Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

dondare · June 2007

If society relied more on bikes and railways, then it would have roads suitable for bikes and more railway lines. I do not have to thank the motorist for Tarmac roads.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

"In modern English and European systems of jurisprudence and law, a right is the legal or moral entitlement to do or refrain from doing something or to obtain or refrain from obtaining an action, thing or recognition in civil society. Compare with duty, referring to behaviour that is expected or required of the citizen, and with privilege, referring to something that can be conferred and revoked."

Sounds like someone who knows what they're talking about.
It would seem that is something requires a licence or is subject to conditions, then it is a privilege rather than a right.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where's that from though?! If you don't cite the source, it's obvious you've just made it up.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You're just having a laugh, here, aren't you. Picking an indefensible position and mocking those who waste their time trying to show you that you're wrong.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Endorser

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Are they not enforceable?[/br]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No mate - Scottish law is very different to that in England and Wales, and the entire sytstem fo prosecuting cases different too.

In Blihty and Wales there is no statutory power, act, or common law that permits prosecution for simply exceeding a speed limit set at less han 30mph.

Sorry about typing - stepdaughter spilled milkshake over this effing keyboard and it's not been right since!

Taking the moral high ground since 1969
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Half the bloody Goverment's Scottish. How long before we all have to obey Scottish Law?

Baby elephants? Pah!!

The Endorser · June 2007

aye, the PM too soon! Won't be long before we either make England a suburb of Scotland, or they go it lone I reckon.

Taking the moral high ground since 1969

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

If society relied more on bikes and railways, then it would have roads suitable for bikes and more railway lines. I do not have to thank the motorist for Tarmac roads.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well you don't HAVE to say thanks, but it would be polite.

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Are they not enforceable?

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid ... =193492006
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In scotland, yes! And it seems only due to a byelaw brought in by the council. It would appear that in Portsmouth, they're still only asking rather than telling.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, I know it's in Scotland. But it shows that it is possible for them to become enforceable, and so shows promise.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

"In modern English and European systems of jurisprudence and law, a right is the legal or moral entitlement to do or refrain from doing something or to obtain or refrain from obtaining an action, thing or recognition in civil society. Compare with duty, referring to behaviour that is expected or required of the citizen, and with privilege, referring to something that can be conferred and revoked."

Sounds like someone who knows what they're talking about.
It would seem that is something requires a licence or is subject to conditions, then it is a privilege rather than a right.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Where's that from though?! If you don't cite the source, it's obvious you've just made it up.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You're just having a laugh, here, aren't you. Picking an indefensible position and mocking those who waste their time trying to show you that you're wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ha - that's a joke, you're not evey trying to show I'm wrong, you're simply stating it and then not backing it up with anything.
Mister Paul has at least tried. Very weakly, admittedly, but he did try.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Yes, I know it's in Scotland. But it shows that it is possible for them to become enforceable, and so shows promise.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh yes, YES! - a ray of sunshine emerging from the horizon, a golden glimmer of hope, a vision of the promised land!
It's obviously evident that within the next few weeks we are to be visited from above and delivered from evil as the entire country is basqued in a cool blue aura of 20mph speed limits.

The Endorser · June 2007

Oh aye, there mechanisms exist for i to be made law, if enough in government wanted to, provided that any suggested changes aren't contrary to the raft of other rubbish hat Tony B.Liar has is sworn to, such as the European Convention on Human rights.

TBH, with the average motorist being very anti speed enforcement (because the average motorists is usuall pretty guilty!) I can't se a government sticking their necks out for quite some time to come!

And lets be honest, most of th people moaning and wanting such limits are as guilty as the average motorist. Back when I was RPU and we used to run speed checks in the outlying villages, it was pretty typical for about half of those caught to be resident in the village itself. Indeed, on one celebratd ocasion we even caught the head of the residents campaign to stop the speeding motorists. The average motorist (but by no means all) is very much a hypocrite when it comes to speeding down their own street.

