Increasing average speed

richardjallen · June 2007

Despite the effort, long rides at the weekend and short blasts in the evenings my average speed is not changing much, although my endurance certainly has. I think my average speed of 18mph is pretty abysmal. What tips are there for increasing this? Just to break 20mph would be the first goal.

nmcgann · June 2007

It can take a lot of work to increase average speed from 18mph to 20mph - it took me a winter of turbo training and loss of 3st of lard to make that jump.

An average of 18mph isn't bad anyway, lots and lots of people are slower than that. BTW, why specifically do you want to be faster?

Neil

richardjallen · June 2007

Just for fun and the sense of achievement I guess.

SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

join a club, do a TT, and then you'll find out how easy 20 mph is....[:)]

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

vernonlevy · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by richardjallen

Just for fun and the sense of achievement I guess.
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I'm sure that Hull Thursday CC will take you under their wings. 18mph is fast enough for me for now [:p]

portuguese mike · June 2007

You don't say what terrain or distances your riding - averaging 18mph for 50 miles on a hilly route for example would be pretty good IMO. in any case as others here have said 18mph is not bad regardless but if you do want to improve then TT's are definatley a good way of going about it.

pm

Toks · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by richardjallen

Despite the effort, long rides at the weekend and short blasts in the evenings my average speed is not changing much, although my endurance certainly has. I think my average speed of 18mph is pretty abysmal. What tips are there for increasing this? Just to break 20mph would be the first goal.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Don't be so hard on yourself mate. 18mph average is slightly above club run pace from my experience. Also it depends. Is it a lumpy or rough course is it windy etc? How long are you riding for. 2-4 hours at 18mph average is fairly decent and also how long have you been riding for. If you're fairly new to cycling don't sweat it!you'll gradually continue to improve. If you're quite experience but lack focus a period of structured training will definitely reap good results. This can be done in many ways: joining a fast group, racing (TT or RR) or intervals. Trying to go under 30mins for a flat 10mile TT would be a good challenge. For intervals do a search on 2 x 20's, vo2max. Good luck

The Merckx Diaries On my penultimate lap I took turns with the only cyclist I know that's been lapped in a race by a young Lance Armstrong.

andyBcp · June 2007

In addition to what toks mentions, try to complete your long ride as quickly as possible, or just ride for 2hrs as fast as you can at least once a week. You'll soon be >20mph(AS).

http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk

richardjallen · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by portuguese mike

You don't say what terrain or distances your riding - averaging 18mph for 50 miles on a hilly route for example would be pretty good IMO. in any case as others here have said 18mph is not bad regardless but if you do want to improve then TT's are definatley a good way of going about it.

pm
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I average around 18 over 20 miles. Longer distances are lower. I did 86 on Sunday and averaged 15. The terrain is fairly flat with at worst short but steep hills. Wind is the limiting factor I think. I try to use the drops going into the wind and can get an extra 1-2 mph for what seems the same effort. My speed is not constant though. I slow down quite a bit then of course have to push hard to make up for it. I'm thinking I might try to go at a slightly slower but more maintainable speed and then increase speed towards the end of the ride with the energy I have left.

Phil Scp · June 2007

Stamp harder on the pedals

Unknown · June 2007

Try the 2x20min intervals and vo2max intervals. Managed to increase ave speed to about 33km/hr for richmond park and 30km/hr in surreyhills for 100km +.

"People setting the pace too fast on the front are abused to slow down. Riders that do not share the work are abused. Riders that need abuse get abused and the abuse is done in every language so they get the message"

portuguese mike · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by richardjallen

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by portuguese mike

You don't say what terrain or distances your riding - averaging 18mph for 50 miles on a hilly route for example would be pretty good IMO. in any case as others here have said 18mph is not bad regardless but if you do want to improve then TT's are definatley a good way of going about it.

pm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I average around 18 over 20 miles. Longer distances are lower. I did 86 on Sunday and averaged 15. The terrain is fairly flat with at worst short but steep hills. Wind is the limiting factor I think. I try to use the drops going into the wind and can get an extra 1-2 mph for what seems the same effort. My speed is not constant though. I slow down quite a bit then of course have to push hard to make up for it. I'm thinking I might try to go at a slightly slower but more maintainable speed and then increase speed towards the end of the ride with the energy I have left.
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yes, i think warming up correctly is very important, especially on longer rides. i find that if i take it fairly easy for the first half an hour gently cranking it up to 'cruising speed' and then if i feel like it/up to it give it the full beans for the last half an hour or so, that my av speed is always higher than if i go out hard straight away.

pm

hevipedal · June 2007

Remember an increase in average speed from 18 - 20 is a 10% increase in performance - don't expect it overnight.

