Gears for Hill-Climbing

Ferrino · May 2007

My cheapo Decathlon 7.1 road bike has a Shimano 8-speed system (with Sora mechs and shifters) with a Double front chainring thingy. Being my first road bike I was unsure how it would cope on the hills on my recent trip to Spain, but I thought I'd give the Pico de Veleta climb (Sierra Nevada, Spain) a crack (averaging 6.2% gradient over 43km). Although I got as far as I could before snow stopped progress (about 4-5km short of peak), it was very very difficult in the lowest gear, literally mashing away on all but the easiest of gradients, at a very slow cadence.

So I was wondering what type of setup hillclimbers use? I've heard of Triples and Compacts? My current plan is to keep this Decathlon bike for touring and commuting and then buy a spunkier bike, which I would like to use to attack hills with and for club rides. What type of gear setup should I be looking for to achieve this compromise?

Many thanks!

peejay78 · May 2007

i always thought it's odd that the entry level decathlon road bike has a pretty standard road double on it.

but then again, very good for you, gets you fit. i've never looked back and stayed on the double ever since, even for some evil hills.

with the double i got better and better and now i find it fairly straightforward to get into a rhythm.
lots of comments will follow this one saying "blah blah triple compact blah".

winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv

ceedeecp · May 2007

"blah blah triple compact blah".

Im not sying anything. [;)]

FrankK · June 2007

Change the cassette to something like 11-28 or greater. Other than that go compact, that way you don't have to change shifters.
Don't be afraid to buy a triple just because some prat says they don't look right. It's about getting up the hills not saying how pretty your bike is from a chair outside a Cafe.

peejay78 · June 2007

see? "blah blah triple compact"

"they don't look right"

triples are ugly, they spoil the lines of your bike, they are a big, spinny excuse to not work hard, the lower gears are so much gears as teeny tiny increments that advance your bike one millimetre for every seven revolutions of the pedals. there is none of the rhythm that comes from pushing hard on a double on a fearsome hill and moving forwards at something above 2mph. you won't feel any increase in fitness because you'll continually undergear in the same way that many people overgear when they first get a bicycle. any sense of achievement will be negated by the knowledge that you slipped down through all 89 gears beforehand and at each pedalstoke practically lifted the front wheel off the ground.

and if all else fails, you can sit on a chair outside a cafe, sipping your macchiato, safe in the knowledge that your bike looks as good as you do, and it's not quite time to join the CTC yet.

oh, and realistically, how many times do you hit the heights of spain, and how are you going to "to attack hills...on a spunkier bike" without an assertive double?
[;)]

winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv

simbil1 · June 2007

Ferrino,
The truth is that you don't need to have misplaced macho pride and ride the same gears that Lance does. Get the gearing that suits your style and fitness. Personally, I don't like pedalling lower than 60rpm and that means a compact is my choice for cycling around the North Downs. Over gearing up hill is a sure way to get your knees injured.

http://picasaweb.google.com/thefirstsimbil/Bikes

Ferrino · June 2007

Thanks for the posts! Can someone please tell me what the gearing on a typical Double bike is? ie. no. of teeth on front 2 cogs and range of teeth on rear cassette? I think my lowest gear is 42:28 (42 teeth on front and 28 teeth at rear). Should I be able to get a decent cadence on hills with that (say up to 10% gradients)? I found that when up off the saddle this gear was fine for the steep bits of the climb I did, but when I needed to get back to the saddle in between, I was really mashing slowly.

peterbr · June 2007

You could certainly fit a longer cage deraillieur (e.g. Deore) and an MTB-style cassette and still have it work with the rest of your Sora set-up. It's easy enough to change this back and forth depending on the terrain.

I generally use a road cassette on my Kaffenback but can switch to a 12-32 or 12-34 for hills (we have a few here in Switzerland).