Taking the moral high ground since 1969

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

If society relied more on bikes and railways, then it would have roads suitable for bikes and more railway lines. I do not have to thank the motorist for Tarmac roads.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well you don't HAVE to say thanks, but it would be polite.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think you read that one properly Bonj.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

linfordlunchbox · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Endorser

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Are they not enforceable?[/br]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No mate - Scottish law is very different to that in England and Wales, and the entire sytstem fo prosecuting cases different too.

In Blihty and Wales there is no statutory power, act, or common law that permits prosecution for simply exceeding a speed limit set at less han 30mph.

Sorry about typing - stepdaughter spilled milkshake over this effing keyboard and it's not been right since!

Taking the moral high ground since 1969
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Half the bloody Goverment's Scottish. How long before we all have to obey Scottish Law?

Baby elephants? Pah!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have seen this posted by serving police officers on other forums, its not in the statute books yet apparently.

"I'd clean my car with a baby elephant - if I had a baby elephant !"

Mister Paul · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mister Paul

Yes, I know it's in Scotland. But it shows that it is possible for them to become enforceable, and so shows promise.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh yes, YES! - a ray of sunshine emerging from the horizon, a golden glimmer of hope, a vision of the promised land!
It's obviously evident that within the next few weeks we are to be visited from above and delivered from evil as the entire country is basqued in a cool blue aura of 20mph speed limits.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's things like this that make me realise how much I miss my childhood.

__________________________________________________________
What we need is a new, national White Bicycle Plan

The Endorser · June 2007

As an aside, assuming tht all residential/urban areas had rigidly enforced 20mph speed limits, what would be the point of driving a all?

Taking the moral high ground since 1969

Jaded · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Endorser

As an aside, assuming tht all residential/urban areas had rigidly enforced 20mph speed limits, what would be the point of driving a all?

Taking the moral high ground since 1969
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Isn't that part of the point - making people place more consideration on their driving choices, thus reducing their driving overall?

--
[Warning] This post may contain a baby elephant or traces of one

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Endorser

As an aside, assuming tht all residential/urban areas had rigidly enforced 20mph speed limits, what would be the point of driving a all?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Some folk can't walk or travel very far under their own steam, some may need to carry heavy loads, some may need to travel long distances away from public transport links.

There's probably a lot more reasons, but these are the ones that spring to mind first.

PS - Bonj - 'basqued' good word, needs to be used more often!

The Endorser · June 2007

Fair point, but there are also th bone idle lazy that drive half a mile to the school, or the local shop for a paper, or less than a mile to the office,so maybe a lower limit might make them realise it's no worth their while

Taking the moral high ground since 1969

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Endorser

Fair point, but there are also th bone idle lazy that drive half a mile to the school, or the local shop for a paper, or less than a mile to the office,so maybe a lower limit might make them realise it's no worth their while
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hopefully!

dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

Ha - that's a joke, you're not evey trying to show I'm wrong, you're simply stating it and then not backing it up with anything.
Mister Paul has at least tried. Very weakly, admittedly, but he did try.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right

You'll notice that this aticle has been properly researched and gives references. If you want to disagree with it, you'll need to check the references and back up your argument with your own research. It's about time that you did.
Motorists should thank cyclists for the improvements to the roads that made the car a practical means of transportation.
And for the invention of the differential gear.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

Cretin · June 2007

This is an interesting thread considering the level of amazement and disgust shown when a 20mph speed limit was imposed on cyclists in Richmond Park.

I would also ask those who resent private transport how they feel modern society with its excellent lifespan and prospects for most people would be at all possible without the internal combustion engine.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I would also ask those who resent private transport <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's a provocative first post, care to name the people here who display such resentment?

You're presupposing an awful lot there matey.

Cretin · June 2007

I don't care to name them but its fairly obvious to anybody with an open mind that the overall attitude in this thread is hardly encouraging of the use of a private motor car.

