad it's not fatal. When will people learn not to undertake large vehicles though? Particularly left-turning large vehicles, surely we all realise the inherent danger in doing this?

My Best Bike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


JashB, CupofT is too polite. Isn't it about time you learned it's best to keep your gob shut about things you know little of. I recall your stupid speculations about the cyclist killed on the Embankment near Blackfriars earlier this year.

TimothyQ Exactly what does a undertaking cyclist crushed by a coach look like after the event? I wonder what you would have said if the left turning D3 coach at a light controlled junction on The Highway had crushed me a couple of months ago. The clown driver had seen me, had gone wide, had underestimated how fast he had to go to get round me, had nearly hit railings on his off side and had just managed to stop before he ran into the front of a car waiting at the lights and wanting to turn out onto The Highway. Had he hit me, or I him and you had come along after the event you might well have concluded the driver had been at pains to avoid me. You would have been completely wrong. Your speculation as to the cause of the Pelham Road/Fulham Road incident is crass and misplaced.

Theo Stegers

chuckles · June 2007

Wow, this sounds horrible, poor guy or girl. How come we get so much publicity about people on bikes jumping over the lights but no-one says anything about avoiding the dangers of large vehicles? I am sure that this person would now be dead if it was a lorry as the wheels are totally open and would have sucked him/her under. Has anyone got any links to details?

Chuckles

TimothyO · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers
... Your speculation as to the cause of the Pelham Road/Fulham Road incident is crass and misplaced.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, speculation is what people do on forums like this, unless we have actually seen it happen, we do not know exactly what happened. I've seen vehicles hit people, or come very close to hitting people who have done exactly that, it's common enough that it clearly goes wrong from time to time.

If you think that discussions of accidents, their possible causes, and why people do them is misplaced in a forum discussing commuting, then you are probably misplaced, and should probably find somewhere else to moan at people.

<hr noshade size="1">
Yes, actually it is Rocket Science.

rgisme · June 2007

If it wasn't a fatality, it must definitely have been serious, and most likely serious enough that it was considered possible it would turn into one, so I wouldn't breath a sigh of relief just yet unless you have detailed information on the victim's condition which is probably not yet in the public domain. Pelham Street was still taped off when I went by an hour later.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers


JashB, CupofT is too polite. Isn't it about time you learned it's best to keep your gob shut about things you know little of. I recall your stupid speculations about the cyclist killed on the Embankment near Blackfriars earlier this year.

TimothyQ Exactly what does a undertaking cyclist crushed by a coach look like after the event? I wonder what you would have said if the left turning D3 coach at a light controlled junction on The Highway had crushed me a couple of months ago. The clown driver had seen me, had gone wide, had underestimated how fast he had to go to get round me, had nearly hit railings on his off side and had just managed to stop before he ran into the front of a car waiting at the lights and wanting to turn out onto The Highway. Had he hit me, or I him and you had come along after the event you might well have concluded the driver had been at pains to avoid me. You would have been completely wrong. Your speculation as to the cause of the Pelham Road/Fulham Road incident is crass and misplaced.

Theo Stegers
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not sure that your experience is nec. the norm. lots of accidents are caused because cyclists filter up the inside and drivers do not look.

As a cyclist you have to be vigilant about these things.. because no matter what happens, whose fault etc.. you will lose!

I had exactly the same thing I came up a bus lane and a car crossed in front of me.. she should have looked and either allowed me to stop or seen that I was stopping. She didn't. I hit her and ruined my nice bike, broke 2 fingers and my wrist... Her fault. I lost.

IMO cyclists need to realise that people are fallible and just because they are in the wrong does not mean that you are going to be fine! it is not an excuse but realistically if you want to survive then you have to understand and react to it!

Jacomus-rides-Gen · June 2007

I agree with Iron_man. It is a sad sad fact that no matter what happens, a cyclist will come off worse in a collision, even with a pedestrian.

I am not commenting on the circumstances of the incident in the original topic of the post, mearly that this is another horrible reminder that we all need to be as careful and vigilant as possible out on the roads.

I've had impatient cyclists tell me to get out of the way if I'm holding a railling waiting behind a bus or truck, that is in a queue waiting to turn left. I've seen a cyclist pull out from my draft and smash into the side of a left-turning bus as he went to undertake me when I slowed for the junction.

I've also had a badly driven truck, 3 busses and numerous cars all seriously threaten my life through appalling driving and flagrant aggression whilst cycling. Not to mention diesel slicks, stray traffic cones and temporary barriers, cement sacks and once a giant pile of road salt.

Its six of one, half a dozen of another but only 1 casualty.

_________________________
Quote: "25mph is pretty fast when you aren't wearing a car..."

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TimothyO

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers
... Your speculation as to the cause of the Pelham Road/Fulham Road incident is crass and misplaced.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, speculation is what people do on forums like this, unless we have actually seen it happen, we do not know exactly what happened. I've seen vehicles hit people, or come very close to hitting people who have done exactly that, it's common enough that it clearly goes wrong from time to time.