<hr noshade size="1">
Elephants - where were they when we were fighting the nazis? Eh? Eh?

msb123 · June 2007

'typical' road double is 53/39 at the front. 'typical' compact is 50/34 or 50/36

at the back, 12-23, 12-25 and 12-27 are all possibilities; you can go bigger but may need a long cage rear mech, as peterbr has pointed out

alecstilleyedye · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peejay78

see? "blah blah triple compact"

"they don't look right"

triples are ugly, they spoil the lines of your bike, they are a big, spinny excuse to not work hard, the lower gears are so much gears as teeny tiny increments that advance your bike one millimetre for every seven revolutions of the pedals. there is none of the rhythm that comes from pushing hard on a double on a fearsome hill and moving forwards at something above 2mph. you won't feel any increase in fitness because you'll continually undergear in the same way that many people overgear when they first get a bicycle. any sense of achievement will be negated by the knowledge that you slipped down through all 89 gears beforehand and at each pedalstoke practically lifted the front wheel off the ground.

and if all else fails, you can sit on a chair outside a cafe, sipping your macchiato, safe in the knowledge that your bike looks as good as you do, and it's not quite time to join the CTC yet.

oh, and realistically, how many times do you hit the heights of spain, and how are you going to "to attack hills...on a spunkier bike" without an assertive double?
[;)]

winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">well i use a triple as an insurance policy against running out of gears on the 42 chainring. big mig used to occasionally use one on his bike for the same purpose so if what i'm doing is not good enough for the snobbier roadies, neither is that of a 5 times tdf winner.
makes me laugh, the people who ride on expensive campag record equipped bikes and moan when it needs replacing. you wouldn't drive colin mcrea's subaru to the office (if you did you'd knacker it in a very short space of time), so why spend a fortune on the stuff the pros use (because of it's lightness) which they chuck away after a race or two (because it is not designed for durability) just because it's what the pros use. why listen to what these people have to say on the matter?

if i had a better signature, i'd use that instead

sloboy · June 2007

It's not so much the steepness of hills that will get you as the length. So I find it easy to get up a short 15% hill in good old blighty with a 39-25 bottom gear, whereas the mighty Tourmalet (average maybe 6-7%, top slope no more than 10-11% ish maybe) had me crying like a girl on a triple.

As alec-t-e-d points out the big names use the appropriate gears. IIRC Team CSC run compacts on mountain stages for example.

In my perfect world, I suppose I'd have a compact, maybe with a choice of rings. As it is, in my imperfect world, I can cobble together a long mech, 11-32/34 rear cassette type bodge with bits off my MTB.

JWSurrey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simbil1

Ferrino,
....Get the gearing that suits your style and fitness....compact....North Downs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
North Downs
50 miles
Close on 5,000ft of climb
Campag. Veloce Compact 50/34
13-29 rear sprocket
Medium cage deureilleur.

www.sheldonbrown.com/gears - dial in your choices - It's close to being as good as a triple.

I still walked the last 100ft up to King Alfred's Tower on the Tour of Wessex last weekend, [:I] and cursed for not buying a triple - You don't *have* to use the granny ring - pedalling up still beats walking up/dabbing!

nun · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by msb123

'typical' road double is 53/39 at the front. 'typical' compact is 50/34 or 50/36

at the back, 12-23, 12-25 and 12-27 are all possibilities; you can go bigger but may need a long cage rear mech, as peterbr has pointed out
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Some compacts are now comming with 48/34 combos as the smallest ring you can put on a 110BCD is a 34. Most double FD can be made to work with a compact, but there are some nice specialist ones now like the IRD one. On the back, rear derailleurs are more particular about the size of the cassette, you can go to a 27,28 or even highter, up to 34, if you use a MTB derailleur like an XT.