 Hevipedal 
Phrase of the week - I've got a bike. You can ride it if you like.
It's got a basket, a bell that rings and
Things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could, but I borrowed it.
 
51yrs old and Proud of it - Made it to 87kg 2 more to go for the target.
Pedal to Paris Sept 2007

andyBcp · June 2007

One way to approach this is to find a 10mile TT course(as has been mentioned), and ride this to see what speed you can hold over this distance. If you're >20ave.mph at this distance, increase the distance until you find the average drops, then work at holding =>20 ave.mph at the new distance.
Once you get this dialled, change the course for something more challenging.

http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk

portuguese mike · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hevipedal

Remember an increase in average speed from 18 - 20 is a 10% increase in performance - don't expect it overnight.

 Hevipedal 
Phrase of the week - I've got a bike. You can ride it if you like.
It's got a basket, a bell that rings and
Things to make it look good.
I'd give it to you if I could, but I borrowed it.
 
51yrs old and Proud of it - Made it to 87kg 2 more to go for the target.
Pedal to Paris Sept 2007

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Its actually worse that than that as wind resistance increases exponentialy with speed - a quick go on the www.kreuzoter.de website speed and power calculator suggests that to maintain 18mph on the drops takes about 140 watts (170 lb rider, 18 lb bike, no gradient and no wind) and to do 20 mph requires 185 watts which is a wapping 32% increase. Don't know exactly how accurate that is but its interesting none the less.

pm

chriswcp · June 2007

Remember you can buy speed. Have a look at what kit you are using in particular wheels and tyres. If you really want to get to 20 mph average then one simple investment that will get you nearer is a set of tri bars. Also get someone who knows to look at your position on the bike.

I know this advice goes against the jist of your question but if you want something bad enough.

SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

Its one thing riding a pretend 10 on a suitable course, altogether another with a number on your back and the smell of embrocation in your nostrils. You would be surprised how fast you can actually go, but its one hell of an effort that not many can do in training, I know i cant unless its a steep "just about get up it" hill.

As regards effort, the simple mathematical relation ship between power and speed is a squaring of power to a doiubling of speed, i.e. a logarithmic relationship. This is why a small reduction in drag (aero position or wheels etc) has a dramatic effect

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

Phil Scp · June 2007

That was so good you said it twice

SteveR_100Milers · June 2007

Not any more! [:)]

Time! Time! It's always too long and there's never enough!

richardjallen · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chrisw

Remember you can buy speed. Have a look at what kit you are using in particular wheels and tyres. If you really want to get to 20 mph average then one simple investment that will get you nearer is a set of tri bars. Also get someone who knows to look at your position on the bike.

I know this advice goes against the jist of your question but if you want something bad enough.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm sure the cycling fraternity know about that but I don't know any dealers here [;)]

Just j/k. I think I would rather work on the legs and position than make purchases. When I have completely run out of options then I think its the time to buy.

The suggestion of doing increasing distances until I drop below 20 and then working on that is attractive.

richardjallen · June 2007

I think my joke has not gone down too well and I've killed this thread.

I did my 20 mile evening ride today. This time averaged 17 but the head wind was stronger going out and I tried maintaining a easier pace on the way out so I'm not fussed about losing 1mph. Its just a bit of noise as far as I'm concerned.

How do these 'intervals' work? I was reading the other thread about them and can only guess it means a burst of exercise followed by a short break before another burst.

andyBcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by richardjallen

How do these 'intervals' work? I was reading the other thread about them and can only guess it means a burst of exercise followed by a short break before another burst.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You got it[:)]

http://www.teamvelosportif.co.uk

chriswcp · June 2007

Your joke was good, but being a maths teacher and having to say at least twice a year 'today lads we are going to do speed', the joke does get a little tiresome.