If you think that discussions of accidents, their possible causes, and why people do them is misplaced in a forum discussing commuting, then you are probably misplaced, and should probably find somewhere else to moan at people.

<hr noshade size="1">
Yes, actually it is Rocket Science.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you are trying to patronise me I think you will find yourself out of your depth quite quickly. Your speculation about the cause of this incident is banal and crass. The person who may yet die - and if he or she does not, sadly it is only likely to be a month or so before the next such incident - is not available to defend themselves against your stupidity.

I would be interested to know what motivated you to pedal the undertaking line in this instance. Do you think it delivers insight? Just in case you do it has been said before, ad nauseam. Despite what you think you might have observed about the possible reasons for cyclists being crushed by large vehicles turning left at traffic light controlled junctions the reports of the five incidents this year, not to mention the 130 cupofT is very familiar with do not bear out what you think. So why the speculation? Is it a bit of self agrandisement? Are you trying to tell us what an experienced and worldly cyclist you are? Crass is the word, look it up. Tell me otherwise.


Theo Stegers

cupofteacp · June 2007

Theo, I'm looking forward to winter and when the road's and this forum get back to normal.

Cyclists will always lose, but it does'nt get away from the fact that we are told to cycle on the left, forced into the gutter, sorry cycle lane.

There's a classic juntion on my way home just past Stratford station, three lanes of traffic, with the inside lane a bus lane. As you come to a juntion, left turn only, the bus lane disappears and a cycle lane begins. This happens about 20 feet from the juntion. The cycle lane continues across the juntion, fooling you into think that your allowed to proceed, unfortuntaly the car etc just cut across you to turn left.

We're "told" to stay over to the left which is how people end up getting hurt, I feel and I know this is bring up old stat that 85% of women cyclist killed by lorrys turning left is relevant, and I don't feel you can just say "well, it's there fault they should'nt have been there"

Why were they there, because they were obeying the law. I'd like to know how many of these lorries were indicating there turn. It should be the responsiblity of the motorist to avoid the cyclist as it is in Europe

I get upset when anyone gets hurts and I getting *&^*&^*& with some of the stuff people are saying

Anyway roll on winter

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

gxr · June 2007

As the original poster, I didn't envisage that this thread would turn into such a heated discussion. I just wanted to find out if the guy was OK.

There are several scenarios that could have resulted in the aftermath that I saw. Although we can all speculate based on our own experiences and statistic, it's premature to apportion blame for this particular incident at this stage.

I'm just hoping that I don't see bunches of flowers there on the way home tonight...

cupofteacp · June 2007

Agreed

15 * 2 * 5
* 46 = Happiness

TimothyO · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers
If you are trying to patronise me I think you will find yourself out of your depth quite quickly. Your speculation about the cause of this incident is banal and crass.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, you choose to take an aggressive and yes, patronising approach to my comments, you also choose to take the view that you knew better than anyone else about such incidents, because you have recently had a close call, when plenty of other users on this forum have been in similar situations.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers
The person who may yet die - and if he or she does not, sadly it is only likely to be a month or so before the next such incident - is not available to defend themselves against your stupidity.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Whereas I am here to argue against your unpleasent, presumptious, and downright offence behaviour.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers
I would be interested to know what motivated you to pedal the undertaking line in this instance. Do you think it delivers insight? Just in case you do it has been said before, ad nauseam. Despite what you think you might have observed about the possible reasons for cyclists being crushed by large vehicles turning left at traffic light controlled junctions the reports of the five incidents this year, not to mention the 130 cupofT is very familiar with do not bear out what you think. So why the speculation? Is it a bit of self agrandisement? Are you trying to tell us what an experienced and worldly cyclist you are? Crass is the word, look it up. Tell me otherwise.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was merely commenting on the situation, in a fairly general sense, making no specific claims, beyond what had quite possibly happened, given the positioning of the vehicles. You choose to make a big issue out of it, you choose to explain what an experienced and wordly cyclist you are.

You clearly are self agrandising, since you do claim to have knowledge of this experience, and point out to us how close you were to having an accident. You also continue to speculate wildly about the incident yourself, with less knowledge, how are my comments crass, and yours any better?

As for definitions of crass, how about crude and unrefined, it seems to define your behaviour fairly well.

You are not a very pleasent person, why don't you go away.

<hr noshade size="1">
Yes, actually it is Rocket Science.

wildmoustache · June 2007

i saw the aftermath as well. undertaking looked a likely cause ... before the **** starts flying ... in the sense that it is a common type of accident with heavy vehicles turning left and the bike was under the bus's front left wheel. just hope the cyclist is making a recovery.

tstegers · June 2007

TimmyO and wildmoustache let's have your views on what looks like the aftermath of undertaking. Please try and make a distinction here between how this might look compared to a construction truck turning left over a traffic signal complying cyclist, who had been in an ASL and had arrived at the junction first and had started to proceed across said junction when he/she was hit, would look. Do you think it is more likely he or she would be under the front wheels or the back wheels for example? Or would it be hard to tell? Please focus on the details and tell us how you conclude the cyclist who was maimed yesterday was more likely to be in the wrong than the driver of the coach. Think about the substance behind your intuitive reaction and share it with us. Trust me a lot of people would be interested. If you cannot express it, would it not be best to shut up?