If you get a 110/74 triple you can set it up in lots of ways with whatever triple or double ring combos you can think of.

peejay78 · June 2007

my longer reponse was fairly tongue in cheek, initially to frankk's scathing criticism of people who don't use triples ("prat", and realistically, how many normal people who can't back it up have you met pontificating about the aesthetics of double over triple anyway?) and also in anticipation of the self-regarding spiel to come about epic long mountains and the need for triples.

but really, it's horses for course, i acknowledge that - but if you really are intent on "attacking" hills (read the OP, old-man triple-fans) you're probably best off with a double. there is variation, yes.

if you plan on riding all over the alps again, switch to a triple or compact beforehand. i can't think of many other occasions when you might need it.

as for the tactical variations and gearing choices of indurain, do they have ANY connnection whatsoever to the kind of riding any of use ever do, or the kind of bikes we use? probably not.

i advise you to stay with the double, your next bike will have a ten speed cassette - it'll give you all the variation you need.

simbil1 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JWSurrey

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simbil1

Ferrino,
....Get the gearing that suits your style and fitness....compact....North Downs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
North Downs
50 miles
Close on 5,000ft of climb
Campag. Veloce Compact 50/34
13-29 rear sprocket
Medium cage deureilleur.

www.sheldonbrown.com/gears - dial in your choices - It's close to being as good as a triple.

I still walked the last 100ft up to King Alfred's Tower on the Tour of Wessex last weekend, [:I] and cursed for not buying a triple - You don't *have* to use the granny ring - pedalling up still beats walking up/dabbing!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, there are climbs and then there are climbs around here. My lunchtime loop takes me round St.Marthas hill and over to Shamley Green up to Farley green and back round St.Marthas. 50=34 12=26 gets me around that OK. I havent tried the harder climbs on the south side of Winterfold yet, they may leave me wishing for a triple!

http://picasaweb.google.com/thefirstsimbil/Bikes

IanTrcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simbil1

Well, there are climbs and then there are climbs around here. My lunchtime loop takes me round St.Marthas hill and over to Shamley Green up to Farley green and back round St.Marthas. 50=34 12=26 gets me around that OK. I havent tried the harder climbs on the south side of Winterfold yet, they may leave me wishing for a triple!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They may indeed! Have you tried the nice climbs up to Ranmore Common - Combe Lane and White Down? I managed to spin my way up Combe Lane yesterday evening without getting out of the saddle. Not sure why, but that's been a goal of mine for a little while.

Funnily enough, I'm not sure that the extra gear(s) available on a triple genuinely provide that much assistance. I have a triple which goes gown to 30-27 (29.2") and have recently bought a new bike with a compact which "only" goes down to 34-27 (33.1") - a difference of 4" or 13%. One interesting observation is that the triple only gets me the one lower gear. I was worried that I'd struggle on climbs like White Down because I have always needed to use 30-27 on the triple equipped bike. What I have found in practice is that 34-27 on the compact is ok because my climbing speed is a little higher. So, whilst it's easier to sit back and spin with the triple, one side effect is that the suffering goes on for longer! For me, this trade-off has been ok and I've not yet failed to get up anything on 34-27.

Enjoy your riding in the Surrey Hills. It's a great place to b able to get out for a lunchtime loop!

simbil1 · June 2007

White down doesn't ring any bells - where abouts is that one? Combe lane is great - I kid myself that its like an Alpine climb when you go around the sharp bend towards the top

I think the Winterfold ones are harder though - especially the straight section on Barhatch Lane (north out of Cranleigh).
I've done a lot of the climbs between Guildford and Dorking on and off road - albeit on a mountain bike until recently.
The Surrey tour of the hills was a great ride to take in a few of the choice climbs.
I'm hoping to crack them all on my compact sooner or later.

http://picasaweb.google.com/thefirstsimbil/Bikes

IanTrcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simbil1

White down doesn't ring any bells - where abouts is that one? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

From the bottom of Combe Lane on the A25 continue toward Dorking for about 3km. Turn left when Raikes Lane joins the A25 from the right. White Down has its own hairpin, like Combe lane but right handed, and passes an 18% sign en route to a steep finish.

Here's my data on some of the local treats...

Combe Lane 102m ascent in 1.46km = 7% average
White Down 90m ascent in 0.80km = 11.25% average (18% section signed)
Tanhurst Lane 95m ascent in 1.01km = 9.4% average
Barhatch Lane 114m ascent in 1.00km = 11.4% average (21% section signed)

Of these, I personally find White Down causes the most pain!

Sorry for slight post hijack!