Nice try though young man, just try to be a bit more original.[:)]

Saying that, not as bad as teacing probability and the 'two red balls in a bag' question.[:)]

Eat My Dust · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chrisw

Remember you can buy speed. Have a look at what kit you are using in particular wheels and tyres. If you really want to get to 20 mph average then one simple investment that will get you nearer is a set of tri bars. Also get someone who knows to look at your position on the bike.

I know this advice goes against the jist of your question but if you want something bad enough.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Isn't that kind of cheating?

SNAPS

chriswcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chrisw

Remember you can buy speed. Have a look at what kit you are using in particular wheels and tyres. If you really want to get to 20 mph average then one simple investment that will get you nearer is a set of tri bars. Also get someone who knows to look at your position on the bike.

I know this advice goes against the jist of your question but if you want something bad enough.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Isn't that kind of cheating?

SNAPS

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What it's against the rules to put decent tyres on a bike, oh hang on, I'll go and dig out a penny farthing and try to beat 20 on that.[:)]

chuckles · June 2007

No it's not cheating EMD. If you want to go down that route then riding anything other than the most basic heavy push bike is cheating.

You will only ever get so far without addressing wind resistance as this is the main force you will need to overcome in order to break your target speed. Don't forget that it also depends on the route that you are riding, if there are any traffic lights, junctions or rabs etc. then this will impact big time on your average. The best thing for you to do is to join a club that holds regular time trials, you will find that your target of 20 mph is actually pretty easy to beat for even the slowest of riders. 20mph for a 10TT is in fact just 30 minutes.

Check out pictures of time trials in action on the CTT website and try to copy their set ups and positions, this is how you will eventually reach your targets.

Chuckles

blackhands · June 2007

A 10% increase in speed requires a 33% increase in power - all other things being equal. Getting a 33% increase in power takes a lot of work - which is why aerodynamics (body position and aero components) are also v important.

ut_o_cykla · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chrisw

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Eat My Dust

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chrisw

Remember you can buy speed. Have a look at what kit you are using in particular wheels and tyres. If you really want to get to 20 mph average then one simple investment that will get you nearer is a set of tri bars. Also get someone who knows to look at your position on the bike.

I know this advice goes against the jist of your question but if you want something bad enough.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Isn't that kind of cheating?

SNAPS

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What it's against the rules to put decent tyres on a bike, oh hang on, I'll go and dig out a penny farthing and try to beat 20 on that.[:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a vague recollection that penny farthings were actually quite quick... but as I said vague...

pousse moi s'il vous plait

Flying_Monkey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chuckles
your target of 20 mph is actually pretty easy to beat for even the slowest of riders. 20mph for a 10TT is in fact just 30 minutes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is very true... on my lightest bike but without TT bars, my short commute is almost exactly 10 miles, and I regularly do less than 30 minutes even in unfavourable weather conditions, including stops for traffic lights etc. I've barely done more than 2 time trials in my life because they don't interest me (fastest around 25 minutes, but that was a couple of years back). So I put this speed down to:

1. Regularly commuting 10 miles + each way for 5 years now (and often now 20 at the same speed);
2. Using the commute as training (intervals, riding on particular gears etc.);
3. Regular riding with a club;
4. Working regularly at my general fitness and strength - I also run, do a lot of post ride stretches, tai-chi, pilates and free weights for upper body strength (and canoe when I get the chance...);
5. Doing hard sportives at a reasonable pace. If you can get do 100 hilly miles in 6 1/2 hours, doing 10 flatter miles in 30 becomes rather less daunting.

That's just my experience and it isn't remotely designed to make me faster over 10, it just has...

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

chuckles · June 2007

Hi again,

FM, I can see what you are saying and it is all true that a long term fitness regime will grant the biggest benefits. I was more trying to say that on a TT course the OP would not have to deal with more than a rab or two and so would most likely see his average speed break through the 20mph mark immediately.

Chuckles

chriswcp · June 2007

So the whole point is, using avergae speed is pretty pointless as it has too many influences. I can manage 20 for 12 in a tt but I can barely manage it for an hour round where I live, simply because I have to go up hills and the worse one stopping at lights.

Increasing average speed

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