TimO, please show me where I said I knew better than anyone else about such incidents. I don't think I do so I am unlikely to say it. I do however think you don't know much. If you don't know it's best to shut up. Ask JashB, he has a long history of embarrassing himself on these forums. Certainly you do not know as much as CupofT who I believe can confirm that trucks turning left at junctions, particularly light controlled junctions are lethal.

"Unpleasent presumptious" Apart from my implied presumption that you are unimaginative at best and the evidence that you cannot spell pleasant or presumptuous - not to mention worldly or is that wordy - please give an example of my presumption. You and others like you are generally judgemental about fellow cyclists on these forums. A lot of this behaviour is self agrandising by implication. You are a good case in point. You want to pass judgement on an injured cyclist and you seem to want to be able to determine who has a say on these forums. Who are you to decide? What are your qualifications? I have had a number of disputes with contributors to these forums and I consider some of them to be complete R-soles but I can't recall thinking they should "go away" I mean where would we be without R-soles?
Crass: I prefer the OED: stupid, thick, gross. to your "crude and unrefined"

Theo Stegers

rothbook · June 2007

Calls people stupid.

Can't spell presumptuous.

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

Calls people stupid.

Can't spell presumptuous.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Who do you have in mind? If it's me look again old boy or you might end up looking stupid...

Theo Stegers

peejay78 · June 2007

i find your arrogance and alpha-male posturing breathtaking, theo. using a degree of articulacy to present opinion as fact and presenting yourself as a god-given arbiter of dispute, driven by the need to forsake ambiguity and complextiy, and exist within tramlined-parameters makes you dangerous, not right. your manipulation of language is problematic, your attitude to fellow posters on the forum a real issue, and your self-belief and sense of righteousness borders on the fascistic - the fascist that lurks at the core of liberal i suspect. i really wish you'd calm down and stop misusing words, be less semantic, assertive, and controlling. as for hijacking threads to get your opinion across and chastise others under the spurious notion of moralistic intervention, road safety, statistical purity, that's just a part of it. you're a playground bully.

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peejay78

i find your arrogance and alpha-male posturing breathtaking, theo. using a degree of articulacy to present opinion as fact and presenting yourself as a god-given arbiter of dispute, driven by the need to forsake ambiguity and complextiy, and exist within tramlined-parameters makes you dangerous, not right. your manipulation of language is problematic, your attitude to fellow posters on the forum a real issue, and your self-belief and sense of righteousness borders on the fascistic - the fascist that lurks at the core of liberal i suspect. i really wish you'd calm down and stop misusing words, be less semantic, assertive, and controlling. as for hijacking threads to get your opinion across and chastise others under the spurious notion of moralistic intervention, road safety, statistical purity, that's pretty much beyond the pale.

my sympathies go to the cyclist injured.

winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Be a good fellow and give me an example of that lot. Or indeed an example of any one of the things you accuse me of.

Theo Stegers

peejay78 · June 2007

i edited it slightly, not that it's any different, chiefly to include the phrase "playground bully".

il_principe · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tstegers

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jashburnham

Very sad, glad it's not fatal. When will people learn not to undertake large vehicles though? Particularly left-turning large vehicles, surely we all realise the inherent danger in doing this?

My Best Bike
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


JashB, CupofT is too polite. Isn't it about time you learned it's best to keep your gob shut about things you know little of. I recall your stupid speculations about the cyclist killed on the Embankment near Blackfriars earlier this year.

TimothyQ Exactly what does a undertaking cyclist crushed by a coach look like after the event? I wonder what you would have said if the left turning D3 coach at a light controlled junction on The Highway had crushed me a couple of months ago. The clown driver had seen me, had gone wide, had underestimated how fast he had to go to get round me, had nearly hit railings on his off side and had just managed to stop before he ran into the front of a car waiting at the lights and wanting to turn out onto The Highway. Had he hit me, or I him and you had come along after the event you might well have concluded the driver had been at pains to avoid me. You would have been completely wrong. Your speculation as to the cause of the Pelham Road/Fulham Road incident is crass and misplaced.

Theo Stegers
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh shut up Theo (king of Speculation) Stegers. I was starting to hope that you and your tiresome posts had vacated this forum; sad to see this isn't the case. [:(]

My Best Bike

tstegers · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peejay78

i edited it slightly, not that it's any different, chiefly to include the phrase "playground bully".

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll take it that you are struggling to find an example then. What do you really want to say in your earlier and er'so wordy post, that I have taken some of your toys away? Is that where the playground metaphor comes from?

Theo Stegers

Unknown · June 2007

Anyway back to the point if your stupid enough to go up the inside of a lorry at lights your taking your life in your hands simple as.

I do though wish a speedy recovery.

Be bright Be seen

Lance Foghorn · June 2007

It's sad how a post highlighting a serious accident has become a place for bitching and backstabbing.

Accident: Fulham Road/Pelham Street, London

Comments

Categories