JWSurrey · June 2007

Ian, got a good route from Woking to Shere?
Have to admit I start my ride at Shere. Can't be done with the traffic infested route from the house.

This one's my N.Downs morning special...
Shere, south to the windmill near Pitch Hill.
Sharp left turn/hairpin and descend to Peaslake (gravel corner).
Stop for bananas/beer/breather.
Climb out of Peaslake towards Holmbury St. Mary (towards Hurtwood House)
Left to Holmbury S.M.
Wiggle over staggered X-road and up to Abinger Common.
Leith Hill Road
Coldharbour to Dorking
Ranmore Hill
Denbies
Westhumble
Box Hill
Brockham
Newdigate
Capel
Either return via Ockley, or take in the monster hill at Wigmore.
c.5,000ft

Variations - the 1:3 on Sheep House Lane at Wotton then across to the pub on Abinger Common (1:5) is my current nemesis.

Thanks for pointing out White Downs - Will vary my route via Abinger Common.

nun · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by IanTr

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by simbil1

Well, there are climbs and then there are climbs around here. My lunchtime loop takes me round St.Marthas hill and over to Shamley Green up to Farley green and back round St.Marthas. 50=34 12=26 gets me around that OK. I havent tried the harder climbs on the south side of Winterfold yet, they may leave me wishing for a triple!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They may indeed! Have you tried the nice climbs up to Ranmore Common - Combe Lane and White Down? I managed to spin my way up Combe Lane yesterday evening without getting out of the saddle. Not sure why, but that's been a goal of mine for a little while.

Funnily enough, I'm not sure that the extra gear(s) available on a triple genuinely provide that much assistance. I have a triple which goes gown to 30-27 (29.2") and have recently bought a new bike with a compact which "only" goes down to 34-27 (33.1") - a difference of 4" or 13%. One interesting observation is that the triple only gets me the one lower gear. I was worried that I'd struggle on climbs like White Down because I have always needed to use 30-27 on the triple equipped bike. What I have found in practice is that 34-27 on the compact is ok because my climbing speed is a little higher. So, whilst it's easier to sit back and spin with the triple, one side effect is that the suffering goes on for longer! For me, this trade-off has been ok and I've not yet failed to get up anything on 34-27.

Enjoy your riding in the Surrey Hills. It's a great place to b able to get out for a lunchtime loop!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Triples don't necessarily have 30t as the smallest chain ring. 110/74 triples, much beloved of loaded tourists, can accomodate a 24t ring so 48/36/24 combos are often used. The old TA Zephyr crank let you go down to a 20t ring which is in MTB territory. In fact its often interesting to see how the combos of road and MTB equipment can extend the utility of a bike. However, I just can't bring myself to put a 4 arm crank on my road bike.

Ferrino · June 2007

Thanks for all the posts. I think my next purchase is going to have a Compact double

IanTrcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JWSurrey

Ian, got a good route from Woking to Shere?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Old Woking Road toward West Byfleet
Right into Pyrford Common Road
Newark Lane to Ripley (past the ruined church)
Rose Lane
Right into Hungry Hill Lane
Ripley Road to East Clandon
Straight across the A246 and up Staple Lane (where my club holds its Hill Climb)
Down Combe Lane - you know this already
Across the A25 into Upper Street and Shere

Perhaps we should have a dedicated Surrey Hills thread? There seem to be plenty here who ride around in the area.

peejay78 · June 2007

compact double - best of both worlds, no compromise on aesthetics either.

winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv

2191flint · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by peejay78

compact double - best of both worlds, no compromise on aesthetics either.

winter: http://tinyurl.com/2xkbbs
summer: http://tinyurl.com/2hsagv
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Seconded[8D] Nothing worse IMHO than a triple on a road bike, just does not look right.

A turkey is just for Christmas, not for life.

Me and my bike- http://aolpictures.aol.co.uk/galleries/flintosaur9/

Ferrino · June 2007

Out of interest, what would you need to change in order to substitute a compact double chainset for a traditional double chainset? Currently have 8-speed Shimano gears, shifters, derailleurs etc. Would it work with my current chain, front shifter and front derailleur?