Speaking as someone who has 2 bikes and loves driving for both work and pleasure.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right

You'll notice that this aticle has been properly researched and gives references. If you want to disagree with it, you'll need to check the references and back up your argument with your own research. It's about time that you did.
Motorists should thank cyclists for the improvements to the roads that made the car a practical means of transportation.
And for the invention of the differential gear.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well that's slightly better, but where does it say in there that it isn't conditional? Remember you've got to find something that is official AND that backs up what you're saying. Try to keep both those two things in your head at once.

rothbook · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I don't care to name them but its fairly obvious to anybody with an open mind that the overall attitude in this thread is hardly encouraging of the use of a private motor car.

Speaking as someone who has 2 bikes and loves driving for both work and pleasure. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Liar.

dondare · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right

You'll notice that this aticle has been properly researched and gives references. If you want to disagree with it, you'll need to check the references and back up your argument with your own research. It's about time that you did.
Motorists should thank cyclists for the improvements to the roads that made the car a practical means of transportation.
And for the invention of the differential gear.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well that's slightly better, but where does it say in there that it isn't conditional? Remember you've got to find something that is official AND that backs up what you're saying. Try to keep both those two things in your head at once.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Just read the bit that I quoted earlier.
As far as I can tell, you're either a fool or pretending to be one. Either way there's no point in arguing with you any more.

Baby elephants? Pah!!

Cretin · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rothbook

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I don't care to name them but its fairly obvious to anybody with an open mind that the overall attitude in this thread is hardly encouraging of the use of a private motor car.

Speaking as someone who has 2 bikes and loves driving for both work and pleasure. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Liar.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I beg your pardon? Would you like to see pictures of my bikes? Perhaps with a piece of paper that says "Rothbrook is obviously not worth debating with" in each picture? Because it would be easy to do.

The Bosscp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by The Boss

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dondare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right

You'll notice that this aticle has been properly researched and gives references. If you want to disagree with it, you'll need to check the references and back up your argument with your own research. It's about time that you did.
Motorists should thank cyclists for the improvements to the roads that made the car a practical means of transportation.
And for the invention of the differential gear.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well that's slightly better, but where does it say in there that it isn't conditional? Remember you've got to find something that is official AND that backs up what you're saying. Try to keep both those two things in your head at once.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Just read the bit that I quoted earlier.
As far as I can tell, you're either a fool or pretending to be one. Either way there's no point in arguing with you any more.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nope, invalid. Try again. It doesn't back up what you're trying to say.

Unknown · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

I would also ask those who resent private transport how they feel modern society with its excellent lifespan and prospects for most people would be at all possible without the internal combustion engine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I resent overuse/abuse of private motor tranpsort. Not private motor transport on principle, that would be silly and untenable!

Modern society doesn't have an "excellent lifespan and prospects" because of the internal combustion engine, it's due to a huge range of changes within society both technological and behavioural. Even then some of the 'prospects' are since turning out to be detrimental to society as a whole. I'm not going to pretend that the Engine hasn't provided huge benefits, but I'm not going to overlook the huge negative impacts either.

Cretin · June 2007

Personally I don't see that people should have a 'need' to use private motor transport. For myself its an enjoyable pasttime just to drive a car.

Its very difficult to take a complex equation like modern society and attempt to estimate the impact of various technological advances on social wellbeing - but I think its irrefutable that without the internal combustion engine our society as it exists today would be completely unsustainable.

Many people would say that the guns are unnecessary and that they should never have been invented - but without their invention and the need to improve their accuracy and reliability, the industrial revolution might never have happened with the speed or magnitude it did.

Pingucp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cretin

This is an interesting thread considering the level of amazement and disgust shown when a 20mph speed limit was imposed on cyclists in Richmond Park.

I would also ask those who resent private transport how they feel modern society with its excellent lifespan and prospects for most people would be at all possible without the internal combustion engine.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How much noise is generated by a bicycle at 20mph?
How much CO2 is emitted by a bicycle at 20mph?
How many people are killed or injured by bicycles at 20mph?

And the bicycle is private transport, too.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>Wear the fox hat.
Cols d'cosse</center>

Cretin · June 2007

I don't know, not owning a sound level meter.

I don't care to know.

I don't know.

I was referring to motorised transport, obviously.

Portsmouth = 1st city with a blanket 20mph limit

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