Garybee · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ferrino

Out of interest, what would you need to change in order to substitute a compact double chainset for a traditional double chainset? Currently have 8-speed Shimano gears, shifters, derailleurs etc. Would it work with my current chain, front shifter and front derailleur?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

All you'd need to do is shorten the chain, bottom bracket to fit chainset (your current one will be fine if you buy the correct chainset) and adjust the front mech.

Hypocrisy is only a bad thing in other people.

Ferrino · June 2007

Thanks. Well I've spotted a brand new compact chainset (inc. new bottom bracket) with 50/34T for œ50 delivered:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alloy-Compact-Race-Bike-Chainset-Bottom-Bracket_W0QQitemZ140123572314QQihZ004QQcategoryZ109118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I am guessing that I would need some sort of special tools to remove the old bottom bracket and fit the new one (which I would like to do even if I can reuse the old one as lots of people have complained about the Decathlon BB and there does seem to be some play in mine) and then shorten the chain. I wonder how much a LBS would charge to fit the chainset for me?

Is this chainset definitely compatible with an 8-speed chain?

And can you not just swap the small chainring on a traditional double to a smaller one like the 34-tooth one on a compact, instead of chainging the entire crankset?

John C. · June 2007

Are your old ones 175mm long ? what BB do they use ? do your self a favour and leave them alone, try spa cycles http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 2b0s72p120 give them a ring and you won't go far wrong. They sell stronglight chainsets and the cheapest compact got a recomended rating in cyling + test.
If you do end up buying a new bike , get a tripple and you will have a lot more options

http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/index.asp

He who spins lasts longest

JWSurrey · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by IanTr

Old Woking Road....
Perhaps we should have a dedicated Surrey Hills thread? There seem to be plenty here who ride around in the area.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Ian - Will run it through Memory Map to the GPS.
My 5,000ft starting at Shere was quite enough this weekend though!
Hoping to do the Highclere 72 this w/e.
Yup - Good idea on the thread - Might stick one in "ride" if you don't get there first.
Which club?

J.

IanTrcp · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JWSurrey

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by IanTr

Old Woking Road....
Perhaps we should have a dedicated Surrey Hills thread? There seem to be plenty here who ride around in the area.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Ian - Will run it through Memory Map to the GPS.
My 5,000ft starting at Shere was quite enough this weekend though!
Hoping to do the Highclere 72 this w/e.
Yup - Good idea on the thread - Might stick one in "ride" if you don't get there first.
Which club?

J.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Send me an email to ian_dot_trevers_a_t_btinternet_dot_com and I'll send you a Memory map route file which starts with this.

I'm also entered for the Highclere 72, but - due to the early arrival of my newborn son last Saturday - am unlikely to make it...!

Club is Charlotteville although I haven't been out with them recently having done a short stack of early season sportives.

freddered · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JWSurrey

Ian, got a good route from Woking to Shere?
Have to admit I start my ride at Shere. Can't be done with the traffic infested route from the house.

This one's my N.Downs morning special...
Shere, south to the windmill near Pitch Hill.
Sharp left turn/hairpin and descend to Peaslake (gravel corner).
Stop for bananas/beer/breather.
Climb out of Peaslake towards Holmbury St. Mary (towards Hurtwood House)
Left to Holmbury S.M.
Wiggle over staggered X-road and up to Abinger Common.
Leith Hill Road
Coldharbour to Dorking
Ranmore Hill
Denbies
Westhumble
Box Hill
Brockham
Newdigate
Capel
Either return via Ockley, or take in the monster hill at Wigmore.
c.5,000ft

Variations - the 1:3 on Sheep House Lane at Wotton then across to the pub on Abinger Common (1:5) is my current nemesis.

Thanks for pointing out White Downs - Will vary my route via Abinger Common.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

1:3 at Sheephouse Lane? A one in three???!!!!

Is this a famous Cycling climb? (or is it?)

33% ?????? !!!!!!!

Shurely Shome Mishtake Mish Moneypenny

Gears for Hill-Climbing

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